mimi66

Akane Takada...Fedelico Bonelli's DW...

Michelle, perhaps you could post the link to the video showing what you call "a grande jete landing on demi-pointe", so we can all see what you are talking about? thank you.

No, not wasted at all, Fiz. You are still dancing, remember?

A word of caution. The word "intermediate" or "advanced" level does not necessarily mean the impression those words give in plain English in London ballet studios, particularly for adult drop - in class. When you look at the level guidance, see what level class comes after beginners/beginners+ level. Most London studio uses "elementary" to mean "intermediate". In such studios," intermediate" are actually "advanced". The level descriptions given by some of the studios are not really helpful, so it is better not to rely on them. From what you have written, I think a class described as "general" is a safe bet to start with...

I fear that even if the theatres and cinemas set up the rules, there will always be someone who says " but i didin't know that!" "but it wasn't pointed out to me!" or just start arguing about the correct intertretation of certain word or sentence... XXX vs the Royal Opera House will start to clogg the courts for much joy of legal adversors (...this is a joke ). Well, I hope good old commonsense will win the war in the end...

Found a link to "making of " that Baileys 2013 Christmas ads. A lot goes into what ends up just over 2 min...

Ah, I hate that, too! Then there are another one. When I rang to check internet connection (which were dodgy), first thing I was told to upgrade to optical fiber-line. Well, I happened to know that it was not yet available in my street. Beside, I called so that my problem is fixed, not to be sold another products (which isn't even available).

I think most ballet classes are welcoming to newcomers (to the class), so long as they do not cause danger to others, due to the level at which that particular class is operating. And I have never seen age being an issue, either. It's really about people exercising their commonsense and common courtesy. "Mixed-ability" class is normally understood to be a class which limit its scope from basic (sometimes absolute) beinners upto RAD grade 5 level. So, it is "everyone welcome" open class, but not where "everyone operates to the maximum of their level" class. Other than those who are new to ballet, there is an understanding that there will be a lot of beginners. This is why the class works - becuase those more experenced defer to fellow learners whe are still new to ballet in those settings. More experienced dancers are aware of common "blind spots" and less developed spatial awareness of those less experienced dancers. They anticipate and give enough space so that the less experenced dancers will not become a danger. If a less experience dancers (without realising - that is normally the case) encroach another dancers' space or generally just lost control, the more experienced dancers will adjust to avoid the danger. Ballet is so much more than just learning steps... being able to dance with other people is also very important, and this skill alone takes more than just a few years of experience. I must say that in the last 5 years or so, I seem to see more people who demands support and consideration from those around them becuase they for whatever reason have not yet reached the level of that certain class, ("I paid the same money as every one, I should get my money's worth"), but refuse to put in much effort on their part. They tend to complain about not understanding some specific terms or conventionaly used terms in ballet without actually doing a bit of research themselves. Worse, having asked other people for a quick answer, then do not like what is being said and get upset, then accuse others for being "elitist" or "not using layperson's terms.". They don't seem to show any consideration about spacing and other ballet classroom conventions, oblivious to what others around them are doing. I wonder if those mature adults new learners somewhat lost or forgot humbleness that most discipline require at the beginning (and beyond), and which their younger counterparts somewhat still remember?

I was told I have a very flexible hip (for my age as well, I guess). The thing is I am not strong enough to be able to use the maximun range...yet... It is a typical case of "it is not what you've got, but how you use them". ....on my way to my class...

and my non-DH has beautiful feet with high arch - just like those seen in Botticelli's paintings (I believe his models were dancers..). I wish I had them instead, as my non-DH doesn't need them (for dance!).

So, here is a few of mine. I have longish but not too long arms and good width shoulder. Which gives me a bit moral booster when I work on my port de bras. I also seem to have long-ish achilles tendon - comes in handy as I love jumps...

We tend to moan about what we see as "not ideal for ballet" bits of our physical selves - feet, shapes of legs, turn out, flexibility, body proportions, [fill in the blank]. I know even professional ballet dancers do this from time to time. Indeed, the shopping list for desirable physical attributes for ballet dancers are so very long. But I had an "eureka" moment the other day. The long and endless list of desirable phsycal attributes mean that we are all born with at least one or two bits of those desirable features! I thought it might be fun to find and share those ballerina/ballerino bits in us or our DCs, in a very light-hearted way... Please limit your list for purely physical attributes - I know things like musicality, spatial awareness, logical mind also are important part, but for now please refrain from including them.

thewinelake,I agree with your insight and also love the suggested solution! I sense that there is a culture change that is affecting not just the young but also those old enough to know better. Many people nowadays seem to go by the philosophy "I can do whatever I like until and unless someone in the position of authority will tell me off", and just gave up giving good old common sense consideration to those around them... to me just brain lazy and lacking imagination...

How relevant is RAD (or BBO or ISTD) vocational grades to acutually getting a place in vocational schools now? My understanding was the old days you had to have passed intermediate (now advanced1) as a minimum requirement, but is this still the case? Just curious... and I wondered if this might have anything to do with RAD vocational exams somewhat becamer less demanding about "desireable physique"?

A bit late voting, but I also prefer split sole. When I just went back to ballet I needed every confident boosters available - my feet aren't really classical dancers' feet - and it worked!

Well, judging from some of the reaction here, I now understand why dance studios and ballet teachers shy away from trying to describe their class levels in more detailed and helpful way.... You just can't describe the level of the class without upsetting some people who then launch onto how they should be conisdered whatever level they consider themselves are. I have certainly seen, over the years, many people who argued with studios reception and teachers trying to justify how "they" should be able to attend the class they want to attend when the level descriptions were given to them. While these people are in no way representating most adult ballet learners' behaviour, I am sure what I have seen was only a tip of an iceberg, also. I think people on this board are just trying to be helpful to those who wants to get the feel of the class descriptions currently used, so that they can choose the most effective way of learning ballet. Most people do not want to turn up to classes which are beyond their current capacity, not only because they are being considerate and mindful to think what impact their presence might have to other dancers in the same class but also they want to find an environment where they can learn most effectively. balletfanatic, I am surprised that people you mentioned came back to the class after having tried for the first time. The old intermediate level (now Advanced) is very difficult that it would not be so difficult to see whether it was the suitable level for them or not after the barre, even if they had very little experience of ballet... This is why, even video clip of the class wouldn't necessarily help... I have come across with a few individuals who thought the advaced level class she participated was "at the same level as elementary class"... and someof them were dancing less than 2 years then. Then again, I think they are exceptions rather than the norm.

A surprise breakfast in bed! OK, just a couple of croissants and espresso on a tray, but served up by my hubby, complete with my favourite sunday paper...bliss... I can certainly get used to this...

Oops, I meant to say that the elementary class in the studios attracts many MT students and Royal Ballet dancers...etc. Just to clarify.

Yes, that is the case. The studios I mentioned have many MT students, dancers of other discipline (jazz etc). I also ran into Royal Ballet dancers many times. I have not been to those classes for quite a while now, but as the teachers are still the same, and from what I hear from the grapevine, it still seems to be the case.

terpsichore, normally ballet class are "billed" as it is called - so if someone says "intermediate class" that is the name of the class. Also, the latter part of your post (not reproduced here) was uncalled for. I can see how hurt you are and I am sorry that you were made to feel that way, but this is second time you mention these people on this forum in a short space of time, plus this time you brought their mothers and grandmothers into it. I do worry that from what you have written those people are very easily identifiable and after all still just teenagers, young enough to be your granddaughters.... They, or their family could be reading this thread and not able to post to defend themselves here.

I totally agree with yout hat it is not about the knowledge of steps but "how" one excutes them. However, I think it is even more difficult for adult beginners to know the quality of the steps being executed, or even the way one stands. It often takes at least a few years' experience even to realise that ballet is not about how hight one's leg go up or how many times one can turn... I tried to show that under the "beginner" banner, there are at least 4 different stages. Also I hoped that if someone reading it did not know what is brisee or fouette, or don't know how to do them, then at least they know that they are not ready for and "intermediate" or "general" class yet.

terpsichore, I think it is most likely that the class balletfanatic mentioned in her post was billed as "Intermediate". If it was billed as "general", then I could see some confusion that you referred to might have happened. but as balletfanatic says "intermediate class", I think we should take her (?) word for it. And "mixed-ability" calss are "beginners" level class anyways, so there is nothing wrong for the absolute (or near absolute) beginners turning up. I am really sorry to that you felt the looks of pity and contempt from your classmates. But you also mentioned that the ballet teacher teaching that class was a very good teacher. Well, normally good teacher would not let those things happen. So I wonder perhaps, those girls gave you a glance because you were (without realising) perhaps encroaching their space or by mistake placed yourself in front of them? May be those looks were signs those girls sent hoping you might notice...

I think post-beginner class levels are roughly the the same as RAD vocational grades level, except "advanced" class would be for advanced (1). I suspect Intermediate Foundation to be the upper end of beginners+ level... There are still a lot of studios (Pineapple, Danceworks to name a few) where they use old RAD vocational grade names to indicate the class level. - Elementary (now RAD Intermediate) - Intermediate (now RAD Advanced1) - Advanced (now RAD Advanced 2). This creates even more confusion...

...or this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnj9uwIGwi8

As some people seem to have such an avertion towards the word "beginner" used in ballet, I shall attempt to write my humble opinion about what "beginners" actually mean in ballet terms (in the UK). It is based purly from my personal experience of adult open class as a (perpecutal) student of ballet. I hope others, particularly those who went through vocational training or ballet teachers would add or correct what I write here. Most beginner's level open (as in drop -in) classes don't really cater for people who has never done ballet before, unless it is specificaly billed as absolute beginners class. What stands for "beginners' level " in ballet would be broken roughly into:- 1) absolute beginners (no ballet experience whatsoever) 2) basic beginners 3) beginners ( current trend of calling this leve is "improvers") 4) beginners+ (or advanced beginners) From my experience, what would normally be billed as "beginners" class in open class setting would cater for 1), 2) and 3) above. Not at all ideal, but in order for the class to be viable (even in a big cities like London) it is probably necessary. A "Mixed-ability class" generally refers to a class which would cater for all 1) to 4) above, and not to be confused with a "General" class which generally caters for "Elementary" level class upwards. In "General " class one is not expected to be taught "new steps" or "new tricks", as it were. One shold already know most of ballet steps, including travelling turns and jumps by then. ( OK, may be Italian fouette or Russian Pas de Chats are exception... but then they are a bit like combining the steps one alreday knows) . I can say from my experience, it was taken for granted that , in an "elementary" or "general" class, you should already know steps like fouette or brisee - even though your execution may not be quite there yet. Also you should be able to pick up given enchainemants in the centre with a few marks on each side (most of the time). So, by the time one is at "beginners+" level, one has already achieved a lot. There are a lot of variations and group dances from classical repatoire which can be danced by beginners+ level dancer with little adoptation. It may be frustrating for those new to ballet to be in "beginners" class for years, but ballet is that difficult. And this is why in ballet world noone look down on "beginners" because we all know how much dedication ballet takes at all levels of journey. Besides, there is no point trying to window dress one's ability in a ballet class. Everyone can tell (perhaps not, if you are still new to ballet) roughly how much you can dance just by looking at the way you walk into the class, and stand to take position at the barre. And by "look" I don't mean being thin and/or young-ish. Editied to say; - I have been to some "generel" class which were more "beginners+" level, because of the "customer base" of that class. However these classes have a tendency to turn back into "general" class if more capable dancers happen to turn up. Shouldn't happen, but, well, it's better to have a class than no class. Also for the reason I wrote above, beginners+ class will not short change dancers more advanced.