RAD Grade 7

[balletbean]

As if the audition season and lead up to GCSE mocks isn’t stressful enough, my DD takes her RAD Grade 7 on Friday.

 

Any hints & tips from those that have recently taken the exam. 

She’s on her own (so no comparison) but only took her Grade 6 in June. Grade 7 appears completely different to the other lower grades. 

Thank you. 

[beaglemum]

No tips but only taking from June until now to be exam ready?

[taxi4ballet]

22 minutes ago, beaglemum said:

No tips but only taking from June until now to be exam ready?

If you're doing a lot of hours and already working at/above that level, then it shouldn't be a problem to do it. It's a nice 'dancey' grade as well.

[Pups_mum]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

If you're doing a lot of hours and already working at/above that level, then it shouldn't be a problem to do it. It's a nice 'dancey' grade as well.

I agree, it's definitely do-able. My DD  learned grade 7 in 6 weeks. She had been doing her Intermediate over the summer whilst the rest of her peer group were working on grade 7, but she didn't want to get left behind and decided to give it a go. She said there was no new technique for her to learn, it was more a matter of learning the dances. Admittedly she was less secure than for any of her other exams but she did get a distinction, albeit not by a huge margin.

Personally, I think grade 7 was my favourite of the exams she did. I loved the music choices, and as you say, it's very "dancey" whereas a lot of the other grades seemed to be mainly quite repetitive technical exercises. Speaking as a non dancer, I would say grade 7 gave the most opportunity to actually perform, and my advice to the OP's daughter would be to dance like she was performing on stage, not in an exam studio.

[beaglemum]

The reason I sound so surprised is that my DD is grade 6 doing 5 hours of ballet ( plus others) a week and has been told she isn’t exam ready as she needs to have been doing that grade for a year minimum. She also does foundation, tap, modern, lyrical and stretch too 

11 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

If you're doing a lot of hours and already working at/above that level, then it shouldn't be a problem to do it. It's a nice 'dancey' grade as well.

 

[taxi4ballet]

5 hours ago, beaglemum said:

The reason I sound so surprised is that my DD is grade 6 doing 5 hours of ballet ( plus others) a week and has been told she isn’t exam ready as she needs to have been doing that grade for a year minimum. She also does foundation, tap, modern, lyrical and stretch too 

 

Well that is probably the teacher's decision - some of them insist that you have to spend a specific amount of time in a certain grade, irrespective of whether you could be ready to take the exam sooner. They like them to stay with the same cohort. Other teachers will let students overlap grades and study more than one at a time - and encourage them to take exams as soon as they are ready.

[Pointetoes]

DD spent 18 months on Grade 6 but did Grade 7 within 6 months and the same with Grade 8. She took her Intermediate in between grade 7 and 8. We were always told Grade 6 is an enormous syllabus compared to grades 7 and 8. Her school put them in for exams when they are ready regardless of others in the class and most of them also do tap, modern, contemporary, commercial and musical theatre. So as already said it does vary from school to school and pupil to pupil. The one thing to remember is is it isn’t a race, grades are stepping stones in life the same way as GCSEs, A levels, Diploma or degrees are. 

[balletbean]

10 hours ago, Pointetoes said:

DD spent 18 months on Grade 6 but did Grade 7 within 6 months and the same with Grade 8. She took her Intermediate in between grade 7 and 8. We were always told Grade 6 is an enormous syllabus compared to grades 7 and 8. Her school put them in for exams when they are ready regardless of others in the class and most of them also do tap, modern, contemporary, commercial and musical theatre. So as already said it does vary from school to school and pupil to pupil. The one thing to remember is is it isn’t a race, grades are stepping stones in life the same way as GCSEs, A levels, Diploma or degrees are. 

Sounds similar to us. Grade 6 takes a standard 2yr to complete before exam. DD took the exam in June and has just returned home after her Grade 7 exam. Teacher just announced Grade 8 next summer! Squeezing them all in. 😳

[Pups_mum]

Another consideration is the fact that different people learn differently. My DD tends to pick things up quickly and then plateaus. Once she's reached that point, the improvement slows right down. In fact if she spends too long on something I think she actually starts getting worse again. I'm much the same (not regarding dance - just generally). Other people seems to learn in a more linear way, starting off more slowly, but continuing to get better and better with time the longer they practice a particular task, ultimately probably exceeding the skill level attained by someone who learns like me or my DD, but needing more time to get there.

I think a good teacher will take that into consideration. There certainly isn't a one size fits all answer to how long any particular grade should take.

[youngatheart]

It also depends on whether the class is being taught the entire syllabus and then each student gets to choose their preferred options to present in the exam, or whether the teacher decides which dance etc they will be doing and only teaches that one.

 

Personally I much prefer option A, because different dances suit different people, that is the whole point of offering the choice, but in schools with limited class time this may simply not be practical.

[balletbean]

46 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

Another consideration is the fact that different people learn differently. My DD tends to pick things up quickly and then plateaus. Once she's reached that point, the improvement slows right down. In fact if she spends too long on something I think she actually starts getting worse again. I'm much the same (not regarding dance - just generally). Other people seems to learn in a more linear way, starting off more slowly, but continuing to get better and better with time the longer they practice a particular task, ultimately probably exceeding the skill level attained by someone who learns like me or my DD, but needing more time to get there.

I think a good teacher will take that into consideration. There certainly isn't a one size fits all answer to how long any particular grade should take.

That's interesting as I thought that RAD had a detailed list somewhere of how many recommended  'training hours' per grade a pupil should train for each exam. But then I agree with you looking at others there does appear to be quite a difference between how well some pickup the syllabus compared to others. A fixed time may well not work for some. I think my DD thrives on being pushed. (I say that before the results come through :)!!!  

Thank you it's always interesting to hear others views and experience. We can all so easily get caught up in our little bubble (studio).  

[Nicola H]

4 hours ago, balletbean said:

That's interesting as I thought that RAD had a detailed list somewhere of how many recommended  'training hours' per grade a pupil should train for each exam. But then I agree with you looking at others there does appear to be quite a difference between how well some pickup the syllabus compared to others. A fixed time may well not work for some. I think my DD thrives on being pushed. (I say that before the results come through :)!!!  

Thank you it's always interesting to hear others views and experience. We can all so easily get caught up in our little bubble (studio).  

The specification of contact hours,  self study hours and so on in qualifications comes from applying the rules  from  school exams  ( timetabling  based)  and Higher education  ( to create  module  'values' ) to all QCA  awards they are only  really a guideline . 

One  pain in the backside  with  specified  hours is the First Aid at Work course ...  you need to specified  contact hours if there are 10 -12  candidates  per trainer but if  it;s 4 or 6  candidates on the courses you fly through the practical teaching , even with extra  practice and  the levle of correction that you can give with a small class   but you have to do the contact hours ...  

[Cara in NZ]

On 12/16/2017 at 07:55, youngatheart said:

It also depends on whether the class is being taught the entire syllabus and then each student gets to choose their preferred options to present in the exam, or whether the teacher decides which dance etc they will be doing and only teaches that one.

 

Personally I much prefer option A, because different dances suit different people, that is the whole point of offering the choice, but in schools with limited class time this may simply not be practical.

 

DD sat Grade 6 after 8 months of 1 hour a week (also doing Advanced Foundation classes though). The teacher said she wouldn't teach the character dance, but then decided to teach it to two of the girls  2 weeks before the exam. It worked for us, but was more of a struggle for the girls who were only at Int Foundation level. DD's now looking forward to Grade 7, also scheduled for 1 hour a week although I hope they will add a second class closer to the October exam.

[balletbean]

On ‎01‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 07:17, Cara in NZ said:

 

DD sat Grade 6 after 8 months of 1 hour a week (also doing Advanced Foundation classes though). The teacher said she wouldn't teach the character dance, but then decided to teach it to two of the girls  2 weeks before the exam. It worked for us, but was more of a struggle for the girls who were only at Int Foundation level. DD's now looking forward to Grade 7, also scheduled for 1 hour a week although I hope they will add a second class closer to the October exam.

Good Luck to your DD.

My DD studied Grade 6 for one academic year but then was put forward for Grade 7 within a few months! Now talking about Grade 8, I'm not too sure how some of her peers will take it as she appears to be leapfrogging (with pointed toes, obviously) over them as they are taking longer to study the Grades. All I've learnt whilst on this forum is that, even though many study RAD they all vary so much as to how many hours per week they train in just ballet or where in the world they are.  Would be interested to know the stats on the overall breakdown of the exam results rather than a generic bar chart. But then that's just me, many may disagree. 

[annaliesey]

My dd did grade 6 quickly then grade 7 at two classes a week for two terms and did grade 8 alongside grade 7 and did the exams in the same sessions. She got distinctions so it is doable but she really enjoyed the grades and would have liked to have done them slower and taken her time to enjoy them. She only did them quickly because of timetables and because there wouldn’t have been a class running after the exams. She has said that when there is a class running again that she will go back and do them again as she enjoyed them so much. 

 

The recommended hours also includes practise hours so I guess that’s where students will vary so much.

 

as for tips, I’d say use the rad app or dvd or download the specifications so that when the syllabus knowledge is secure they can dance with confidence and more performance 

 

good luck  

[thewinelake]

How interesting! Reading all this makes me think that the exams are a bit of a joke and that you can either dance well or you can’t. Well, not really, but it does seem to come naturally to some.

The fact that supposedly vocational exams are taken by dancers with no intention of becoming professionals is another source of amusement/bemusement and my cynical side wonders if it’s just a money making exercise for RAD?

Having said all that, it does seem that (just as in gymnastics) kids do today what only Olympians/professionals would have done 30 years ago, so the progress is undeniable - more so than with academic exams.

[Cara in NZ]

9 minutes ago, thewinelake said:

How interesting! Reading all this makes me think that the exams are a bit of a joke and that you can either dance well or you can’t. Well, not really, but it does seem to come naturally to some.

The fact that supposedly vocational exams are taken by dancers with no intention of becoming professionals is another source of amusement/bemusement and my cynical side wonders if it’s just a money making exercise for RAD?

Having said all that, it does seem that (just as in gymnastics) kids do today what only Olympians/professionals would have done 30 years ago, so the progress is undeniable - more so than with academic exams.

 

I agree about 'vocational' exams, winelake. DD doesn't want a ballet career, and is not going to sit any more vocational exams. She's learned the Adv Foundation syllabus but is adamant she doesn't want to sit the exam. So this year her weekly classes are: one Adv F, one Grade 7, one Int/Adv Open, and one RAD Repertoire (Level 3), plus a private for competition work. Sounds like a nice variety to me, and as she is now 14,I just want her to enjoy her last 2-3 years of ballet. But teachers, parents, and other senior students seem shocked that she isn't sitting vocational exams. It is a strange world!

[thewinelake]

I guess the word vocational is used in the same way as “pro” is used in all sorts of ways in general marketing, and we shouldn’t take it literally. Basically means advanced/expensive more than it confers any career-building qualities (eg a Professional grade camera).

I suspect these grades mean nothing to the students of RBS!

Edited January 7, 2018 by thewinelake

[annaliesey]

@thewinelake are you referring to grades 6,7&8 as vocational grades? 

[thewinelake]

No, just the "Intermediate"..."Advanced" Foundation/1/2 RAD grades.

[Pups_mum]

4 hours ago, thewinelake said:

How interesting! Reading all this makes me think that the exams are a bit of a joke and that you can either dance well or you can’t. Well, not really, but it does seem to come naturally to some.

The fact that supposedly vocational exams are taken by dancers with no intention of becoming professionals is another source of amusement/bemusement and my cynical side wonders if it’s just a money making exercise for RAD?

Having said all that, it does seem that (just as in gymnastics) kids do today what only Olympians/professionals would have done 30 years ago, so the progress is undeniable - more so than with academic exams.

Doing exams comes more easily to some than others too - not just in dance of course. I passed all my professional exams first time, and whilst I certainly would not claim they were easy, I didn't find the process as difficult as many of my peers, at least partly because I've always found it easy to "get" what examiners are looking for, especially in vivas. But I don't think exam prowess translates directly into how skilled someone is in "real life". I have had some excellent colleagues over the years who have been more than competent but never managed to pass the exams, and others where the reverse applied! I'm not sure there's any infallible process of assessment mind you, there will always be some who are disadvantaged by any particular method and others who thrive on it.

[annaliesey]

On 07/01/2018 at 09:04, thewinelake said:

How interesting! Reading all this makes me think that the exams are a bit of a joke and that you can either dance well or you can’t. Well, not really, but it does seem to come naturally to some.

The fact that supposedly vocational exams are taken by dancers with no intention of becoming professionals is another source of amusement/bemusement and my cynical side wonders if it’s just a money making exercise for RAD?

Having said all that, it does seem that (just as in gymnastics) kids do today what only Olympians/professionals would have done 30 years ago, so the progress is undeniable - more so than with academic exams.

 

I share your cynicism  especially when considering the cost of these exams now!

 

weve been looking around at different dance schools and trialling quite a few recently so that we can get to a few different classes each week and the variation between schools is staggering. 

 

One school had an advanced class running for adv foundation and adv 1 combined with adult ballet. Another one combined with “silver swans”. Another one combined with a special/open class so they all had a very different feel and not particularly geared towards vocational as in those wanting to pursue a career in dance/ballet. Another one is intending on combining with ‘discovering repertoire”. All very weird. Lots of differing age ranges too. Youngest age 9 for intermediate foundation and oldest ladies in late 40’s for advanced 1. I’ve also seen daytime classes for adults over 16 for advanced foundation and advanced 1 too. 

 

I’m just not sure about different pathways now for a non vocational student wanting to train vocationally with a view to an auditioning for upper schools. All we are going by is how the class feels with the teaching style and quality and just trying to take a combination of classes. 

 

I hear of quite a few students who are happy to just get a low pass and I wonder why they would want to progress onto the next level without having mastered the current level better. 

 

Maybe its marketing. Maybe it’s the boom in dance competitions. But I agree there’s a lot of non vocational students doing vocational exams 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by annaliesey

[Nicola H]

15 minutes ago, annaliesey said:

 

<snip> But I agree there’s a lot of non vocational students doing vocational exams 

 

 

 there;s a lot of dancers  especially  female (presenting) ones who want to take an award that  recognises  full range of  skills ... as most of the awarding bodies  don't have pointe in a qualification other than the VGEs ...  

[Cara in NZ]

Must admit, DD sat RAD Intermediate in 2016, and I was delighted to find the fee to enter Grade 6 in 2017 was half the vocational fee (I know they have a pianist and are held at approved centres, but DD always said the pianists were part of the problem – eg one played the plié exercises too fast for her Intermediate exam and she said there is no way you can do pliés well at speed!).

Like many dancers, DD is a perfectionist and wouldn't want to  sit an RAD exam if she didn't think she could get Distinction, so I think this is part of her decision as the vocational exams get so much harder with each level. She's managing the Adv Foundation syllabus well except for the pointework, and as the dances are en pointe there is no escape. I don't mind her being realistic, and we had some discussion about her goals for ballet. Whether to keep working on pointework is one of the things that probably contribute to girls staying on the vocational track? DD has a competition pointe solo as well as a couple of variations, so needs to keep up some pointework this year. I've checked that her open and repertoire classes will include pointe so she can drop Adv F if there isn't enough demand.

[annaliesey]

No there isn’t anything is there. I just wonder if ‘vocational’ is the right word though as surely it would attract more people rather than limit to people who think you would only do it if you wanted to do it as career. Why not just say ‘advanced’.

 

i still know of teachers where the vocational graded classes are by invite only. 

 

 

[Nicola H]

11 minutes ago, annaliesey said:

No there isn’t anything is there. I just wonder if ‘vocational’ is the right word though as surely it would attract more people rather than limit to people who think you would only do it if you wanted to do it as career. Why not just say ‘advanced’.

 

i still know of teachers where the vocational graded classes are by invite only. 

 

 

good points ... 

 however  'Advanced'  like 'Intermediate' have gained specific means   because of the VGEs  (  ditto with those  awarding bodies who call their first VGE 'elementary'  rather than Int Foundation ... 

if you look at the  labelling classification of  adult  classes,  you are now finding   gradiations of Beginner and Improver  as people don't want to  touch  the 'intermediate' word for class that doesn't  presume  knowledge / skills   the VGE level ... ( or perhaps more pointedly  doesn;t  include any pointe work )

'Invite only'  is an interesting  one - arguably   any class  is right of admission refused , if you think that an individual is going to harm or hurt themselves or hurt others   then you;d be foolish as a teacher to allow them to keep coming. 

[Cara in NZ]

I think of it as meaning "If you want a ballet career or to teach, you need to be on the vocational pathway. If not, you can still do it but there are other options."

[Nicola H]

9 hours ago, Cara in NZ said:

I think of it as meaning "If you want a ballet career or to teach, you need to be on the vocational pathway. If not, you can still do it but there are other options."

that's a fair assessment of it  Cara .   

when people say  grade 6/7/8  are more 'dancey' i think they are possibly forgetting that the technical aspects   are seen more in the VGEs  at that level, although i don;t know the syllabuses well enough to say that  definitively... 

[sophie_rebecca]

5 minutes ago, Nicola H said:

that's a fair assessment of it  Cara .   

when people say  grade 6/7/8  are more 'dancey' i think they are possibly forgetting that the technical aspects   are seen more in the VGEs  at that level, although i don;t know the syllabuses well enough to say that  definitively... 

 

Vocational (inter foundation through to adv foundation) are a lot more technical hence why people say grades are more 'dancey' as they are, grade 7 is much more expressive & flowing compared to inter foundation which is very technical, the vocationals are meant to prepare you for a career in dance but most dancers I know do both.

 

As for the earlier bit about exam hours, there's an exam specification from the RAD that lists the recommended hours per syllabus https://www.rad.org.uk/documents/exam-docs/RAD_Specification_2018_12_Dec_2017_ex.pdf pages 175 & 176 list TQT (total qualification time) also in that spec which has just been updated you can see all the stuff about the new Discovering Repertoire syllabus.

[Nicola H]

presumably 'additional learning' for  the RAD would be a combination of  study (to  learn the stuff you need for the  questioning  and learn the vocab etc)  and  free work  but at a suitable level classes etc ?

[sophie_rebecca]

1 hour ago, Nicola H said:

presumably 'additional learning' for  the RAD would be a combination of  study (to  learn the stuff you need for the  questioning  and learn the vocab etc)  and  free work  but at a suitable level classes etc ?

 

"Total Qualification Time (TQT) is an indication of the total number of hours required for the average learner to achieve and demonstrate the attainment necessary for the award of a qualification.

 

TQT is comprised of:

(i) the number of hours assigned to a qualification for guided learning (guided learning hours) and

(ii) an estimate of the number of hours a learner will reasonably be likely to spend in preparation, study or any other form of participation in education or training, including assessment, which takes place as directed by – but, unlike guided learning, not under the immediate guidance or supervision of – a teacher (or other provider of education or training)."

 

So Guided Learning is doing the actual syllabus & the other is general class workshops as I understand it.

[Pups_mum]

I think the key words in that definition are "average learner". It doesn't mean that a student must complete that number of hours before the exam, or that everyone will be exam ready when they have done so.  It's just a guide. Some will be ready much sooner, others will need longer, depending on all kinds of factors.  It's interesting to see how the recommendations change with grade though, with the suggested additional learning hours exceeding the guided learning hours for advanced 1 and 2.

[balletbean]

18 hours ago, Cara in NZ said:

Must admit, DD sat RAD Intermediate in 2016, and I was delighted to find the fee to enter Grade 6 in 2017 was half the vocational fee (I know they have a pianist and are held at approved centres, but DD always said the pianists were part of the problem – eg one played the plié exercises too fast for her Intermediate exam and she said there is no way you can do pliés well at speed!).

Like many dancers, DD is a perfectionist and wouldn't want to  sit an RAD exam if she didn't think she could get Distinction, so I think this is part of her decision as the vocational exams get so much harder with each level. She's managing the Adv Foundation syllabus well except for the pointework, and as the dances are en pointe there is no escape. I don't mind her being realistic, and we had some discussion about her goals for ballet. Whether to keep working on pointework is one of the things that probably contribute to girls staying on the vocational track? DD has a competition pointe solo as well as a couple of variations, so needs to keep up some pointework this year. I've checked that her open and repertoire classes will include pointe so she can drop Adv F if there isn't enough demand.

Fingers crossed and with toes pointed (obviously) for your DD's solo performances.  A few of my DD's fellow classmates dropped out of vocational exams as they just couldn't master pointe work but still loved ballet as a hobby. At least having the two options it allows students to continue with ballet but have some control over which path they choose to take.