thewinelake Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It's something that's bothered me for quite some time, but.... This is an absolutely stunning piece of music from Tchaikovsky, but the choreography is dull! dull! dull! Is this just me - am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If I recall correctly (I don't see it very often) I think it's supposed to be a traditional Russian dance, isn't it? I don't think many Western productions include it, but whether that's because it's deemed dull I couldn't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This is an absolutely stunning piece of music from Tchaikovsky, but the choreography is dull! dull! dull! Is this just me - am I missing somethin Which production and whose choreography you mean, thewinelake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I presume it's Petipa, but all those I can find of the major houses on YouTube seem mostly similar. Yes, if it's a traditional Russian character dance, and not really ballet, then that explains it! Edited January 31, 2015 by thewinelake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I've always found it rather beautiful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I love this dance, as well as the music. It's one of my absolute favourites! Perhaps there's different versions of it. Here's a Bolshoi version with Svetlana Uvarova. It's a traditional character dance, but so sensuous and sparkling. (I'll try embedding the videos....) <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F0RW2gEJqIU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> There's also a lovely version of it done by some Vaganova students as part of their exam. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B3J8oAM7xwo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 OK, embedding didn't seem to embed, I'm afraid. The links work, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Yes, if it's a traditional Russian character dance, and not really ballet, then that explains it! Why it is not really ballet? The movements are based on Russian folk dance but it is performed on points, with beautiful pas de bourre, sometimes 'gliding', sometimes staccato. It is a pity that the last gesture of the arm stretched forward with the palm opened, as if offering a gift, somehow disappeared in Uvarova's recording. Gestures (sometimes like telling a story) and the right posture are very important in character dances. In Russia character dances (not on points) were always an important part of ballet performances. Yuliana Malkhasyants talked about it in her interview a few years ago: http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_04/aug04/interview_malkhasyants.htm Here are several interpretations of the Danse Russe: Ulyana Lopatkina: Olga Chenchikova: http://my.mail.ru/mail/zornika3/video/5435/5558.html Ekaterina Maximova is here as enchanting as in anything she did. (With Vladimir Vasiliev watching her dance.) Every movement is full of grace. http://my.mail.ru/mail/valya-1945/video/3876/18288.html She would have been 76 yesterday. Edited February 2, 2015 by John Mallinson 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mallinson Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 OK, embedding didn't seem to embed, I'm afraid. The links work, though. All you need to do is to copy the URL from YouTube and paste it into your message. The video won't appear until you post the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) OK, I think I understand now - I truly am somewhat shallow in my appreciation of ballet (and I'm not being sarcastic here, honest!). I can see that there is some grace is some of those clips, but I want more action. Hope I don't get banned, and maybe when I'm older I will appreciate the finer points! It's a bit like when I used to prefer Australian wine to French... Edited February 4, 2015 by thewinelake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 BRB use that music with completely different choreography! They are doing Swan Lake in the Autumn - try and get to see it! I prefer Italian wine to French, and always have done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletomanewithoutacause Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Here's a video of some Vaganova students dancing "Russkaya" as a part of their training in character dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletomanewithoutacause Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 And here's video of Anastasia Kolegova dancing Russkaya in a tutu. A bit more action in this one, but I still prefer the Lopatkina version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I prefer Italian wine to French, and always have done! Wine mmmmm....... In my opinion Georgian wine trumps the lot, they don't seem to sell it at the local Tesco though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 And here's video of Anastasia Kolegova dancing Russkaya in a tutu. A bit more action in this one, but I still prefer the Lopatkina version. What Kolegova was dancing (very nicely) here is very thinly related to a character Russian dance, apart from a few steps. This variation was choreographed by Vladimir Vasiliev for his production of “Swan Lake” during his tenure as the Director of the Bolshoi and was shown at Coliseum in 1999, I think. Odile was scrapped and replaced at the ball by the Swan Princess who did her variation - in tutu! - to the tune of Danse Russe. I remember it danced by Antonicheva and Volochkova. What really conveys the spirit of Russian dance is the concert piece, with neither tutu no point shoes, by the great choreographer Kasyan Goleizovsky (1892-1970) who is little known in the West. It had to be danced either barefoot or in soft boots. There is no much “action”, no grand battement or developpe, but the body moves all the time in flowing movements, which are supposed to communicate with the viewer. Maximova was allowed to do it on points by the personal permission of Goleizovsky’s widow ballerina Vera Vasilieva. All following performers danced it without any permission. I found one youtube clip of the barefoot performance with Goleizovsky’s choreography - by Nina Golskaya, still a student of the Bolshoi Ballet Academy at that time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's the Goleizovsky that I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) They sell Georgian wine at M&S. Quite interesting - "Orange" wine, matured in clay amphorae. There's also this red (which I haven't tried!) http://www.marksandspencer.com/chateau-mukhrani-saperavi-case-of-6/p/p60054091 Currently in a bit of a Tenerife phase wine-wise.... Edited February 8, 2015 by thewinelake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Khvanchkara is the one to try, rumoured to be Stalin's favourite. A great rarity when I first tried it, it's much more widely available now. Have you tried the wines of Lanzarote? The vines are grown in the lava fields and look like no other vineyards you've ever seen. well worth a trip and a taste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Wondering if Khvanchkara is a wine or a ballet dancer/choreographer?!! Yes, I've visited the vineyards there - fascinating the way the vines can develop in those craters. However, the wines are much better in Tenerife! Suertes del Marques (no relation of Roberta!) is well worth trying. Will certainly follow up the Khvanchkara recommendation - cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Wondering if Khvanchkara is a wine or a ballet dancer/choreographer?!! .... Will certainly follow up the Khvanchkara recommendation - cheers! While following up the Khvanchkara recommendation, thewinelake, you can also enjoy the Armenian composer Khachaturian's music for "Spartacus" and "Masquerade". Did you mean him? Edited February 9, 2015 by Amelia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 You have to love thread drift sometimes, don't you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Oh, one drift a bit more please! What is the film and why were the men dancing with one arm behind their backs? I love Russian music, history and ballet but I have tried over and over again to read Russian novels and I can't get into them at all. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I found out about Masquerade on Wiki and YouTube. Whatever would novelists and playwrights do without wilful misunderstanding? It's such a useful plot engine. Poor Nina! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Oh, one drift a bit more please! What is the film and why were the men dancing with one arm behind their backs? I don’t know which film this clip is from. The words “Film Masquerade” are inscribed there but the behaviour of the couple does not resemble the plot. There was an old film “Masquerade” made much earlier, in 1941, and although Khachaturian’s famous Masquerade Suite was composed for a theatre production in the same year - but a different waltz was used in the film. It can be heard and seen here, min. 106. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22hfPMUbx0U It was explained to me long time ago that, when waltz came to Russia (about 200 y. ago), the Russian beau monde was much more apprehensive of physical proximity, especially in public, and was attaching great importance even to a light touch of hands. It was noticed, discussed, criticized. Therefore, they danced waltz in the ‘open position’. Things changed gradually... Edit: link added. Edited February 11, 2015 by Amelia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thank you, Amelia. The Internet did not enlighten me at all about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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