mimi66 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) oops Sorry, but it is not funny. I am not joking about this, Michelle. You have ruined other people's threads before. Edited February 19, 2014 by mimi66 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Never upstage another dancer - or "break a leg" might come true. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I I didn't just wonder what was meant by the definition I actually asked the Royal Ballet School to explain itself. I published my email to the School and the School's reply which was very clear though not what some members of the Forum had expected. However, there is no need to talk about that here. I agree that discerning what is meant by "beginners" and "intermediate" is a lot of fun for those in the know but for those who are not and need a straight answer, the use of code or jargon is very irritating, It is also perhaps damaging in that it goes contrary to the efforts of companies like Scottish Ballet and Northern Ballet (and now even the Royal Ballet) to make ballet accessible to the public. It is after all the public who keep ballet going whether as theatre goers, sponsors or indeed taxpayers. The great thing about Northern Ballet Academy is that it specifies very clearly the level of ability that is expected for each level of class and it does so in the Queen's English. I have more thoughts about class levels... I think it's good that there are companies trying to make their classes more accessible to their audiences. However, I think it's not the actual ballet jargon/traditional level meanings that is the 'problem' sometimes. Sometimes it's how a dancer judges himself or herself when he/she tries a new class. For example, there could be a class labelled 'elementary' - a Pineapple class is a good example for what I mean. A dancer tries the class for the first time and notices that there are a lot of advanced dancers and dancers who are probably professionals. The problem is when the new dancer starts to doubt himself or herself, thinking, 'those dancers can lift their leg higher and do multiple pirouettes with ease. I can't do the same as them so I must be in the wrong class'. The dancer might then be put off coming back, thinking that class was 'too hard'. I don't mean that the advanced dancers shouldn't attend lower level classes. I actually think it's a good thing to have professionals show you how it should be done! But for some dancers they need to able to see what they could learn by watching the advanced dancers, rather than compare themselves negatively and be put off that there are higher level dancers in the same class. But I also know that this is easier said than done! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sorry Ladies but I thought that thread was about terms and codes and it is turning into a guide into different levels and names given to them... I should you should start a new thread for it... Unless I misunderstood mimi66 when she started the discussion... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Just wanted to add that my student takes 3 non syllabus classes a week, including one Russian style, as well as RAD and as it's just one class, as part of a weekend trip to London, I don't think it would do her any harm. I just wondered if anyone actually knew what standard intermediate ballet refers to? Anyway moving away from levels, ballet terms are a nightmare all on their own! For example sissone in RAD is a jump from 2 feet to one and temps leve is a jump on one leg. Unfortunately Vaganova has a long name for temps leve and they tend to shorten it to sissone!!!! And what about cou de pied and coupe? One is a position and one a movement but people seem to ignore that fact! In my day we used to call pointe shoes blocked toe shoes, so imagine the consternation caused by saying - oh dear I haven't got my blocks with me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 In my day too. Yet we still call Demi pointe shoes soft blocks or at least we do at DD's school. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes, I have always heard them called soft blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Demi pointes are flat ballet shoes in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I find the term "ballet slippers" sounding...mm...like something comes with pom pom. Is it still used to mean ballet shoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyelliott Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes I remember my first pair of "blocks " as they were known then ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 well, taxi4ballet, your DD must be a very accomplished dancer.... the reason why she was invited to stay on the barre portion of advanced/pro class afterwards! It's really sweet of you to say so, but she's no more advanced than lots of others her age . She was asked to stay on as the teacher found out that she had an audition coming up and he wanted to help Anyhow, we digress... back to the thread. How about the terms 'vocational' and non-vocational'? Does 'vocational' refer only to those in full-time training or does it include associates as well? What does everybody think? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I thought 'vocational' was only people at f/t school/college - but DD's teaches says the point at which a child (responsibly) starts training towards a career rather than just for fun She took DD seriously from about half a term after she started - she said it obvious that she was committed to a career rather than a hobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think associates etc are referred to as pre vocational as opposed to recreational. Then vocational is serious full time training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 But what is serious full time training? Some kids dance 6 or 7 days a week without being in a vocational school... It's got to be considered as serious hence vocational? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullContretemps Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have a friend who calls soft blocks/demi pointes Delcos which was one I hadn't heard before, but think that might be the brand (like calling vacuum cleaners hoovers!) As for vocational, that's made me think. Previously I would have thought just those at 'vocational school', but now thinking I would include those not at full time dance school but heading for a career in dance as vocational. I also think it's amusing that RAD call the vocational exams vocational, because I am definitely not a vocational student (trying to debate with my teacher that I really don't think I can pass advanced, especially before it changes. At the ripe old age of 24 and in a full time definitely not dance-related job!). I also find it amusing how many people that the particular fondu I'm talking about has nothing to do with cheese on this occasion (though I did live in Switzerland for a bit so they might be forgiven for that one!). Frogs legs is another one which confuses non-dancers (what do you mean my frogs' legs are amazing?!). Turnout is fairly self-explanatory but when I was new to the ballet world it took me a little while to figure out that extension just meant height of legs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I thought 'vocational' was only people at f/t school/college - but DD's teaches says the point at which a child (responsibly) starts training towards a career rather than just for fun She took DD seriously from about half a term after she started - she said it obvious that she was committed to a career rather than a hobby I agree with katymacs teacher.At the schools I teach at we refer to those students taking the vocational grades with a view to going into full time training as our vocational students- that is those with a vocation, in this case dance. There are many very serious students out there who are working every bit as hard if not more so than their full time counterparts! And this work pays off, our schools two most senior students have received offers for full time training in September! They are working hard for advanced 2 RAD at the moment so would not be happy with the term recreational! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) "Double time" as in "Oh, then you do the same pattern in double time..." May be it was just an isolated occation, but am I right in thinking "double time" in ballet, and in this case means "twince as long"? I know my "double time" in music, which means play the same thing twice as quickly. So I duely did that move twice as quickly, turned out that I should be doing them twice as slowly - what musicians would call "half time" or "half that tempo". Edited February 20, 2014 by mimi66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I too would have thought that double time meant twice as fast (music degree) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I agree with katymacs teacher. At the schools I teach at we refer to those students taking the vocational grades with a view to going into full time training as our vocational students- that is those with a vocation, in this case dance. There are many very serious students out there who are working every bit as hard if not more so than their full time counterparts! And this work pays off, our schools two most senior students have received offers for full time training in September! They are working hard for advanced 2 RAD at the moment so would not be happy with the term recreational! I didn't have a clue what they were talking about initially; no way could my DD who started Ballet at nearly 14 have a career in dance...... I am appalled at the sheer amount she does - I couldn't even consider it (no wonder she is ill or tired at times) I too would have thought that double time meant twice as fast (music degree) Me too (no music degree....very little music training) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullContretemps Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have a music degree too and would take double time to mean twice as fast (though I would probably say double speed). Haven't ever heard it the other way round in music or dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was just wondering whether in dancers' use "double time/speed" to mean twice as slower... As I have mentioned, i know what it means in music - but then dancers do somethings differently from the musicians (like counts...) Any idea, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Double time to me as a dancer always meant to do the dance sequence twice as fast to the same music. So, if a dance sequence takes 8 counts of music - if I am then asked to double time it - I now do the dance sequence twice as fast to the same 8 counts of music. I can also dance "within" the music or I can dance "on top" of the music - or even "through" the music. Modern dancers and ballet dancers - doing the same steps to the same music - use the music very differently. Ballet dancers go up to go up, whilst modern dancers go down to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 thank you, Anjuli. My example must have been a one-off blip. Could have been that something was lost in the translation. Now I can go to sleep soundly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The thing that springs to mind for me was the word "attitude" as it took me a little while to figure out my daughter was learning a dance move not just changing her behaviour in class 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) The other day I had a lovely Australian (I think) teacher covering our regular ballet teacher. She has obviously done and teach RAD but some of the things she made us do and the way she explained certain things were a bit different (and fun!) At the end of the class, I went up and asked her : "Are you "Russian"?" Edited March 5, 2014 by mimi66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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