"Deborah MacMillan and Kenneth MacMillan's Ballets" Dance Europe

[Ondine]

New on YouTube. Official Dance Europe channel link.

 

Film clips by courtesy: Romeo and Juliet  The Royal Ballet   Mayerling English National Ballet   Song of the Earth Ballet de l’Opéra national de Paris    Manon Stuttgart Ballet Mayerling Mayerling Hungarian National Ballet

 

Interview filmed at the Royal Opera House, London With thanks to The Royal Ballet Press Office Filmed and Edited by Emma Kauldhar A Dance Europe Film ©2023

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alison]

Thanks, Ondine.  Lady MacMillan makes some very interesting points at about 20 minutes in, and for those who have always been bemused/revolted at The Judas Tree there's some very enlightening information at around 33 minutes.

[Ondine]

Yes, it's really useful that she has that chance to explain.

 

I'll add this here (official link).

 

 

 

 

[Suffolkgal]

Fascinating Thankyou. So true those last comments. When dancers really have the chops it’s as if it’s all just unfolding in front of you. Like the moment Juliet goes up on pointe  for that kiss with Romeo - when they really get that it’s hold your breath racing heart time!

[jm365]

I'm  a little surprised at the extracts/photos they used to illustrate Mayerling and Judas Tree - Mukhamedov was MacMillan's choice for the revival of Mayerling, and Judas Tree was created on him.  Recordings exist of both - though maybe not RB copyright?

 

Edited to add that I thought it was a very interesting interview.  It's good to hear Lady MacMillan at length.

Edited August 14, 2023 by jm365

[Ondine]

1 hour ago, jm365 said:

It's good to hear Lady MacMillan at length.

 

Yes. I think her insight needs to be more fully recorded!

[Dawnstar]

In the light of the recent discussions on the Classical vs Contemporary thread I found the comment about MacMillan insisting companies he worked with be able to do Sleeping Beauty interesting. Seeing the clip of the Stuttgart Ballet Mayerling production makes me wish that was available to watch again, as when it was streamed during the lockdowns I thought it was excellent.

[SheilaC]

5 hours ago, alison said:

Thanks, Ondine.  Lady MacMillan makes some very interesting points at about 20 minutes in, and for those who have always been bemused/revolted at The Judas Tree there's some very enlightening information at around 33 minutes.

I'm not fully convinced.  I was at the opening night of The Judas Tree and was absolutely appalled. I spoke to Monica Mason in the interval and several other women joined us. I said that such graphic violence against women was wrong, that there would be women in the audience who had been raped who would be in shock- as I was, I was shaking, even though I haven't suffered rape- and that many men would also be shocked. My husband wasn't there but he always refused to see the ballet, even on the video that I bought that included it. Monica Mason told me and the other women that many of the female dancers were very upset by it. Later that night I wrote to Jeremy Isaacs, Director of the ROH, saying that the audience shouldn't be paying for MacMillan's psychoanalysis on stage.

Deborah MacMillan's explanation is interesting but doesn't explain the immediate impact when one first sees the ballet and, from a psychoanalytic perspective, one could regard the explanation as rationalisation. I should add that I was great admirer of MacMillan, including of The Invitation, the first ballet to depict rape on the stage, despite De Valois's reservations. I have seen the ballet since the premiere, the impact is now less and I think some of the choreography is really good; but my analysis remains.

[OnePigeon]

The Judas Tree is incredibly powerful and I can understand people being shocked, but I never got any sign of it glorifying rape or being gratuitous or misogynistic.  I think there should be a place in ballet to explore the darker elements of life and I personally never had any problem viewing the Judas Tree; it packs an emotional punch but also has those intriguing symbolic elements that make it more opaque.  My biggest regret is being ill the night I was supposed to see Mukhamedov perform it and now that ship has sailed.

[Candleque]

16 hours ago, SheilaC said:

I'm not fully convinced.  I was at the opening night of The Judas Tree and was absolutely appalled. I spoke to Monica Mason in the interval and several other women joined us. I said that such graphic violence against women was wrong, that there would be women in the audience who had been raped who would be in shock- as I was, I was shaking, even though I haven't suffered rape- and that many men would also be shocked. My husband wasn't there but he always refused to see the ballet, even on the video that I bought that included it. Monica Mason told me and the other women that many of the female dancers were very upset by it. Later that night I wrote to Jeremy Isaacs, Director of the ROH, saying that the audience shouldn't be paying for MacMillan's psychoanalysis on stage.

I didn't see opening night but was similarly appalled. Good to hear you shared your views with the management. I wonder if dancers are allowed to say no to these parts or if would harm their career to speak out.

Just because rape is a sad reality in our world, it isn't my choice of entertainment. In fact I think it normalises misogynistic behaviour when people see it consistently depicted in films, music, or on stage.

I've not seen a deep dive from critics or historians into why MacMillan was so specifically drawn to depicting violence against women. (There are lots of other horrors of modern life he ignores.) It's not just Judas Tree or The Invitation. He adds it to quite a lot of his work. I can't sit through the third act of Manon anymore. Even in Romeo & Juliet (his best ballet imo) he just has to add some violence with Tybalt throwing a harlot to the ground (as if we couldn't tell he's a hot head) and making Paris act controlling and abusive toward Juliet, which is nowhere to be found in the play. 

[Suffolkgal]

I am glad in a way I saw mukamedov in the role he was amazing but it was very distressing. I found different drummer more unsettling and that’s back! One night the Judas tree hanging scene went wrong and he (irek) sort of held himself up clearly saying to the others go! go! It was awful. When he came out he said”basxxxd ballet”. I’ve never forgotten it. Hope this is ok to share it is very clear in my mind not anecdotal 

[DVDfan]

I have only seen Judas Tree on DVD, and that is bad enough, so I hate to think about its impact seen live. It goes too far, personally I don't think it should be performed again, and certainly no one should see it without being aware of the content and how graphically it is depicted. 

I think what Lady MacMillan says about it opens an interesting discussion about the intention of the creative versus what the audience sees.

In my opinion a language of any kind - dance or any other - has two participants, the speaker and the hearer. If the hearer doesn't understand, it has failed as a means of communication. Now with dance, much of the time, this doesn't matter. The music is good, the dancers are beautiful to watch. But with the Judas Tree it does matter because the key section is a powerful depiction of a gang rape, it is horrible and distressing to see and I don't think that claiming it represents something else is valid. If that is so, portray the something else! 

 

 

[art_enthusiast]

Is Different Drummer based on the Wozzeck opera?

 

Didn’t think too much of that when I saw it at the ROH this year

 

Very depressing 

[Guest oncnp]

9 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

Is Different Drummer based on the Wozzeck opera?

 

Didn’t think too much of that when I saw it at the ROH this year

 

Very depressing 

 

Different Drummer was inspired by George Büchner’s play Woyzeck, the story of a soldier and his descent into insanity. 

 

Different Drummer — Kenneth MacMillan

[alison]

Which in turn did give rise to Berg's Wozzeck ...

[zxDaveM]

I will probably see Different D the once, to reaffirm it is as ghastly as I remember.

NOTHING could persuade me to see Judas Tree, or The Invitation, ever again

[Emeralds]

Berg’s opera is full length and has no dancing (which can be better or worse depending on your view of it) but it’s the same story all night so you can’t run away from it or dilute it with a cheery plotless ballet and an uplifting, beautiful closing ballet like in the triple bill.

 

I actually saw Different Drummer with what should have been the original cast of Wayne Eagling and Alessandra Ferri but Eagling had sustained an injury so was substituted by Stephen Jefferies, who was of course very good (and opened the next run of the ballet) and thought the ballet was ok even if not cheery nor exhilarating. I was actually very young at the time so a lot of the meaning went over my head, although I had read the synopsis (in those days summarised so concisely that it isn’t very explicit). I remembered  a lot of the cruelty to Woyzeck was done in quite a surreal, almost mime style, that it looked obviously like “playacting” and less upsetting. (I don’t know if that was the intention but that was what it looked like to a newbie!) 

 

t was my first time seeing the Royal Ballet on stage so I was probably too busy taking in other details to pay full attention to the choreography alone. I remember Alessandra Ferri looked ethereal, utterly beautiful in her dancing (even though Marie is not a nice character, rather like a Manon with fewer redeeming features). It’s quite likely  that the euphoria of seeing the Royal Ballet for the first time (the opening ballet in the triple bill was The Firebird) diluted a lot of the negative bits. I liked it less than The Firebird or his Romeo and Juliet but when compared to Mayerling and The Invitation later on, I liked Different Drummer more than those two.

 

I didn’t manage to see subsequent casts so my memory of it is still Alessandra Ferri, insanely talented at the age of just 21 in the role of Marie, and Stephen Jefferies. 

 

I also remember seeing The Judas Tree when it first premiered, with Irek Mukhamedov and Viviana Durante in the leads, and feeling baffled as well as  shocked. There seemed to be two storylines going on, with a sort of Judas and Jesus story, as well as this story of the woman in the shroud who is very confident at first but then gets attacked by all except the Jesus character. I saw it again on tv and still found it baffling and disturbing, and without much of MacMillan’s usual lyrical sweeping choreography, so I gave it a miss in subsequent revivals, and during the MacMillan Celebration in 2017, booked a different mixed bill that didn’t contain Judas Tree. Would book to see Different Drummer again but not Invitation or Judas Tree; if there was only one triple bill, I might consider watching just the other two ballets and skipping TJT or TI, depending on the price.

 

There are other MacMillan ballets  which are more lovely - glad Danses Concertantes (at long last) and Requiem are being revived. Hopefully Solitaire will be revived soon too. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Emeralds

[alison]

I seem to have been in a minority, but I actually liked Different Drummer last time around - at least, with the first cast.  But then, as I've said before, I seem to have a greater appreciation of German Expressionism than many people