taxi4ballet Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Do the shoes dig into the top of your foot and hurt when rising onto demi-pointe? If so, it might not be that you need a deeper profile but a shorter vamp, or a v-shaped one rather than rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Padding- a small, thin ouch pouch. It doesn't do much for my poor big toenail and that's the only thing that really needs padding. The shoe just presses on my big toenail. There's so much pressure. This is only on demi pointe, on full pointe they're fine! shame I need to roll up from demi to full for the exam! Walks on demi pointe are agony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Is your toenail ingrowing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I have an involuted or omega shape toenail. I see a podiatrist once a month to have nails cut. The pain isn't on the edge where the toenail would I grow, it's right in the centre of the nail bed. It's distinctly a pressure/bruise like pain and only when articulating or rolling through Demi pointe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If anything, sometimes extra padding on the toe that hurts only makes the available space in the shoe for that toe even smaller and tighter, which can make things worse rather than better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I don't feel like I need padding on other toes at all. I'm still pretty convinced that the nova is just too low a profile and that is squishing my toes! With the right shoe I feel like I can go without padding or minimal padding/taping on the big toe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I went to freed but unfortunately I don't think my shoes are quite right for my feet. having had a few failures hopefully you will have a good idea of what you are looking for though! I have the same pain as you rolling through but think the vamp is too long for me. They are also very baggy on the heel (actually a bit too big all over I think!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I don't feel like I need padding on other toes at all. I'm still pretty convinced that the nova is just too low a profile and that is squishing my toes! With the right shoe I feel like I can go without padding or minimal padding/taping on the big toe. Have you tried just a silicon/gel toe tip over your big toe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I went to freed but unfortunately I don't think my shoes are quite right for my feet. having had a few failures hopefully you will have a good idea of what you are looking for though! I have the same pain as you rolling through but think the vamp is too long for me. They are also very baggy on the heel (actually a bit too big all over I think!). Do you know who did your fitting, Moomin? If you are unhappy with your shoes you can take them back and ask for a Senior fitter to check the fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Moomin, your pointe issues sound very similar to mine! Anna, not with the novas I have ordered some big tips from capezio to try. I honestly felt best with freeds fleecy toe pads maybe I could go back to these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I know who checked them. She did make a comment about being a bit big but wasn't overly worried. I guess I would have a much better idea of what I'm looking for next time, but not sure whether to try somewhere else for comparison. I'm not sure what they should actually be looking at/doing at the fitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Moomin, I had a similar experience at my last fitting. It was like 'this the best we can do BUT the shank is too hard for you, there is so minor twisting of the shank on your left foot and the heels are a bit low...' It's really frustrating, I feel like with my feet it has to be perfect to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Moomin, I had a similar experience at my last fitting. It was like 'this the best we can do BUT the shank is too hard for you, there is so minor twisting of the shank on your left foot and the heels are a bit low...' It's really frustrating, I feel like with my feet it has to be perfect to work! Well that's three reasons why they shouldn't really have sold you those shoes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Just a note: if you have very compressible toes/feet (I know I do), then some form of padding such as a spacer between your big toe and second toe might be useful. This video has some interesting techniques. The taping looks a bit too hard core, but a simple spacer might help. It's a really good series on the insider's view of pointe work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thanks, Kate. My feet hardly compress at all! I tried on three new styles today and none were 'the one' either so came home empty handed: I tried on a pair of stock Freed Classic pros. They were size 6 XX, fish maker (I can't find any info online on how he makes his shoes though.) I didn't like them at all. They were too low in the profile, too long and too narrow (there was no 5.5 XXX in stock.) I hated the shank, it was way too hard. The only thing I did like was the elastic drawstring. Next I tried Capezio Bella in 7.5 W. The fitter commented Capezios don't really suit a lot of people(?) Even with the elastic drawstring they were way too big at the heel so I quickly discarded them. I was close to bringing home a pair of Bloch Amelie soft, they were very close to being what I wanted. I tried on a size 5 in XX. They ticked almost all the boxes and I tried them on and I tried them three times before reluctantly leaving them behind (I promised myself unless they were perfect that they weren't coming home and I stuck to it wholeheartedly however much it sucked!) They fitted really well in the length and width. The drawstring was nice. Box was OK but had a few suspicious looking creases that indicated they weren't quite right (maybe a bit narrow?) Heel felt secure, were staying on in an unbroken-in demi plie. No bagging at the heel. Shank ended just before the heel. I struggled a bit to get over the box but nothing major. Unfortunately I had to say 'no' as the vamp was too long, it came up way over my 'bunion' joint and felt a bit ouchy there. The soft shank felt like it would mould well but I promised I would not settle for anything other than perfect. Going to try a few more tomorrow after work (hopefully!) as local dance shop have some new stock. Hopefully every 'no' is closer to a yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Gosh, good luck. Dd hasn't tried Fishmaker but unless you were unknowingly trying on a hard shank in the Classic Pro, I'm very surprised to hear that the shank was way too hard. They aren't pre-arched like Gaynors so the shank will look very straight, but they are usually very pliable and easy to break in. Dd only has to bend hers back and forth with her hands and they are fine. Classic Pros do come up narrower than Studios though so you probably needed a XXX. The creases in the box of the Blochs do suggest that it was a bit narrow for you. With regards to the length, is the fitter getting you to demi plie then plie in first to see if your toes are being squashed against the box? Also, en pointe it is ok to be able to pinch a little bit of fabric at the heel - not too much in case you are sinking into the box, but enough that they won't be too tight on flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Even the shank on a 'hard' Classic Pro is pliable, no where near as hard as Grishkos. My DD can barely tell the difference between the medium and hard shank, we buy a mixture and after a couple of wears they all feel the same Could it be that the wings on Classic Pros are too high and hard for you? This would potentially stop you from bending the shank if your arch bends low in your foot. Also if they were too long you would be further down the shoe when on pointe. I believe you can order a customised Classic with an elastic drawstring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Thanks for the video link Kate, very intersting! It's difficult I suppose when all you do is step up to pointe in the shop to really tell what the shoes are going to be like. I agree that the freeds are really quite soft and can't imagine softer shoes giving much support but I suppose it depends on what type of feet you have? Also freeds break in very quickly (shank and wings) so although may feel hard for the first lesson won't stay that way! Has your teacher offered any advice on brands? I would have thought they would be taking notice if you still don't feel able to do much more than roll through after a year on pointe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Shank felt VERY hard in the classic pro (almost as hard as say the Bloch Sonata.) I didn't feel like I would be able to bend the shank in the Freeds at all! In terms of the length, I stand up in them then grand plie in 2nd. Loulabelle- yes, I suspect the wings might be part of the problem. If I go down the custom Freed route I understand I can ask for the without wing blocks? In terms of brands my teacher has suggested Freed (because she believes them to be the best.) But she is VERY open-minded and girls (especially in the adult class) wear all kinds: Bloch, Grishko, Russian Pointe and Gaynors. She very much believes in not being narrow-minded and try lots! I tried on a new brand today: even though the size was wrong it was at least promising. I tried the Bloch European Balance (as suggested) in a 5 XX. They were WAY too small! My toe was crunching against the end just standing! However, I think it's worth persevering with this shoe (oddly, with this shoe the XX felt crazily narrow considering it's supposed to be a 'wide' shoe in comparison with the Amelie?) Anyway, there was lots to like. The elastic drawstring barely needed any tightening. I loved the little cushion heel, they felt secure at the heel. The shank also felt hard, but not as hard as say, the Sonata. The fitter has ordered a 6 XXX to try. There was a lot I liked about it so I want to try again though unfortunately I suspect the vamp may be a bit too long. So even though they didn't fit I feel like with a few tweaks they *might* work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Have you showed your shoes to your teacher, and explained to her what problems you have with them? What does she say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I have. She just says I have the narrowest heels I've ever seen compared to the width of my forefoot! She is very 'old school' (is in her seventies and was a pro dancer) and is kind of of that age where 'pointe shoes hurt' (she has the arthritis and the crippled feet to prove it!) and 'ballet is anything but fun.' Don't get me wrong, I adore her and she is an awesome teacher who is so encouraging to me. But she's kind of at a lost of what to try next... she is only really familiar with very limited styles of Bloch and Grishko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hmmm. Even if she is "old school" it would still be helpful were she to look at your shoes while you are en pointe, and suggest where the problem might be. Did you say you need a size 10 Gaynor? That sounds big if you are trying on 5.5 and 6 in Bloch and Freed. If I remember rightly, 9.5 in a Gaynor is about 6.5 in Freed Classic Pro, so a size 10 Gaynor would be almost a size 7. Have you tried on a smaller Gaynor with a wider box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 She thinks it is a combination of two things: 01. The shank in the Grishko is just too hard for my feet. and 02. My feet are very extreme in shape and because my heels are too narrow they just 'pop out.' So it's finding a balance of these two things (she thinks.) All she said is that I should avoid medium shank Grishkos (and I should go for super soft in this brand if it is the brand for me.) We looked through some styles together and came up with a 'shortlist' of the Bloch Amelie Soft (the vamp was too long,) the Contempora (which I haven't tried but suspect the vamp will be too long,) Plie II (on the capezio website they are over £90!) or the Bella (which was not tapered enough at the heel.) She says Capezio are hard to fit and none of the girls at my studio wear them. We talked about Sansha and she wasn't keen but suggested possibly the Etudes (but it has a long vamp,) the Ovation in the 3/4 shank or the FR Duval Model 01. I'm pretty far through the list now! Originally I was fitted for a 7.5 Gaynor- I couldn't get my foot in it, it was too short! Same all the way up to a size 9- standing flat on the floor in a Gaynor my big toe was pressing hard at the end of the shoe. This was all in the #4 box as I couldn't get my foot into a #3 box. Heels were popping off in every size- even the sleek heels were baggy around that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 You can sew the heals to reduce the fabric there, if you're handy you can also reduce the vamp, although I think that is more difficult. Every shoe popped off my heels when trying them on but not after putting ribbons on, they are baggy but don't cause me any functional problems. Have you tried any Russian pointe as they do different vamp lengths in each style? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hi Moomin, heel seaming is definitely something I looked at (I toyed with doing it to the Novas but then realized it would make no difference!) I'm waiting for my stockists to get some Russian Pointes in: as a starting point we are trying the Muse and the Brava as a starting pointe (though I'm reading the Encore has a diamond shape and an elastic drawstring but only read this on one site- can anyone confirm?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm reading the Encore has a diamond shape and an elastic drawstring but only read this on one site- can anyone confirm? Yes that's right, and comes in a variety of different vamp lengths & shank strengths as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celb Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Have you considered the Grishko pro-flex this is a very soft flexible shank which my DD had as her first pointe shoe - she also has a narrow heel and usually has elastics to help to retain the heels on her shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Russian pointe do a roll through version too, perhaps they will be your shoe!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I can't help thinking that you *really* need to get to London asap, make an appointment with a senior fitter at Dancia and one with Beth or Sophie at Freed. It sounds as if your local stockist is trying anything and everything but not really guiding you as to what you should be feeling. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Must say I do agree. They will have much more stock to tweak the sizes/widths too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckyl Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 celb- I have used all manner of elastics unfortunately, but am considering a super soft shank in Grishko. Russian Pointes sound promising. Unfortunately, I can't get to London until October half term so I am going to keep trying a few things until then. If it's not sorted by then (and then I will have missed a half term of pointe work in my IF class- eek! But I can work on the other stuff right, I want the shoes to be *right* first.) I feel like we might be getting closer though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Becky, I hope I am not being too blunt but I cannot see the point (pardon the pun) of trying things just in the hope that they will work. After all, pointe shoes are not cheap as you have said yourself. It will probably be much cheaper and less stressful in the long run to miss half a term of pointe and work on everything else. Make appointments now to see the fitters Anna has recommended so that you are not disappointed nearer the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 By the way Anna do freeds take appointments? Do you phone them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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