CeliB

I find this a fascinating discussion as I have always thought it somewhat unfair that RBS's 100% employment rate for the Upper school includes a whole cohort of dancers who were trained elsewhere 11-16 and then RBS creamed off the top ones. The fact that so many top dancers apply to the upper school is due to its reputation, and they then RBS continues to enhance this as they have the top dancers at graduation. Plus they assess out throughout the school thus weeding out all those who are not fitting the bill at that precise moment...(and even then what proportion of the lower school make it to the upper school?) I am not meaning to 'dis' the RBS- for all I know the teaching really IS the best in the country/world- but it's hard to tell based on just their much vaunted 100% employment isn't it? For example at DSs vocational school there is NO assessing out (except if children decide they want to leave of their own accord I suppose), not all the graduates go on to employment in dance (some go to university for example) but I am pretty sure all those who have wanted to stay in dance have got a contract somewhere (I will check the garduation yearbook when DS brings it back and find out!). DS ballet teacher who sent him there says all her previous students who went there are ended up in classical companies as principal dancers (even the ones she thought were not quite so good). Of course this is anecdotal so not really good evidence - I cite it only to show that one statistic about employemnt is hard to interpret when the baseline is so different....

I find that very reassuring as a family with no plan B! I was told by someone who runs London Russian Ballet School that her son went to the Bolshoi to train, then after graduating decided he didn't want to be a dancer and marched into Oxford University saying 'I have no qualifications cos I've been at the Bolshoi' and was offered a place. A friend of my sisters who was at Cambridge with her was a dancer in Ballet Rambert who gave up and got a place at Cambridge with, I believe, what would have been considered inadequate qualifications in a non dancer. All fits in with my sense that ex dancers are so motivated that they have a huge capacity to achieve. In any case I'm saving myself a few grey hairs by thinking that, so I intend to stick to my opinion!

Sadly being at a US ballet school DS will graduate with an American High School Diploma and that's it. We took the view that you can learn at any age, but if you want to be the best dancer possible you have to train at a young age. Having been an academic high flyer all my life (I now have so many academic qualifications I can't list them after my name as I would need 3 lines of text) and being married to someone who was consistently bottom of the class at school, scraped a couple of A levels and did a degree in film and geography (yes wierd combination) and now does a film job he adores and has a fantastically rewarding and lucrative career I am less inclined to stress about DS's not very academic inclinations. Kids who go to vocational school are so amazingly focused, mature, self starting, responsible, hard working and interesting (most people who don't know about it find the ballet world fascinating) I think they have the capacity to achieve in any area...

If Clapham isn't too grim for you to travel to the London Russian Ballet School have a variety of classes through the week and weekend. Teachers are mostly ex Bolshoi and extremely good, classes are standard price but lots of funding available to help with fees if they think child has potential. I think a few of the posters here have dancers at London Russians and have been very positive about the teaching there....

DS went to states for SI and later as FT vocational student and DH rang virtually every insurance company here and got no joy. Best is to ask the school itself- they arranged cover for DS under the same insurers all the other American students use. So far he has had a variety of treatments (fairly minor GP type stuff such as vaccinations) and I assume this has been done via the medical insurance he has as we certainly haven't paid anything. If you need the name of the specific insurance company we are using I can get details form DH.....

I and my DS and DD all suffer from recurrent ingrowing toenails. The least interventionist treatment which does work (and was originally recommended by an old and very experienced GP) was to 'pack' behind the nail with cotton wool (similar to what KathG described but I find cotton wool is easier to put in as more compressible) to lift the nail away. It usually takes a good week or so of putting increasing amounts of cotton wool in before the pressure is sufficiently relieved for the toe to heal. But if you get them often you can usually pick it up early and sort it out in a few days. When DS got an ingrowing toenail whilst at summer school in the US they just whipped him down to the Dr and cut the side of the nail completely off- whole thing healed and he was back dancing in about 2 days (of course no pointe so clearly less pressure!). He says this is standard treatment for ingrowing toenails there. Seems a little extreme but I can see how it might result in faster recovery which of course is pretty important if you are expected to train up to 30 hrs a week....

DS (14) is doing 3 weeks technique SI at Kirov and 2 weeks at RBS seniors. Kirov includes classical, contemporary, character and flamenco as well as Russian language and ballet history. Not sure what is in RBS as DS hasn't done it before. His interest is classical ballet though so these prob wouldn't suit an all rounder as much.

a friend of my DS got a scholarship to York last year and knew no-one (and is the first person her teacher has sent there- DS was thinking of going but got an early offer from somewhere he preferred). so you don't necessarily have to be in the 'in' crowd!

I know at DS vocational school in the States the management say that even the full fee does not cover the total cost of a student's teaching/bed/board etc. So even those who are paying $45,000 are getting a degree of subsidy. It is a relatively small school (less than 100) so class sizes are small in both academics and ballet which must push the cost up I suppose, but school itself doesn't look anything like as flash as e.g. Elmhurst and RBS in terms of the buildings etc. Re other famous academies doing it for less I was under the impression most of those quoted (POB, Bolshoi etc) receive a huge stack of state funding. All Bolshoi places are free for Russian nationals aren't they? Isn't this just another case of poor funding in the UK for the arts...

When DS fractured two metatarsals this Christmas the consultant was particularly antsy because the fracture was on the growth plate of the bones. His concern was that if the growth plate fused this would arrest the growth of the bone leading to stunted metatarsals and hence maldevelopment of the foot- which he considered a disaster for a dancer. DS was at that point 14 and 4 months. Although clearly a fracture is major damage, the vulnerability of the growth plates of the foot bones is quite interesting....

I find it quite interesting that the Prix de Lausanne (the only ballet competition that I had ever heard of before my 'ballet mother' days) has age categories 15-16 and 17-18. No over developed pre-pubescents need apply... I would be fascinated to know if there are any statistics about what the very young YAGP winners go on to achieve in later life... Personally I thought that the 9 year old looked rather shaky and 'flappy' (I don't know how else to describe it but it was like a lack of coherence and grounded-ness) compared with the older 14+ dancers. Like it was only by chance that she didn't at some point fall lose her balance and fall over....

a yoga exercise which my teacher (very very good with all sorts of injuries) suggests is extremely helpful to strengthen and align feet (esp pronating)- I will try and describe so hope it makes sense: 1) Kneel on floor knees together with a belt (yoga or cloth or prob theraband would do) under your lower calf/ankle area 2) cross band/belt over on top of your calves and grab hold of each end with the opposing hand (behind your back obv). 3) pull the ends- has the effect of pulling your ankles and heels together 4) a) with heels held so they are touching and feet stretched out behind (eg tops of your feet and toes are flat on the floor) sit on your heels. remain for 5 min or as long as you can bear 4) turn toes under so your foot is flexed - kind of like a runner on a starting block- but still both knees and ankles together, then sit back on your heels as before- 5 min or as long as bearable most people find one of these positions ok and the other excruciating. 10 min a day should have a significant effect on posture/arch strength etc. ps my diving (high board) daughter used orthotic insoles in converse and also found kickers very supportive- not just for the arch but also for the ankle. Now that I have had pronating pointed out I find it extraordinary how many people you see on the street who are storing up later life joint problems by wearing really flat shoes and rolling in or out....

Re competition I suppose it was more a comment about the age at which children should be exposed to competitions, not whether competitions are inherently bad. I agree anyone wanting to be a dancer is going to have to learn to deal with setbacks probably more than in most other walks of life- I just wonder about the merits of having to face this at an age where the research evidence is that they don't have the emotional maturity to interpret 'failure' in a non damaging way.... As with most fly on the wall documentaries about high achieving children it sounds like yet again it is the parents who are the most terrifying part of the package.....

After DS attended his first summer school (age 13) we were told by his teacher that vocational school was imperative if he was to achieve his full potential. His opinion was that DS would always be a dancer but the trade off was good member of corps or perhaps principal in a regional company if he did lessons outside normal school Vs principal of major company guesting all over the world etc etc if he attended vocational school. Whilst we were not starry eyed about where DS will eventually end up, this expressed opinion was I suppose pretty powerful in out decision to allow DS to go to vocational school. But only because he begged us on bended knee to let him go. And we have always said to him if he didn't enjoy it he can come home- we don't really care what he does in life as long as he is happy.... (also DS local dance teacher as well as 3 different international standard dancer/teachers who had taught him had said more or less the same, so it wasn't all down to the one person. However that was the final nail in the coffin of our hope that he would achieve the same level by staying at home....) But of course how will we ever know if that was correct? You can't do both to find out....

The young age is interesting- I remember when DS was young and an exceptional swimmer for his age I read a lot about swimming competitions and the opinion of the ASA was that children under 12 shouldn't really compete at any high level, as at this age children process 'failure' as indicative of an inherent (and global and permanent) lack of ability. Whereas as they grow up they are more able to recognise that other external factors which can potentially be altered (peak fitness, sleep, stress, training method, having an 'off' day etc) are equally important. Hence under 12 competition only serves to make children believe they are worthless...(oh unless of course they always win!). When DD was a competition diver there were some young girls in her squad who at an early age (9, 10 etc) consistently came first in the novice (countrywide but lower level) competitions. As they started competing in higher level competitions they started to do less well (not because they were any less talented but because the competition becomes fiercer at this age) and a high proportion of them gave up diving at this point (they were still pretty young- e.g. under 12). Also it was interesting to see that many who showed early exceptional promise faded at an older age- making it even more imperative to try and achieve balance in the child's life. Whilst any child who wants to aim for a profession ballet career will have to learn to pick themselves up after perceived failure I can't help thinking this should be put off for as long as is feasibly possible.

black grishko split sole canvas ballet flats size 8 adult medium width. Elastics already sewn so can't send back. Sent to Washington for DS show but turned out to be too narrow (he hasn't tried grishkos before so knew it was a gamble). Cost £22 would take any reasonable offer- mainly don't want them wasted and DD has size 5 feet and has stopped growing so they'll never be any use to her.....

Available: black grishko split sole canvas ballet flats size 8 adult medium width. Elastics already sewn so can't send back. Sent to Washington for DS show but turned out to be too narrow (he hasn't tried grishkos before so knew it was a gamble). Cost £22 would take any reasonable offer- mainly don't want them wasted and DD has size 5 feet and has stopped growing so they'll never be any use to her.....

When you get really excited about a clothes sale..... on a ballet supply website.......... Or spend days web searching that perfect (substitute just about any item of dance clothing/equipment)...

DD started ballet at around 3 yrs as her best friend wanted someone to go with, and still enjoys classes at 13 though no real drive to take it further than for her own pleasure. DS likewise dragged along age 10 or so as a friend of mine wanted her sons all to do ballet and asked the teacher who did her adult ballet class to run a boy's class. DS told repeatedly by teachers and my ballet aware friends that he had potential but didn't really take it seriously until we moved to East Sussex and he started having Vaganova based teaching (pure coincidence that the only teacher I could find with another boy taught this discipline and is also an astoundingly good teacher). So at age 12 he went from 1 lesson a week to 2, then 3, then to London Russian Ballet School for extra classes, then summer school scholarship at Kirov Academy in Washington which led to full scholarship at the school where he has just completed his first year with the only A grade in ballet in his class. No dancers in the family on either side. We are still slightly shellshocked..... So I have my friends to blame!! They are both exceedingly smug at having spotted his potential at an early age....

My son was at a friend's for a sleepover party and had both hands full with plates of food- he had to close a cupboard door at head height so he just whipped his foot up and closed the door. Cue a gaggle of teenagers jaw's dropping.....

At DS's school PDAs (is this an Americanism? not sure, anyway for those who don't know it means public displays of affection - eg holding hands, kissing) strictly forbidden. DS got told off for being seen holding hands/kissing at various points, though he has managed 2 relationships so far without apparently too much difficulty. Girl and boys dorms kept strictly single sex- if a student is caught in the wrong coloured dorm at any time it gets taken pretty seriously -one person has had to leave the school dorm and live out due to breaking school rule on being in someone else's bedroom after hours (not expelled as still attends lessons/class but can't board).... Have no experience of UK schools but wd be very interested- in particular how they handle the possibility of same sex relationships as this clearly not solved by separating girls and boys!!!

My DS went through a phase of passing out if he didn't drink enough water. Fortunately this was sufficiently embarrassing that he soon stopped making that mistake- but it shows how important drinking is. And I notice I feel significantly more tired on my cycle to work (13 miles over BIG hills) if I don't slug back water as I go.... DS also struggled with exhaustion/low blood sugar towards the end of class in the first term of vocational school (3-4 hours class a day) and this was solved by energy bars, bananas and much more care to have regular snacks before class and a milk shake or something a bit sustaining to drink throughout the class. He is still growing (we have been reliably informed 'like a weed') but seems to have adapted his intake to his output now... I do think growth spurts and increases in training have to be watched carefully - they seem always to be working to capacity so any additional strain on the system can tip the balance

When we were looking for SIs for our DS in an attempt to evaluate a) how he would rate in an international arena and whether he really liked the reality of intensive training, DS's ballet teacher recommended as her 'top notch' international schools (Kirov as No 1 but the rest in no particular order, and with the caveat that she teaches vaganova so obviously favours that one): Kirov Washington School of American Ballet San Fransisco Ballet Ben Stevens Academy (Houston Ballet) American ballet Theatre RBS Of course Vaganova and Bolshoi in Russia would have been included as top schools but we were looking at SIs specifically. I think she didn't put forward rest of Europe because of the language barrier (he was only 12 at the time). As far as I am aware all international ballet schools accept auditions from overseas students- does anyone know one that doesn't?

can I add a vote for Porselli- best range for boys/men of any online shop I've used and super fast delivery (though as someone else noted if it's out of stock they don't say- but they are usually so fast if it hasn't arrived in 2 days I ring them to find out if it's a stock issue). Also fantastic sales- had to get DS some shoes suitable for Flamenco and got a pair of leather Oxford character shoes for about a tenner.... and ballet flats for £2.00, and DS some ballet sweaters for a fiver... only things I haven't been able to source from them are ballet fitted Ts for boys and Grishko slippers (the shoe 'de choix' at Kirov!). Used other online sources (all mentioned in other posts) and they have been astoundingly slow by comparison..... I agree re postage though- it gets really tough if you end up having to try multiple times- had to get DD some new shoes for a ballet exam and after 3 different pairs were wrong had spent more in postage than I did on the shoes....grrr.

Hi, a quick question as DS has been accepted for RBS seniors SS (the Covent garden one) and hasn't been there before (he's 14)- do they have an open class or performance at the end of the 2 weeks? And if so is there a limit on the number of relatives/friends who can attend? The diary is getting pretty manic so I want to organise childcare in good time (can't possibly take the 4 year old!!!)... Many thanks!