Beezie

And just to clarify, I love dance and love that my daughter loves dance….which may not come across in that last post. Still, my last post is the ‘self doubt’ dialogue that runs in the back of my head…. I read what is said in this thread, and I see similar things in our dance experience, and it just makes the ‘feels’ run wild.

For all these reasons, I cannot help but think that dance conflicts with many of my ideals in raising a strong and independent daughter. As dance moms, I think we all see the positives of dance. Otherwise, we wouldn’t encourage and support. But in the back of my mind, I think: - 1 in a million chance - focus on looks and good genes - focus on weight - more bullying than normal activities - career that peaks in 20s - female characters who are old-fashioned and usually victims, seeking the male protector/rescuer - lack of diversity - few women choreographers - idea that the female dancer is the moldable muse - stories of abuse and coverups - need to please the director, at all costs - injuries - expense Granted, I might have just explained lots of child sports….at least with a couple of these points. If my child chooses university, she probably just proves to be sensible. Many careers get better and better with age. By mid-life, she may be an executive or business owner. She is blazing her own trail, where there is less of a traditional framework and no premature end. But in the meantime, dreams and passion are part of learning who we are. We should all dream and we should all chase our dreams. Perhaps it is knowing when to change our dreams. And how to keep our dreams always aligned with our best and most healthy selves.

Great articles! If anyone has an article on pre-class warm-up the is geared for younger children and follows the idea of dynamic stretching, I’d love some tips. My daughter has some time to warm up before class on her own, and probably defaults to static stretches. (Though she does a quick jog around the block first.) Likewise for home stretching. Or should home stretching really be replaced with home strengthening? The act of getting into a split is still commonly seen as THE accomplishment by children. And still taught with a lot of static stretches…though I think most studios have now moved these to the end of class. But it doesn’t stop kids from wanting to practice these at home, where it is a lot harder to really warm up.

One UK school, and a mess of Eastern European and Russian schools. (Yeah, I know, maybe to be expected with Russian schools given their early selection of dancers.). Also, online flexibility classes in US….ads trying to sell a course subscription. Maybe I just fell into an Instagram advertising hole that I need to get out of….silly algorithms.

It gives a very different impression when the caption of those pictures reads: ”At XXX school, we train flexibility at a young age with exercises like your see here.” …vs what would probably be closer to reality…. ”At XXX school, we select our children based on their turnout and hyper mobility. Here you see our students learning how to fully utilize their natural range of motion.” Clearly caption 2 sounds pretentious…which is why you never see it. Granted maybe the younger generation applies this logic all the time to social media. I don’t know. (Kind of like crazy eyebrow pictures and the like.)

Aklf - Yes, the wisdom of showing children in unnatural positions and promoting over stretching. ….but my upset is also showing a full class of extremely hyper mobile and perfectly turned-out ballet children, like it is normal. I wonder if these schools should disclose that they had to sift through hundreds of applicants to find these kids. Or that they have less genetically perfect students who either weren’t put in the video or are obscured in the back of the class. It feels like false advertising, possibly to young eyes who don’t know how to spot it. If you have all the physical assets for a pro ballet career, than that is awesome! But I can see an average child looking at those pictures and wanting to give-up straight away. …and it makes me sad. At a young age, ballet should be for everyone. And even some pro’s admit that they don’t have all the genetic assets. They have to work hard to use all their natural turnout, or make sure their knees are pulled up to make their legs appear as straight as possible.

As funny as it sounds, I didn’t even know what hyper mobility was until a couple of years ago, when a took a barre class from a former dancer with extreme hyper mobility. It looked so strange in-person that I had to go home and Google it. I probably saw it on stage 100 times, and never noticed it. But in an exercise class with normal ladies, it really looked really bizarre to see her knees appearing to bend backwards. Of course, now that I know what I am looking at, I see it everywhere in ballet. Agree on artistry. While I am a layperson, I love ballet. …but not every ballet. I love the ones that suck you into this incredible, emotional story…..and you leave thinking “How did they do that with no words or song?” In that context, the hyper mobility and tricks have little value. It is the grace, fluidity, and emotion that carries the story. I catch myself watching the dancers face and arms as much as their legs. I suspect others would call me an ‘amateur viewer’ but to each their own.

So geesh, apparently I have followed enough studios that Instagram spams me with ballet posts. But here is what I just cannot believe… I see so many school posts where the entire student body has extreme hyper extension. We are talking 8 and 9 year olds whose feet are 10cm off the floor when sitting with their legs straight and extended. Same with turnout. The entire class of little ones has 180 degree turnout….and demonstrates it with absolutely no effort. I know ‘Instagram vs Reality,’ but are there really schools that are this selective? I always thought extreme hyper extension and full turnout were quite rare. And if this really is a genetic gift, it seems quite improper to highlight these children while peddling stretches that claim to deliver the same results. Ha! If I am confused, I’m never letting my little dancer on Instagram to get ballet spam. I cannot think of a quicker way to disenfranchise her love of ballet.

All great suggestions! Thank you! Taxi4ballet - Haha, we are navigating some language gaps. The teacher knows we will have a conflict with next year’s schedule and my daughters school, and will do what she can….but no real ability to have an in-depth discussion. So if it works out with the current studio, then we are perfect. However, now is the time to look at alternatives too, as back-up Lusodancer-Yes, there are studios that always have space, but classical dance may not be the focus.…hence thinking about navigating some of the schools that want auditions, try-outs or whatever they are called. This would be the schools that are a little more sought after. …and someone else mentioned fit from my daughter’s perspective too. Yes! Agree! I cannot lose sight of that!

We are actually not in the UK. We’re in continental Europe at the moment. Some schools have open auditions. However unfortunately, quite a few schools don’t do an open audition at this age. They have some form of evaluation, either 1:1 or in a class. Then they will offer you a spot, based on skill level and availability. Maybe some goods and bads to this. Sometimes, I hear it is just logistics. Your dancing may be fine, but they just don’t have space in the level in which you were assessed. However, I think it also feels more personal to the child too, as they don’t see all the other kids who may be trying out. Maybe the explanation is just “We try a couple places and see if they have room.” Maybe I shouldn’t even paint it as an audition, per se.

I love the idea of turning it into a ‘day out’ and happy to hear maybe my concerns about physical attributes aren’t as valid as I thought.

Any thoughts on the age to start auditions? And how to set expectations for younger children? We have avoided schools and programs that require auditions. I worry that there is a big genetic component that will be evaluated, which my daughter cannot control. (Ie banana feet, hyper extension, flat turnout.) However, at 9-10, we are finding more and more programs that require auditions. How do you manage audition expectations with a young child? I struggle to explain that there are physical characteristics that are part of the evaluation which she cannot control. Every time I try this in my mind, it either seems like it has the potential to kill her motivation or lead to body issues. However, it also seems a bit unfair to avoid this topic all together. Any thoughts?

What I know of dancers is that they are incredibly smart and they persevere. So don’t give up on your dreams. But also know there are lots of awesome careers out there that aren’t dance too! As a teenager, I almost followed a long-shot opportunity. I was talked out of it by a family member....and I don’t think that is fair. But I also look at the career I have today, and it is incredible....and will just grow and grow in status and recognition, probably until retirement. At best, a dance career is highly competitive and fleeting. Put your whole heart into it....but know it shouldn’t be a final destination. It should be a stop along the way.

Agree, the brooding emotional aspects of some Contemporary pieces are perfect for teens! 😂

Belgium vs US - We’ve seen several Belgium studios that use mirrors sparingly. Students need to learn with the mirror, and are then moved to a non-mirror barre to demonstrate competency (most US studios have lots and lots of mirrors) - Contemporary is integrated very early into training in Belgium and involves a lot of floor work (US usually start kids on tap and jazz, if they want something other than ballet. Contemporary is saved for the teens.) - Non-ballet genres seem a little different. Jazz in Belgium is closer to Lyrical in the US. Theater Dance in Belgium is closer to Jazz in the US. A lot of US kids have taken gymnastics, and the US lyrical has integrated some ‘gymnasticy’ tricks. -Ballet ‘leaps and turns’ are taught a lot later in Belgium, but basic technique is stronger. (US starts some basic pirouettes at 7-8yrs, with focus on feeling the movement rather than technique. In Belgium, my 9yr old’s class is just starting quarter turns and pirouette prep.) -Teacher reverence: Belgium teachers are a lot more serious. Compliments from the teacher are held in high regard, and saved for really big accomplishments. US teachers tend to operate closer to that teacher/friend boundary, especially with older kids. Lots of compliments and support for everyone. -In Belgium, training hours for classical ballet are 1 hr per week up to 8yrs and 2 hr per week until 9-10yrs. Around 13 years, students would consider daily training with a vocational program. (In the US, training hours are all over the place. A lot of kids follow the training hours above, but some kids are dancing every day by ages 8-9yrs....though usually in a couple of genres.) As I write this, I do hope I am not falling into too many generalizations, as I know every studio is different. This is just the ‘flavor’ I notice, having had my child in a couple US schools and tried a couple Belgium schools while selecting. And no criticisms-I just find it very interesting how diverse dance training can be. And all of these methods work, as there are fabulous, happy dance students in all countries.

Beautiful dancers are trained all around the world, and I assume there are some subtle differences in training technique and styles. We recently became expats in Belgium from the US. I find it so interesting to hear about the little differences in my child’s training. I would love to hear from others who have trained in other countries. What was particularly unique? (I realize this also varies from school to school too...and training method to training method.)

I am an expat in Brussels and have a young daughter who dances. If any of the older students have thoughts on the children’s program, I’d appreciate it. Reviews seem to indicate that Brussels International Ballet really doesn’t cater to younger children (under 13). (Some parents who left internet reviews seemed upset at last minute decisions to leave young children out of shows or drop a schedule that works with school hours.). Still, BIBs has children’s classes on their internet site....so I assume there still is an active children’s program. Also, with regards to the sparing compliments, wondering if this is a good fit for younger dancers who are enthusiastic but not certain they are interested in pre-pro.

Anna C...you outlined my concerns better than I could. Spot-on. Yes, there are a couple other dance schools in the area. I am a little worried about leaving and then sheepishly coming back if the other studio isn’t better. Hence, I thought it worth doing some research to understand how common this behavior is. (It sounds quite common, but also sounds like the severity varies from studio to studio.). Good idea to try out another school on a trial basis or for summer classes. Since the PM moms are unlike to be evident at first, do you have any suggested questions to the studio? I think I need to look for a clear and consistent approach to leveling, correct? Maybe philosophy and age at which to start considering privates? (I’m really shocked to see kids as young as 8yrs taking privates at my studio....which is what makes me think it is more about studio earnings than dancer development. Granted, some of those 8yr olds are quite good.) Ultimately, I probably take the queue from my daughter. Her frustration is mild at this point. If it becomes moderate (and before it becomes severe), I think I need to nudge her into taking an exploratory class at another studio. I’ll learn to ignore even the worst Mom behavior if the kiddo is happy and thriving.

Crazylifecrazykids - Oh no, really didn’t mean to make you feel bad! We give little Christmas presents and cards to our teachers around holiday season too. This is not that. To all others: Thank you for your feedback. My takeaways are that some favoritism probably happens everywhere AND talent will payout in the long run. I think that’s what I needed to hear. I may also need to grow some thicker skin in order to stay out of the Mama-drama. Can be hard when you are a non-dancer and all this is quite foreign. ☺️

I get the same comments about talent too: naturally talented, such stage presence, we can see her joy when dancing.... I wonder if studios feed this to the parents of all children who are 50% and above. Who doesn’t like being told their child is fabulous? And what parent wouldn’t sacrifice to nurture their child’s talents? Probably a separate topic, but I wonder if dance teachers can really spot talent in the 8-12 pool....or if they cast a wide net knowing that the course of adolescence will significantly dwindle the numbers.

MrsMoo2 - Oh my, that is my thought too. We are financially able to pay for privates, but I don’t want to perpetuate a revolving-door of children initiated into higher-cost-tier of privileges...esp when my child is barely approaching her pre-teens.

Haha, yes I am. I reviewed a couple of forums, and this one seemed pretty balanced. I guess I missed that it was UK based.

My daughter attends a Ballet/Dance academy with lovely teachers, many of who have professional experience and good connections. In a vacuum, we’d love the school. However, there are some favoritism-type behaviors that I cannot tolerate. I’ve been told by other Mom’s that favoritism happens everywhere. However, I am seeking advise from others...those not connected to my current studio. In my studio, mothers are doing one of two things: 1) They are befriending the dance teachers with compliments and gifts and 2) they are paying for private lessons for their daughters. In both cases, I see their daughters getting selected for more advanced casting. The most blatant case is the best friend of the owner, whose daughter is always guaranteed a preferred role. She is a good dancer, but not the best in the school. Then, for the kids who take private lessons, the teachers promote those children as successes to show the ‘hard work and money’ has paid off....again, not consistently the highest skilled dancers in the school. The school does a good job always offering multiple castings, so there are plenty of spaces available to those who are truly talented. ...but I still hate the hypocrisy of it all. I worry that my daughter will eventually come head-on with one of these ‘favorites’ and not get judged on her talent. Ultimately, I’m worried she will become disenfranchised. (I know I am!) So is this normal everywhere? Or is this a sign of a bad dance school, and I should look elsewhere? Seeking advice!