Beezie

Thank you so much! 🙏 I love that you answered all my questions!

Thank you so much. Haha, ‘the Before Times!’ Love it!

Wonderful! Thank you all! As for training hours, we’ve had some years where my daughter wanted to do more and some years where she wanted to do less. The issue we have had since moving to Europe is that the International Schools hours don’t match local school hours….so we often find we cannot attend the early ballet classes, which are based on a local school schedule. Then, with few class offerings already, it quickly becomes limiting. …it is getting better as my daughter is getting older, as the ballet classes for older kids start a little later. Cobbling together classes at different studios is hard too! We had to do it one year, out of necessity. Some schools won’t let you, or very much frown on it. Then you always run the risk of overlapping recitals/dress rehearsals at the end of the year, which hits the dancer the hardest. It sounds like UK may be more flexible on this, which sounds nice.

As we look to move to the UK (Central London), I am trying to learn more about how Ballet Training in the UK works. Can anyone give a high level overview, or any tips for outsiders? My daughter will be 10-11years old. Things that have crossed my mind: When do studios typically require registration? What is Associates/Jr Associates? When is the audition process, and for what age does it apply? Do most studios require auditions? Do studios follow the UK school schedule? (We are looking at international schools that don’t follow the UK schedule, and I am wondering if that will lead to issues.) Some studios only seem to have 1 class/wk + Jr associates. This seems like a somewhat light schedule. Is it assumed the child may be attending more than one studio? Any advice you could give would be very much appreciated!

Haha, yes, Saint John’s Wood. 🫣

If I were to have a wishlist, it would be: -High caliber training -Nurturing, friendly teachers -A ballet production or two per year (vs just a recital.) -Supportive student/parent culture -Decent studio organization….ie parents know expectations and important dates a couple months ahead of time. We are in a non-English country now, and the language barrier has caused my daughter to struggle to make friends with classmates. I think she is looking for challenging dance, but also to find friends with similar interests.

Hello. We are considering a possible move to London. Locations along the Jubilee Line between St James Wood and the River appear to make the most sense. My daughter is 10 and does ballet. Are there any good studio recommendations easily accessible from this area?

I know so many ex pre-pro dancers who are doing fabulous in non-dance careers! It’s worth giving the dance dream a shot, but there is a fabulous life-long non-dance career waiting for each one of these girls and boys too. (Just to infuse positivity to some of the posters who regret going down the dance path.) And with regard to the US: It is a big country with a lot of dancers. I don’t think you are seeing better training. I think you are just seeing probability x population.

But what’s more about this topic: I have read a lot about overuse injuries in children who specialize in a sport too early. It has caused me to really rethink my inclination to mindlessly ‘keep up’ with all the hours others are spending on dance. We are trying to keep up with her age group but not do more.

I hope women don’t act or dance in order to be ‘seen’ in a society that doesn’t necessarily value them. That thought makes me sad. Art involves a lot of ‘taking yourself out of your own brain’ to please others. And artists are always walking that tether between the real and the imaginary. I think artists explore realms of thought that aren’t always accessible to more pragmatic people, and those realms of thought are usually fraught with deep emotion. …that’s my ‘more romantic’ view of why artists can be prone to mental illness. Their greatest strengths are also their weaknesses.

Hairnets completely changed the game for us. We can use a soft ponytail holder, loosely coil her hair, and then the hair net holds it in place. We pin the edges of the net with a ‘tuck under’ type motion, with silicone-coated pins. (The hairnet let’s us do the same style with less tightness, and it still stays put. I think technically the style is called a flat bun…at least that is what one of the older girls told us when showing me.) I’ve also started using an oil-infused leave-in conditioner in place of gel. It gets rid of all the fly-aways. Makes her hair greasy at first…. but after she takes out her bun, it has diffused/absorbed enough that it looks fine until the next wash.

Agree with the comments above. Balanchine isn’t really a teaching method. As such, you really shouldn’t see a school claiming to teach Balanchine. But Americans love the fairytale-esque ballets Balanchine made popular, so you will see a lot of those. And a lot of Nutcracker. (We are Nutcracker nuts, and many schools do a full length Nutcracker every year.) And haha, now that I have been taught to spot the claw hands, I see those from time to time in some schools styles. Some posters have mentioned American ballet being faster. I don’t know about that. I’ll probably insult someone by saying this but…. I think many US schools (even good ones) let their kids be a little sloppy on technique in favor of trying more fun moves like leaps and turns at a younger age. And let me explain…. The US seems to start basic technique, leaps, turns and everything else very young and then develop and refine as the students get older. Here in Europe, basic technique needs to be near perfect before the school even thinks about starting single pirouettes. So if I extrapolate that: I suspect your daughter will really impress US teachers with fabulous technique….but may find herself dancing with girls who can whip out some pretty crazy turns. But I also think any school would be quite interested in incorporating a student who learned in the UK. I suspect there will be some natural curiosity, which should work in your daughter’s favor. Americans tend to hold European ballet training in high regard.

Oh, and dance Teams! That is a whole separate discussion, and has become quite popular in the US. Unless that is something you are specifically interested in exploring, you may want to look for schools that don’t over-emphasize their Teams. (Team genre is rarely ballet.)

We moved in the opposite direction (US to Europe) but with a younger-aged dancer. You have to be a little more careful finding a good school in the US. All the schools tend to ‘glitz’ up their marketing, and it can be quite deceiving. I recommend looking for a school that can show you a curriculum and clearly articulate the schedule per level. Schools with an ‘a la carte’ program and ‘do as much as you can’ mentality tend to reward the kids who put in more hours. This doesn’t always correlate with a feeling of fairness or achievement. Also, be prepared to pay more money. If I compare my daughter’s ballet in US vs Europe, I was paying $40/hr in US vs $11/hr in Europe. This was before all the hidden fees. US has fees for everything…registration, performances, tryouts, costumes, intensives, etc. And quite a few dance schools have their own team or company….which also comes with more fees. In EU, we only have one fairly modest show fee…at least for now. If you are in an area with a professional ballet that has an affiliated school, I would definitely look into it. You will probably find it has the best quality training for moderate cost….and is most consistent with what you find in UK. As for style: Lots of beautiful ballet on both sides of the ocean. The styles of ballet training aren’t that different. I hear a number of schools say they teach a Russian style, but that is rarely the case in the US….or very loosely based. Contemporary, Modern and Jazz in the US are quite different, but the skills translate quite effectively I think. You might just warn your daughter that the popular moves and patterns will look different. Lots of courage to you, and PM me if you have other questions. Honestly, moving overseas with a child in dance made me quite nervous (and still does), as it is an activity where the training is somewhat specific to the culture of the country. But at the same time, dancers benefit from being versatile….and what better way to be versatile than to train in another country? I have to think there are cons, but there have to be pros too.

This appears to be Contemporary and Choreography, but the world needs more lady choreographers. https://www.parts.be/studios2021

This makes me think about how differently instrumental and vocal solo and ensemble competitions were handled when I was in school. The participants (solo or small group) were assessed on a 1-5 scoresheet, with judges giving both positive and constructive feedback in different categories. There was no winner or group recognition. The participants could decide if they wanted to share or not share their results (but copies were provided to the music teacher, so he/she could improve their program.) This seems so much more healthy, as you were competing against your own personal best….and students paid a lot of attention to the judges’ comments, not just who ‘won.’ There was also very little shaming, as quite a few students just didn’t want to share their results….regardless of whether their score was high or low. Competitions with winners (1st, 2nd, 3rd) were reserved for large groups, where you can go through all the emotional ups and downs with your group members. I think the need to recognize dance solo ‘winners’ is not productive. What is it actually trying to accomplish, except a lot of hurt feelings? I ‘think’ students do these competitions for the stage experience and the challenge to be their own personal best…..so why make them compete against other dancers? And frankly, if the answer is placement at vocational schools and summer programs, let the recruiters sit in the audience and reach out privately to a student if they like the student’s performance. The same thing is accomplished in a much more respectful manner. I think a lot of dance culture needs a serious overhaul. Keep the good things…..but we all need to work to get rid of the damaging things.

Valentina, very helpful! Thank you! We have changed studios a couple of times by necessity. Frankly, this forum as been SO helpful in providing advice in finding our current studio, which is the best of those we’ve tried. I still struggle to spot quality. I feel like I’ve gotten better at spotting red flags. Here are the ones that (in hindsight) I should have spotted earlier: - Studio that oversells what they are. They tell you about all their aspirations, but you sense they haven’t quite reached them yet. - Clear favoritism, either with parents or students and usually tied to personal friendships with the staff. - Desire to ‘sell more.’ Private lessons are pushed as an ‘advancer’ for all students. - The teachers waste a lot of time getting the kids organized, music on etc. Or your dancer comes back not feeling ‘well worked’ or challenged. - Older girls’ progress. By teen years, I feel like I can compare skill to what I see by professional dancers….so it is a little easier to judge. The worst are the ‘in between’ schools….as you spend a lot of time figuring out if they are a good fit. They may have some great characteristics and also some real faults. The hard thing is that I am still terrible at figuring all this out when trialing a school. We are usually 6 months in-attendance before I seem to spot some of these things. ….and changing schools is hard on my daughter. Though, in our case, we move quite often so that has really been the trigger for switching schools.

This is a great discussion! PlainJaney has a really good point. Especially if you don’t have dance experience, it is really hard to recognize ‘quality.’ I’d love to hear the attributes others look for in quality training or quality dance experiences. (Though I recognize some of the posters have already made some very good and specific recommendations along these lines.)

Though - haha - recognize if I haven’t picked up the answer in previous moves, then maybe there is no right answer.

She’ll be 10-11. The move will not be in the UK. We have moved several times for work when she was younger, and finding new dance schools has been trial and error. Now that she is older, hoping for it to be less ‘error.’

Ahhh, sorry, might not have been clear… Based on the timing, she’s going to be going into audition/placements after a long summer break and move. I’m worried I’m setting her up for a situation where she won’t be in the condition or mindset to do her best. …but don’t really know what I can do: I thought of maybe having her take some recreational classes for a month after the move, prior to looking at her favorite schools. Or seeing if her current studio could video her barre at the end of this current year, before the long break. Maybe I am overthinking all of this. Everyone has some reconditioning after holidays, right? And levels can always be changed later. Thought maybe a parent has some advise from a similar situation. ….or a teacher can comment on whether this is even a relevant concern.

We might be relocating over the summer. Unfortunately, this may leave my daughter auditioning/placing at new schools after summer holiday and a stressful move. Any tips?

Any summer intensive aligned with a top US ballet company with be well-run and professional. I suspect you will see a lot of teens attending, so the room-and-board options might be set up to oversee minors. I would inquire if you get the freedom to come-and-go, given you age.

I think the cultures that push young dancers faster, also see them burn-out faster. …not to mention, much higher chance of injury early in a career. I’ve heard at least one professional suggest that the systems that create these child protégées may not be setting the children up for long careers. (Long being relative, of course, in ballet.)

Millicent, wow, that may be a hard topic to address with a friend? Good luck! I can only imagine that they are already very excited about the prospects of pointe. I agree with the other posters who mentioned that ‘early pointe’ is probably more about increasing the school’s enrollment than actually teaching pointe. Someone had also mentioned the adolescent growth spurt. Yes! Even if there were no dangers, does it really make sense to learn pointe prior to all these body changes? It seems like there would be a lot of relearning to do! Also seems to support the earlier point….that ‘early pointe’ may be superfluous to the dancer, even if not a detriment. (Though if there is a question of health, why risk it?)