Fonty

Has anyone seen Morera in the role? And is the partnership with Kish likely to be a good one? I don't really know him at all.

I find this comment baffling. Are you saying that a new audience is being put off coming to the ballet because they are not allowed to talk during the performance, text or take flash photos on their mobiles, eat noisily from crackly bags of food, push past others during the performance, bob about, snog their partners and various other types of behaviour that have been complained about on the "tedious and massive" audience behaviour thread? Are you saying that sitting quietly and watching the performance is an example of outdated, middle class, right wing political views? Or are you saying something else and I have totally misunderstood?

I don't see anyone who looks like me performing ballet either! Ballet dancers resemble aliens from another planet as far as I am concerned, with their extreme slenderness and extraordinary flexibility. I am always amazed that the body can do the things they manage to do, and do it with a smile as well. They don't look human at all. Edited to add that I went to see a play at the Young Vic some years ago, which was based around a particular part of Africa and its religion. It was very funny, and sold out months in advance. I can't remember the name off hand. However, I did notice that at the Saturday matinee my friend and I were the only white people in the audience. Although I didn't understand some of the in jokes that were clearly relevant to those from that particular background, I didn't feel "unwelcome.".

While that is to be applauded, I find it slightly sad that people would only be persuaded to go and watch something because someone of their own racial background has enjoyed success in that particular field. I've heard the same arguments about classical music, Shakespearian drama, tennis...the list goes on and on. Is skin colour the only thing that will attract certain people to one of those events? .

Excellent suggestion! Or alternatively, just borrow it when BRB don't need it.

Hmmmm. So, no Nutcracker over the Christmas period then? Well, that will make a nice change.

Actually, there was something else that was distracting me on Wednesday night. Sitting behind me was a mother with her two small daughters, who looked about seven or eight. As soon as the curtain went up, they started to ask questions. "What's happening?" "Why is that man looking sad?" "Who are those ladies?" The mother kept explaining in a whisper, as they passed a large crackling bag of crisps back and forth. Eventually I turned round and shushed them very loudly, and to be fair they did quieten down, but I could still hear the occasional query being answered. Most annoying. I don't blame the children, but what was the mother thinking, not giving them the outline before they came? When Von Rothbart steps on stage and you hear "Who is he?" coming from behind you, you do wonder what on earth they were making of it all.

I agree that it didn't, and it was indeed a lovely performance. I am not bothered by fouettes anyway, and I certainly would not mark down a dancer because they didn't complete the full set. However, I just thought the performance on the previous night was better all round IMO. The only reason I mentioned the audience was because it is very unusual to get that sort of whooping and shouting throughout the evening at a ballet performance. I've only experienced something like it at sports events. Maybe I was sitting behind her real life Romeo?

Can I just say that until it was pointed out in an article afterwards, I hadn't even noticed that Celine Gittens was black. It never registered with me at all. I simply saw a beautiful swan. And when Carlos Acosta started dancing with the Royal Ballet, I never thought, "Goodness, a black Principal." I just thought, "Wow, what an incredible dancer."

I haven't seen any other reviews of the Shang/Morales performance, was anyone else there on Wednesday night? If I hadn't already seen Gittens and Singleton on Tuesday, I would probably have enjoyed it hugely. As it was, I felt that Wednesday evening was a very slight let down. Shang was very good as Odette, but she didn't convince me that she was a swan queen in the same way that Gittens had, nor did she have the same seductiveness as Odile. With Gittens, you could feel the evil shimmering just underneath the surface, and this conveyed itself right up into the roof where I was sitting. With much better seats on Wednesday in the stalls, I just didn't get the same feeling. Morales danced wonderfully, but again I felt there was something missing, a slight sense of aloofness in his partnership with Shang. Regarding the other parts, I enjoyed Chou's relaxed and smiling Benno as much as Bracewell's the night before, and I thought the two Courtesans were better (Baselga and Brill). However, I did miss the haughtiness of Downs' Polish princess, and there was no outraged expression from Albutashvili as she lined up with her competitors. Shame; it made us all laugh on Tuesday. Everyone else was excellent, and the corps were great. It was great to see the swans rise up from the mist in Act IV. When you are up in the gods you can see them clearly before they move, so the effect is not as good. Some other thoughts generally. Watching groups of dancers, I find there is always one person who catches my eye. On Wednesday, one of the Prince's companions really stood out for me. Casting my eye over the dancers' photos, I think it might have been Luke Schaufuss. Shang didn't manage the fouettes in Act 3, losing her balance near the start attempting to insert double pirouettes into the sequence, and giving up half way through. She covered it well, and managed to do something else without losing her composure, but it made me think yet again as to why the trend now seems to be to try and make it even more difficult than it already is. The trouble is, if it goes wrong it is like forgetting the words half way through the To Be or Not to Be speech in Hamlet. Everyone knows what you are supposed to be doing, so the mistake is obvious. And I still live in hopes that someone will come up with a different party piece to show their own particular skill. Still, she obviously had a large group of fans who whooped and cheered at every possible opportunity as if they were staching Strictly Come Dancing, and gave her a standing ovation at the end. But for me, the whole thing never reached the heights of Tuesday's performance.

Yes, Janet, I agree. I don't think the title is rude in any way. In fact, it has started a thoughtful and interesting discussion ranging over a variety of issues. Which is exactly what a chat forum is for, isn't it?

Well, clearly Mr Pasha prefers the muscular Russian style of dancing. I agree that in some of the more showy ballets this is wonderful. However, there is a fine balance between athleticism and artistry, and many times the Russians prefer the former over the latter, to the detriment of the whole piece. IMO of course.

Absolutely agree, Alison. I have no problem with someone coming from Berlin, or any other company for that matter, as a guest Principal with the RB, if they have a unique talent that cannot be filled by any current dancer in the RB's ranks. I am sure Salenko is a very good dancer, I never doubted that for one minute. I wasn't questioning her pedigree, merely the fact that she has been invited specially to dance in an Ashton ballet that hasn't been performed for years in London. She doesn't appear to be a noted Ashton dancer, unless, of course, the information I have found on the web is lacking updates, and she has been dancing the Young Girl to universal acclaim all round the world. So the answer appears to be that she has been brought in specially as a partner for McRae in this ballet. Which brings a whole new set of questions to mind!

I was there last night, and agree with everything Bruce says. Absolutely fantastic performances, and a production that for once seems to make perfect sense of the story. I didn't feel there was one wasted moment of that glorious music. Gittens was sensational as O/O, one of the very few dancers I have seen who really made the differences between the two believable. And I loved the real sense of camaraderie between Singleton and Bracewell. If there was one small criticism, it was the pace of the music in the second act during the main pas de deux. I got the feeling that there were moments of slight hesitation, almost as if both the conductor and the dancers were waiting for each other to set the pace. Probably my imagination, but that's how it felt as I was watching. Other than that, a wonderful evening with superb dancing. Unbelievable to think that I paid less for my ticket up up in the gods than I did for my cinema ticket to see the live performance of R & J! Off again tonight to sit in the posh seats, and really looking forward to seeing it from a different angle.

Has O'Hare said publicly why he has brought in Salenko to dance in Two Pigeons? I don't really know anything about her. It has been a while since I saw that particular ballet, but I would have thought the Young Girl would be an ideal role for some of the younger dancers mentioned. Not as exhausting as some of the full length ballets, but with plenty of opportunity to display their dramatic qualities as well as their dancing. And London audiences love to see home grown dancers getting their chances, especially in such a delightful ballet.

I certainly don't think the idea of going back to the original should be deplored, but I think it depends on the ballet, doesn't it? For example, I have seen so many different productions of the Sleeping Beauty, I have no idea whether I am looking at it as the creator intended, or whether it has been tweaked and fiddled with. Programme notes are not always very helpful. Sometimes they say "addtional choregraphy by X, Y or Z", but I am never sure which bits are original and which are the additions. For example, was the original Lilac Fairy a dancing or non dancing part? When I saw the 1959 production by the Royal Ballet on the television recently, I adored the dancing Lilac Fairy. IMO, it was a huge improvement on the rather staid, non dancing figure that features in many productions!

Oh that really is shocking. An unbelievable way to behave. After all, it is a retirement home, so they must be used to having to deal with situations like that. I agree with everything Sim says.

I didn't reaslise that Ball was only a First Artist.

HI everyone, thanks for the suggestions. The reason I probably won't go in museums is we are not really there for long enough, and I think so much of the beauty of Venice is best seen from the outside, looking at those wonderful views. My friend has booked the Secret Passages tour of the Doges' Palace. Seems we get to see the dungeons and the torture chamber!

MAB, I did say that personally I enjoyed Fonteyn's performance, and I could understand the commercial reasons for the RB's superstars being used in the cinema film. The same thing happens today with the live broadcasts. Whether that individual is the best performer of the role is a subject for hot debate on this forum. I am sure Fonteyn was admired in the role. Was there ever a time when anybody criticised her in anything? However, it is a matter of public record that MacMillan had to alter some of the original choreography for her, and Nureyev just altered bits to display his own strengths (and presumably to hide any weaknesses). Having read about Seymour, she seems to have been a much more dramatic, abandoned sort of dancer. I imagine the contrast between her performance and Fonteyn's might have shocked some of the critics. I think it is a tragedy that there is no record of Seymour's Juliet, even if it was just classroom performances of the major pas de deux. MacMillan himself considered her his muse, after all, and she had huge input in the creation of the role. It should have been preserved for future generations. Incidentally, i know nothing at all about Christopher Gable. Is there any film of Gable's Romeo?

I think it is most unfortunate that the only proper record of the orginal MacMillan production is the film starring Fonteyn and Nureyev. I can understand that from a commercial point of view, this cast was much more likely to sell, but it is such a pity that future generations would get their impressions from Fonteyn's performance, rather than Seymour's, so we have no lasting record of what was actually intended. I remember reading that Fonteyn flatly refused to adopt some of the poses, replacing them with her own elegant, more lady-like positions, and that Nureyev also altered the choreography to suit himself. Personally, I happen to think that Fonteyn gives a great performance, and Nureyev was always had an animal magnetism, no matter what part he was playing. But I still would have liked to have seen how the two creators of the roles played the parts. I am sure those were, or should have been, the performances by which all others should have measured themselves.

I am having second thoughts about booking anything, and I might take up your ideas about simply walking. 72 hour pass on the vaporetto is something I had considered, and would really enjoy, although I suppose it does depend on the weather a little bit. I found a little clip of the Secret Passages walk, and I remembered that I had done it before on my last trip to Venice. When I was 9 years old!

Last year I went to Paris for a couple of days, and asked people on here for some ideas as to what would be some interesting walks and places to visit away from the usual museums and art galleries. I received some excellent suggestions, so I thought I would post again. This year, we are all off to Venice for 4 nights. I haven't been for years, and am getting a bit overwhelmed by the guide books. They seem to suggest that you have to book up for everything in advance, and as we don't know what we want to see yet, that is proving a bit difficult. Someone recommended the Secret Passages tour of the Doge's Palace, which shows you the prisons and the place where Casanova was kept prisoner. Trouble is, it says not suitable for people with vertigo. While I don't suffer from that, I am not dead keen on heights. Many years ago I had to be carried down over someone's shoulder after some idiot took me up into the roof to admire the ceiling of the cathedral in Florence, and we had to cross a flimsy walkway with an uninterrupted view going straight down into the cathedral below! If anyone else has done this tour, I would be grateful to know just what sort of heights are involved. Any suggestions or tips gratefully received.

I always think that as well. It helps if Juliet does a realistic stagger backwards after stabbing herself, so that she falls elegantly backwards over the death bed.

I don't count, but I do notice if the dancer falls out of time with the music by trying to be clever and attempting to do doubles or triples.