hfbrew

I agree with you Spanner, the last sentence of my last post implies that all dancers not at vocational school are recreational which is certainly not the case at all! If a student is, as you say doing enough quality training and is ready, then of course they shouldn't have to wait (unless of course they are too young). I should have clarified that some vocational students are not necessarily at vocational school! Sorry!

There is really no virtue in putting a young child on pointe before age 12. I have very,very rarely allowed older 11 year olds but only if I felt their feet were strong enough and they only did a minimal amount . These particular students were doing a lot of dancing and were very nearly 12 anyway. Most of my students are older when they start and I was gratified when a couple of very talented students who had tried to pressure me actually thanked me for making them wait once they appreciated just how strong they needed to be. As for "overseas" dancers I am certain that Ailna Cojocaru(one of my favourites) for example would have been just as phenomenal as she is if she had gone on point three years later and she very possibly would not have the bunions that are sadly evident when she dances. And many overseas dancers train in Britain for a reason- they know that the training is good, but also that there is generally a lot more awareness about safe dance practice here. I have been privileged to watch classes at vocational schools and can say that all the students regardless of Nationality are worthy of their places, the British students certainly hold their own. Many students from overseas that I have observed can indeed perform "virtuoso" work but sadly quite often at the expense of placement, line , quality and musicality. Many British graduates end up in European companies, we do very well considering Britain is tiny compared to other Nations . Obviously in Europe, British dancers are the "overseas" dancers and are being employed over and above native dancers. I think this is great, just as I think its great that we see very talented dancers of all nationalities in British companies.Whatever your Nationality getting to professional level is extremely hard, getting a contract is harder and all dancers who achieve this should be congratulated. For every dancer who makes it there are many who don't, this is true of all Nationalities. The question" what is the best age to start pointe work" is probably therefore best answered with the fact that it depends on the student and the circumstances. Talented, vocational students who are deemed strong enough should not be younger than in their twelfth year whereas others are best advised to wait until later, especially if they are recreational students and not at vocational school.

Thats really useful information, thankyou! We don't use our studios for vocational exams as we find that parents and students appreciate the higher standard required at this level if the exam is taken at Headquarters. (our nearest venue.) It helps makes the distinction between graded exams and vocational.

Yes but apparently photo id is still required at vocational level- a bit bizarre as the teacher knows her own students, but there you go. Your teacher should be able to help advise you and certainly do check options with the RAD.

Do check. they are very strict. Even my son who once had his nappy changed on the then major exams desk and considered the lovely ladies his "aunties" who gave him biscuits every Friday morning when I taught at headquarters and have since followed his progress- had to ask for id at his adv 2 exam! There was (or used to be) even one of his cv dance shots on a desk but rules are rules and no exceptions made.

Yes it was! Thanks, its been bugging me that I couldn't remember!

Thankyou. Am about to do my last school run (DS has been at home this past year). Would have to be a bloody early one though!

Polka was done in both primary and grade one. Grade onealso had pas marches!! Birdcage polka was primary, teachers made up their own dances for grade one- I did one called Cherry Ripe which was a sad dance about a girl trying and failing to sell cherries! Really appealed to my dramatic sense! Branch dance for grade 2 (think alternative was Breton) tarentella grade 3, russian grade 4 and variation in senior grade which was added in 1979. These syllabi were kept until 1992 although some changes were made such as adding extra pirouette training exercises and simplfying some exercises. Now we are on a whole new syllabus and I feel very old but also very blessed to have such a wealth of material to draw upon. I actually taught the Tarentella last week- the students loved bashing the tambourines!

I'm proud of him too . I wish him every success, he so deserves it. Saw my ds in his last school performance on Wednesday. He graduates Saturday. Think I've forgotten how to breathe..... About to unfasten the seatbelt and step off the rollercoaster now! And I may be able to afford a trip to the hairdressers now!

Well I am not surprised, as I understand it Freeds are very hot on training their staff to fit shoes correctly. And if by any chance the fitter had danced herself then she would know what she was talking about. Sounds like excellent service. I have known Freeds to refuse to sell shoes if none were suitable. Actually this was common practice years ago when I was a Clarks shoe fitter and were instructed to write on customers receipts if we had expressedly advised against shoes that the customer insisted on buying for their children!! But that was years ago...

It would be good if some professional dancers could come and share their thoughts- because obviously companies vary in their approach to dancers fitness and well being anyway. I've quite often seen footage in ballet interviews/documentries of RBS dancers using gym equipment for example. It would be so interesting to know how much this is used by dancers daily. Certainly at WL a big proportion of daily classes were given over to pilates exercise with pupils given individual exercises to do to address any issues - my ds had to work particularly on his uneven sides! Later on the boys were given upper body training. And classes also began with a thorough cardio vascular warmup, never full plies. Interestingly my ds found that his Tring training in sixth form vastly improved his general fitness, flexibilty and body awareness because of the excellent jazz, contemporary and pilates classes. Although ds would have preferred to do ballet all day, once he joined a classical ballet company he actually complained that his body was missing the all round physical activity it had got used to. Finally I never do a full plie if I can help it- I do noticed a vast difference in my knees and hips when I made a conscious decision not to do them.

Oh for a crystal ball ! I find that some parents expect me to say he/she will make it , others don't always believe me when I say their child has talent. Once case was when a pupil of mine was offered a place at WL from an associate audition and the parents were told by Miss Stock that their child was very good. They said that they hadn't had that said to them before even though me and my colleagues had been saying the same for ages! I also hesitate to say that a child will never make it as a professional dancer as I know from very personal experience that some of the most unlikely people do. So yes, being told you have potential is very positive indeed. We were told by teachers that our DS had talent but in a realistic way and he obviously did or he wouldn't have gone to WL. But so many ingredients are needed to become a successful dancer, its not enough just to have a perfect body, you need the brains, drive, work ethic and passion to match. I do like to be positive to pupils but realistic too. Its very risky telling someone that they have world class potential because whilst it may possibly be true it does raise expectations of parents especially. It can then place enormous pressure on a student especially if its said prior to going to vocational school because it can be quite a shock to find that there are plenty of other students all with the same potential. Under these circumstances its so easy to become disillusioned and lose sight of the fact that the student had to have talent to be accepted in the first place. There really are no guarantees either way other than that if you don't work and commit fully then no you won't become a principal!

You are so right. My DS shone in the National pieces as a young White Lodger. It really gave him a chance to show his performing abilities and musicality.I was more than happy for him to wait until he was more mature before performing classical pieces. Having said that the current White Lodgers were outstanding on Saturday night at the Linbury and their first piece was very classical indeed. They were more together I felt than the Seniors in Raymonda and Paquita!

Will certainly pass this on to DS and friends- just wish I could've said hello as I was there too. It really is a show with something for everyone. I personally liked the pieces that use live music, especially the choir. Queen is another favourite of mine,takes me right back to my youth! Its good to see so many of these vibrant, versatile students get a chance to show what they can do. One young lady for example was beguilingly beautiful in the gorgeous ballet by Miss Rosenheim- then she was equally at home in the "choir" piece I've already mentioned which was contemporary. Then lo and behold there she was giving every ounce of energy and attack in Queen. (and all this with a suspected fractured finger.) And she is not th only student who can do that,,,,pretty much all of them are capable of this. The final showing is at Shaw Theatre on Wednesday . I will be there to support my DS dance for the last time as a student- he probably is on stage for less then three minutes but we really don't mind as the whole show is good to watch.

My sister was taking basketball equipment to a very important match and completely and legally ignored her phone constantly buzzing whilst driving. She arrived at the match complete with equipment but no son to wear it.... she'd left him behind on the doorstep. Funny thing was she'd wondered why the car was so quiet!

More news about Harpenden Summer Dance School, the ballet repertoire will be Giselle! Great fun.

Very possibly. It is a new theatre with excellent acoustics but it was definately as if someone had just cranked up the volume without any thought for clarity!

Bravo Julie!

By the way the dates for Harpenden Summer Dance School are 20-24th August!

If anyone is in the Hertfordshire area then you may be interested to know that there are still plenty of spaces at The Harpenden Summer Dance School.(HSDS). All details found on the website- www.harpendensummerdanceschool.co.uk The venue, Park Hall on Leyton Road is only 5 minutes walk from Harpenden Rail Station which is on the First Capital Connect LIne to St Pancras. (at least 4 trains an hour.) Mary Schon's repertoire classes are particularly popular, many people will know her from Tring Park Classical Ballet Academy. Last year she also piloted the successful Trring summer school which is running again this year. If for any reason you've missed out on the Tring one then this is a good back up! (Afterall the Tring one was partly modelled on HSDS which is now in its 7th year.) I am very happy to announce that Nicola Bowden (from London Junior and Senior Ballet) will once again be one of our guest teachers. Others will be confirmed nearer the time. There is no need to commit to an entire week,I have known some students only ever do one class,although we do feel that its better value if you come all week! The last day is open viewing day so that parents can watch the students. We also hope to repeat the ever popular pas de deux demonstration- this year I've set my DS the task of enticing one of his beautiful partners from Ballet Theatre UK along! Please do join us if you can. Am happy to answer questions, so please feel free to PM me.

Actually thought that particular show was better than last years but then I would as my DS did loads that year.! This year there seem to be more, shorter, pieces with many large groups so that lots of dancers get their chance to perform. Naturally I loved watching my DS but all of the students are great to watch!

A levels definately influenced my DS. He started with four, dropped Biology but got respectable grades in the other three. He particularly enjoyed Theatre Studies!

Stirrups, don't you dare go, please!! I think your point about that its only the views of a minority on here is very valid, as you say there are many vocational parents who don't even know about ballet.co! Please everyone, Margot specifically asked for positive experiences which is why I posted mine earlier. Its been fairly obvious from several threads that some people have good cause to be unsatisfied which Margot has clearly already read and taken on board.She and other students on this forum lucky enough to be going to Tring are already at an advantage as they will be going with their eyes open! As with all the schools my DS has attended, we too have had issues with Tring but I for one wanted to keep to the positives that Margot specifically asked for. So Margot and any others going to Tring, are you by any chance going to see the Tring dance show? If you are going to the one at Shaw Theatre I do hope I see you and say hello! My DS is only on for about 3 minutes but I've really enjoyed watching all of these talented students. I will be watching you next year as I will still have some very happy female students that I know there!

Hi Margot. You may like to know that my DS had the pick of all the major schools bar RBS (and even then he was told at the end of year 11 he stood a good chance if he reauditioned). He has absolutely no regrets about choosing Tring at all. The dance teaching is indeed excellent and he also managed to get three good A levels as well as the diploma. More importantly he has become a much more rounded dancer-I would not have thought when he left WL for example that he'd get to the final round of a DV8 audition! He is now performing professionally and I honestly put this down to the hard work of really lovely, dedicated dance teachers. Some have been to see him dance professionally and I know that they also support other ex students in this way too. My DS chose Tring because he wasn't sure which way to turn after year 11 - he needed to go somewhere where he could explore options and found that after a year, Tring had reignited his passion for performing dance. After 2 years he was a International Cecchetti finalist (out of the British schools Tring had the highest proportion of their entrants through by the way) and his ex WL teachers who were there were not only extremely impressed with the progress he'd made but with the other Tring students too. BallerinaX you are absolutely right in your observation that it is up to the student to take from it what you will- I will offer the same advice as I did to DS and that is to make it work for you. If anything is not right then don't be scared, talk to the teachers. And it is so much better if they hear it from the students first. Incidently when DS did have a blip, the head of dance was one of the first to express concern. They actually wondered whether DS wanted to go elsewhere and offered help! Now I too have had good cause to complain (and have done so with positive results!) but I know people at all the main vocational schools who have had shall we say, less than satisfactory experiences from time to time.You WILL get them,wherever you train. Don't let these get you down, face them directly, learn from them and stay 100% focussed on YOUR chosen path. I see Tring dance students as versatile and, thanks to their all round training able to consider a variety of work. These dancers can actually move. I am afraid that I can't say that about about some students that I've recently seen elsewhere who are really limited to just pure classical ballet and there are precious few jobs wanting just that now. However I would say to anyone out there who has their heart absolutely on just ballet, then think twice about Tring as other establishments will probably suit you better. There you go Margot I hope that has redressed the balance a little! Congratulations to you and Lildancer and anyone else who have got places at Tring, go, work hard and enjoy yourselves. It can't be that bad as two ex students from my local dance schools are staying for a third year having worked very very hard from being in "lower" sets to start with and non funded at that. They are now both funded and in sets of their choice through sheer, polite fighting and proven ability to knuckle down and become the best dancers that they could possibly be.

A fun piece, and an entertaining evening now on tour This is how DaveM describes it and I agree having seen it in Aylesbury yesterday afternoon. JohnRoss in his posting above says *I thought the two groups were great, wonderful energy" And he ts right which leaves me to say that you really are watching two groups with the emphasis heavily on the excellent and fun to watch Flawless. The ENB dancers were beautiful and clearly enjoyed themselves but I didn't feel that they were given equal credit, especially at the end in which each member of Flawless did their own little routine bow whereas the girls took their reverence en masse. Couldn't have they each have have performed some breathtaking Ballet? The storyline is easy to follow, just as well because the sound was so loud that the narration was distorted- also the heavy beat of much of the music was all pervasive. Take earplugs if you've got sensitive ears. Although obviously it doesn't follow that all performances will suffer from this as all Theatres are different. I loved all the dancers and there were some very clever and entertaining scenes played out on a very simply dressed stage, with heavy reliance on the use of projection to move the story along. The routines were all well put together although at times Flawness were not as "tight" as they can be, equally so the ENB dancers were not always together. But everyone performed with enthusiasm. However there was one serious error in my view. There was not one male ballet dancer. I longed for someone like Acosta or McRae to sail over the top of Flawless and show that its not just girls who perform Ballet and that male ballet dancers are pretty impressive too. The only time Ballet was performed by Flawless was to send it up- although they were funny it was sending a message to a young audience that only girls do Ballet ,boys do street. Although I am sure that it was not the shows intention to stereotype Ballet and street in this way, that is how it came across to me and the people who I was with. If a similar "fusion" is ever tried again (and parts of it worked very well), I do hope that greater care is given to the way Ballet in particular is presented so that audiences not familiar with this wonderful art form are not given the impression that it is all pretty girls in pointe shoes and tutus!