hfbrew

Once again, wise words Dancersdad. I would also urge students to also speak out (politely!) if they have any concerns at all. I have found that throughout my DS education that the schools that he has been at have appreciated his ability to say what he thinks. if I have then had cause to write "one of my e-mails" (not very often) my concerns have then not come out of the blue and have usually been dealt with effectively. I would also urge students to keep in touch with their parents! Its great to try and sort out things independently but do keep your parents fully informed of whats going on (good stuff as well as bad!) even if you don't want them involved. .There have been quitre a few situations which could have been avoided if my DS had picked up his phone... The comment about loving unconditionally, well I couldn't agree more. DH and I also always made it quite clear also that it really didn't matter if, after all his training ,DS didn't want to dance professionally. What mattered more is that he has grown into a fine young man who is not afraid to speak out when necessary. i personally would not have dared to say some of the things he has though! But because he is generally quiet and reserved he has had perhaps more impact when he has spoken his mind. Finally,remember that at all schools there will be ups and downs, But if you are generally happy at a school then that is the right place for you, regardless of so called rankings.

I agree with Aurora, please don't go completely! Drop in now and then for a vitual cup of tea!

Oh for a time machine! I would love to see that!

Congratulations Happymum! Please don't worry because the Royal will have had a good look at her feet and certainly would not have taken her if there was a potential long term problem. Many of the JA exercises are specifically for the feet and toes which the students are meant to do daily. You could make sure that you understand exactly what how these shoud be done but rest assured the teacher will be keeping a close eye on how she develops.And as has been mentioned you will have access to the RBS physio who may well have already seen feet like your DD and advise accordingly. Enjoy the journey, however long it lasts! Hope you like rollercoasters......

Brilliant!

I have to agree with Julie, my son was also one of the "weaker" ones but his actual ballet teachers did put just as much ,if not more effort into his training. For example as I've already mentioned he had specific coaching to address the weaknesses that could have led to him also being assessed out. He was one of the lucky ones who survived- the previous year he had a close shave but we were told that they'd taken growth into account. And I have to say that even though DS didn't make it to US, his WL teachers still take an active interest into his progress, and I am sure the same can be said for JulieWs DS too. Sometimes assessing out really is in a pupils best interests as not everyone can thrive in any one school. And this goes full circle to the issue of private lessons. Even in schools where assessing out is not a threat, students may find that they wish to look at other places if their needs aren't being met. And it makes sense to prepare for auditions by having a couple of private lessons if possible, especially if you are seeking a year 12 place when there is no guarantee of sixth form funding from your existing school. I do think being open and honest helps, however unfortunately some schools really do make it quite difficult for students to do this.

I myself have sometimes been asked to take vocational students for private lessons. Sometimes its been to ensure thorough syllabus knowledge before RAD vocational exams, more often its simply been a means of staying in shape over holidays or getting a fresh pair of eyes for a specific problem such as difficulties with fouettes. Much of vocational school teaching is whole class based and even the very best teachers can not give all students one to one attention, especially in a large group. And some students can therefore feel , rightly or wrongly, that they need a couple of private lessons as a result. Incidently when my DS was at WL, the students quite often got coaching in small groups to help address weaknesses. In DS case it was addressing weakness caused by a massive growth spurt. And some teachers also spent a lot of their free time after classes helping or advising students. But obviously some vocational schools have much larger classes which will inevitably impact on one to one attention.

The question is whether people believe that ex professional dancers make better teachers than those who haven't been professional dancers. In my view, yes people do believe this to be so which saddens me as many of the best teachers I've come across did not have have a performing career. And some of the worst, or most unpleasant teachers had been professionals but had no empathy with struggling students, poor classroom skills and a tendency to address only the "chosen" few. I have unfortunately also come across 1 or 2 dancers who are clearly just filling in between contracts who simply don't care whether the students are working or not. I do think it is important for vocational students to be taught by ex professional dancers- some are fabulous and are able to help make the transition from student to professional. When looking at vocational schools I was careful to look at actual teaching qualifications, however well known a person was. Of course there are teachers with many qualifications who are mediocre at best but it mattered to me if someone, whatever their background had clearly made some commitment to teacher training and was up to date with teaching practices. Many of my vocational school teachers did not dance professionally but they were the ones who helped me the most as they had a better understanding as to why ballet doesn't come naturally to the majority! The teachers that were ex professionals were not nearly as approachable- their skills lay more in the teaching of repertoire; I was so lucky to have the best of both worlds. Now Im a teacher myself my proudest moment was when my DS, after three years of WL turned round suddenly and said "wow Mum you really are a bloody good teacher!" Now I did dance professionally for a very short time but I honestly don't think it makes me better than many of my excellent colleagues who didn't have that experience. Although ex students of mine have gone to Royal, Tring, Hammond, Central and ENBS I don't pretend that it was all down to my teaching- rather the ability to realise when a student needs to go elsewhere having gone as far as they can at the schools I teach at. Afterall its not just about the quality of teaching at non vocational schools, its whether the most gifted dancers are able to do class with similarly minded and able students. Keep having to edit spellling!!!

Short answer, is yes the forum is read by teachers and schools But as far as Im aware there are policies at least at some establishments which prevent them from giving their side of events.

This is where your invaluable advice is so important, I am sure that many people on this forum will be grateful that you've highlighted this little known fact about DaDas. I am just very sad that it came a bit too late for your DS. You are right that its not easy to change, especially if you are on a DaDa as you can only have one of these. So I definately echo the advice to address concerns immediately. However if a student is unhappy all the time then they should reconsider options. Afterall excellent places such as Central are funded differently, Rambert is another. I know quite a few older students continuing their training elsewhere having found that their existing school is not right for them. Obviously if you've already been in receipt of a DaDa this does restrict options but there are plenty of other avenues- Laban is another that springs to mind. But changing schools issues is probably best discussed elsewhere. This thread was purely a question about ranking which means some valuable advice might get lost- for example the point you make about DaDa. I am sure many other parents would have liked to have known this.

Sadly, there are lots of parents who feel the same way about other ballet schools. I know several who are very disillusioned with Elmhurst and more to have good cause to have concerns about RBS. And I also know many, many people who love these places, including Tring. Everyones experiences and perceptions are different. So whilst this question was about rankings it just goes to show that you really shouldn't set too much store by them. Don't automatically assume that RBS is the best place to train for you because its apparently "the top". Likewise don't be put off by others bad experiences, as you wont necessarily have them. If you do, do as I did and address the people concerned. And anyone who is really unhappy should look elsewhere as has been discussed on another thread.

As you are talking "purely ballet", then yes, Elmhurst is generally considered 2nd in line, but I have heard of people preferring places there over RBS! I have also found that when talking to people not in the ballet world that they have quite often heard of Tring but not Elmhurst or Hammond! This is just me trying to give a straight forward answer to the question, but I wholeheartedly agree with all the above posters that it is all subjective anyway and very much depends on what is the best place for individuals. I spoke to one well known teacher the other day who said that it doesn't matter where you start, its where you finish (we were talking about my now professional ds whom she has known since WL days.) DS didn't get into US but was one of the first of his original WL year to get work. I have found that all of the schools have excellent training overall. But I have also found some of the weakest teaching at the supposedly best schools and the strongest at the supposedly weakest.

Do try London Junior Ballet. Having known Nicola Bowden as one of the annual guest teachers at Harpenden Summer Dance School, I can certainly recommend her as an excellent teacher.

I remember watching yr11 boys and wondering how on earth my gangly long son had got a place- there was no way in a million years that he was going to be able to ever get to that standard! But as one teacher said when I queried "why him" , "well they obviously saw something".! (she hadn't seen him at that point!) And thankfully I was proved wrong! Briging up our children costs a lot whatever their path in life. Many of my DS friends from primary school are now at University on their expensive loans which makes the cost of my sons auditions small by comparison. And whilst we will be still helping him out for some time to come it still won;t be as much as some University students parents! My tip is to save up as much family allowance as you can (if you are still allowed it!) Also all birthday money etc- doing this really helped towards the cost of flights and accomodation abroad. And like someone who has already posted, treat it as a sightseeing trip as well!

Very wise words indeed. I do hope plenty of people read this and realise they do not have to be trapped in a place that hasn't lived up to expectations. I too am sorry to about your DS situation. And so glad that he has secured work nonetheless! It might also be worth knowing that Central will occasionally take students from age 18/19, especially talented young men. Obviously Dancersdad DS won't need this now but others might like to be aware. Obviously once a student has used a DaDa, they can not be awarded another but that doesn't stop them going to places like Central that are funded differently. I know someone who is taking up a place at Rambert having had a DaDa elsewhere but not been happy with the training. I do wish all schools/institutes would take care to give all the students in their care equal opportunities,support and consideration. My ds has experienced one extreme to the other in terms of positive attention during training, we have definately seen both sides of the coin! All schools have their pros and cons, they can not please everyone. But a dance student can only have their training once and if they are really not happy then it pays to see what other opportunities there are.

You lucky thing! Please report back. I really wanted to see them but unfortunately none of the dates co-incide with my very rare free days/evenings. Please say hello to old friends!

Wise words Julie. We too were lucky in that DS actually only had three auditions abroad before getting work but one of his friends went to just about every audition last year. Auditions are rarely at convenient times and often involve at least one overnight stay on top of considerable transport costs. And then theres travel insurance to consider. Also the cost of photos and videos that need to be done prior to auditioning. And then theres the cost to our nerves waiting at home wondering if they actually boarded the right plane!

Interesting point though I must admit that not one I ever thought of as I don't associate the word theatre with spoken word in particular. It certainly didn't put me off seeing Northern, quite the opposite in fact because with that particular company you knew you would be seeing dancers who could also act with every fibre of their beings. They can be relied on always to give a good show, not just dancers but staging,costume and narrative choreography- thats what good theatre is about afterall. But I entirely understood why the name changed to Northern Ballet. The person I met last Saturday had not gone expecting spoken drama in particular, she was there as a paid carer for someone whose mum thought they'd like the ballet.She (the carer) hadn't come across ballet before! Hopefully she and her charge were converted, shame the mother couldn't come too!

Indeed he does and I've never seen him so happy!

Thats because they haven't been finalised yet- see my previous e-mail above! But rest assured I will alert everyone when the dates are confirmed! Thankyou all for your interest.

Back next season with " A Christmas Carol". The promotional video is on the website but tour dates aren't finalised yet. Its a completely new production. Enjoy Munich Julie and don't forget to report back!

Hi Spanner, have sent you a pm!!

Just to say that I saw this again twice at the weekend, at Andover and Rickmansworth. On Saturday the dancers were pratically in the audience the venue being so tiny but they pulled off the performance admirably. It really struck me just how accomplished they all are- barely a sound from theit pointe shoes- I've heard louder from the back of the Royal Opera House. And the actual staging is top notch with breathtakingly beautiful costumes. There was no room for the bed at Andover but the reawakening scene still worked. On Sunday I took some pupils to the depressingly poorly attended performance at Rickmansworth. Claire Corruble was fabulous as Carabosse and Natalie Cawte equally so as the Lilac Fairy. Kazuke Oike was sparkling as Aurora. I was just very sad that more young dancers in particular had not been taken to see this particular production. My young students were enthralled, at just 2 hours long it wasa perfect afternoons entertainment and their parents were very impressed too. My main reason for posting though was to say that on Saturday I sat with half a dozen people who had NEVER seen any ballet before to the extent that one didn't know that there wasn't any words! I also observed many audience members, who being elderly or otherwise clearly had mobility probrems and it really hit home to me just what an important job companies such as BTUK are doing. There is no way some of these lovely people would be anle to go and see ballet normally. And one lady said to me that she couldn't risk the expense of going into London to see Ballet only to find she didn't like it.. But she did love Saturdays performance and as a result will probably now try to see more Ballet. There are still 4 performances left of Sleeping Beauty, dates on the Ballet Theatre UK website. Don't miss it! Please go and support them if you can. Or any other touring company coming close to you!

Yes. But its not a great salary and they are still liable for the school fees even though they are not often in school at the moment. Lots of students at other places such as RBS also get contracts midway through their training and are in similar positions.If their funding was suddenly withdrawn then the parents would be left with a huge bill if they havent had the time to give a full terms notice. Many companies can't wait until the end of a school year and in this day and age students have to take the jobs if they come up. Also don't forget that a requirement of DaDa is to complete the diploma. And these particular students have worked very hard to get that by attending whenever they can and communication by e-mail. Tring have been excellent in providing long distance support, unlike some institutions who won't let their students even audition whilst in training,Tring is much more realistic about todays job market. Many dance students have to do extra work such as waiting, bar staff, teaching etc to make ends meet even if they are funded. So it is not uncommon for students to have jobs whatever they may be. If funding was withdrawn once a dancing job came up then it kind of defeats the object of funding the best students anyway- schools have to be able to demonstrate that they have chosen those who are employable afterall. And don't forget that the schools will have already received that funding for those students. If they (the students) had to wait until the end of the school year before accepting work then we would have many more unemployed dancers who would then have to wait until the autumn for the next round of auditions. And as Ive already said the students are still liable for fees- I'm paying an awful lot of money for just a few school dinners at the moment! But at least DS can get three weeks worth of training as from next week.

Got this fact wrong!! All three did take part in Spring term events but only one made the Grad show. Thought I d better make the correction before someone else did!! Sorry! But the three I am talking about are definately stiil students and are a bit miffed to have so easily been forgotten. They are all back at school next week which will feel very strange. However they are delighted to know that they are now going to be working continously until 2014 at least if they wish