glowlight

Lots of thoughts regarding C4D's early morning post.... the hardest part for me is trying to answer her contant doubts about whether she is physically right for ballet... Tough one this one....she can't be too far off otherwise they wouldn't have offered her a place. Even those who are right at eleven may not be by the time they're 16, so she has to take this one on trust if she decides she wants to continue. You could seek an honest opinion from teachers, but bodies change so much in the teenage years its almost not worth worrying about As a mum I feel very guilty having allowed her to go through the whole process in the first place Imagine the guilt you would have felt when she got to be an adult and asked why you never let her try.... Obviously she feels like her dream has come to an end and will now be saying goodbye to her very dear friends who will be going off to dance school making it whole lot harder for her this is the harshest cut of all, and makes it quite difficult sometimes to have close friendships with fellow dancers. I DO believe things happen for a reason and I remain a strong believer in I couldn't agree more. I often think when things don't go how you want its so that you can be in the right place for what's right for you. Fingers crossed that something wonderful is round the corner. If your dd wants to dance, this won't stop her. Infact it will probably make her more determined. And if she decides its not for her, nothing lost, she's had fun while it lasted. If she keeps going - be prepared for lots more sleepless nights....it doesn't get any easier (lol)!

I have heard that, for some families bursaries can be more beneficial than MDS, because they are not means tested.

Mumofballetmaddaughter posted a very comprehensive post about Northern Ballet School in http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/547-anyone-looking-at-vocational-courses-for-2013/

Unless Performers put everyone on the reserve list (and it may be worth phoning the college to check on this) I would have thought the chances could be quite good. There is a lot of reshuffling at this time as people awarded Dada's at one place may well have offers at several, so have to make a choice. So I'm sure there is a chance, but equally I'm sure you don't want to get your dd's hopes up to high only to be dashed again. Fingers crossed for a positive and speedy outcome.

Aileen is correct that people suffering from eating disorders will go to great extremes to hide it, but equally weekly weigh-ins for children of this age can leed to an unhealthy obsession with weight, and I expect that this is why Elmhurst weighs once a term. As Nana points out, the fact that the students are working in leotards most of the time means that the teachers can visually keep an eye on students bodies and raise the alarm if someone seems to be loosing too much weight.

It may also be that they are really not confident of teaching a child/teenager. A responsible instructor will say no rather than run any risk that their lack of experience with young people may put your child at risk of injury, or of building up muscles incorrectly.

I recall when my dd went to RBS summer school when she was 11, on one lunch time she was told she hadn't eaten enough and had to eat more or she wasn't allowed to dance in the afternoon. I was impressed to hear this, and it impressed on her how important it was to keep up her energy.

Don't panic smallbythesea, your dd is a lot younger than those of other people who have posted on this thread, so you wouldn't expect her to be doing so much. At your dd's age, mine was only doing 2 45 minute or 1 hour ballet classes per week (mind you we weren't on the vocational school roller coaster back then).

The funding decisions for the Hammond are more complex than other schools as they have a number of burseries to give out. I understand they take into consideration people's financial statements to work out whether people would be better off on MDS or bursery. And who knows what other factors come into play, but they will be trying to make sure they get the decisions right. It doesn't make it any less frustrating for you waiting I know.

Congratulations to your dd having offers for two schools.I cannot advise on which you should choose, but I understand that Northern Ballet School select entirely on ballet audition, even though many of their students go on to speciailise in jazz and musical theatre. That's not to say that her ballet wouldn't be strong enough if she went to the less ballet focused school. It depends of course on the quality and standard of teaching.

I agree totally that it is about quality not quantity, but just to give an idea, when my dd was in year 11 (GCSE year) she was doing, approximately (if I remember correctly!) 1 hour ballet on Mondays 1 hour ballet on Tuesdays Singing lesson on Wednesdays 1.5 hour ballet and 45 mins jazz on Thursdays 2 hour ballet and 1 hour contemporary on Saturdays (associate class) 2 hour ballet alternate Sundays (associate class) GCSE dance at school I was very worried that it wasn't enough, but she did get a funded place at vocational school at 16.

How exciting Primrose. Hope you have a wonderful time. Will this be your first visit?

C4D - try not to feel guilty. You're not the first parent to give your child the chance to auditio for the expeience and then have a difficult decision to make when the offer of a place comes up. It IS possible to get a place a 16 without going away at 11. When myy dd auditioned for schools, girls from her associate class got a places at Central, Elmhurst, Northern Ballet School, Ballet West, London Studio centre to name a few. But you do need very good local training and a lot of parental commitment (as well as talent, hard work and commitment from the student of course!) Have you looked at CAT schemes as an alternative?

Deleted as I posted the same message twice.

I would suggest that you take Dad's concerns as a chance to examine the decision to be sure you are making the right choice for your family. Its easy for us dancing mums to get so caught up in the audition rollercoaster that we sometimes loose the perspective of the bigger picture. So much depends on the options open to you, both in terms of the vocational school and what is available locally if you chose not to take that route, your finances and your family situation. One arguement I would put in favour of full time training is that when they reach 14/15 it can be very difficult to get enough training at a suitable level locally. We ended up spending hours every week driving to classes all over the North of England. I'm not sure that this would have be practical if I had worked full time, and I think it would have been hard on siblings if we had other children. However with good local training it is possible to get into vocational school at 16 (although the Royal Ballet School is very unlikely!) and you have the advantage of having your child close during the teenage years. Financial arguements are difficult as it is always going to mean a compromise for the rest of the family. But local training doesn't come cheap and you have to factor in cost of petrol/train fares and even your time perhaps. If you are getting into the realms of re-mortgaging the house to take up a place I would seriously stear clear. That's too much obligation to put on a child when there is so much still outside their control.

pas de quatre - my understanding is that if accepted on to the first year at Central it is for a 'Foundation Degree', which is a 2 year course. The concept of a foundation degree isn't unique to Central or to dance training. Personally I don't know how students are selected onto the 3rd year (which would give them a full degree), but I know that students from other institutions can audition to join for the 3rd year. I don't know how the funding works for those who don't get chosen for the final year, but presumably if you have already taken two years of degree funding you cannot start another degree. I believe the course at ENBS is also 2 years with 3rd year being only for those selected. But I may be wrong.

Although Northern Ballet Associates is very much a classical course, the mids and seniors also do contemporary class. My dd found this very valuable as she didn't have any other opportunity for true contemporary training. What's more the contemporary class was taught by a contemporary dancer not a ballet dancer, which I think is very valuable.

Sometimes apprenticeships are even shorter. Northern Ballet used to start graduates off with 3 month apprenticeships. Not sure if that's still the case. Some companies pay apprentices and some don't.

Aileen makes a good point about lists of graduates not including those who don't get contracts. Also you should look at the difference between the graduate destinations for girls and boys, especially if you are a girl or are looking at training for your daughter. BUT the only school which consistently has 100% graduate employment in classical ballet is RBS and not many people have that choice!

I wonder if the schools take a flexible approach to the level you are at depending on how long you've been dancing. That is to say, they might generally expect someone to be at Grade 4/IF level, but if you were a late starter they would take this into consideration, especially if potential was outstanding.

I I thought she did go to White Lodge - just not from Year 7. Am I mistaken?

I agree with you that it is a very useful and interesting debate. I was just getting a bit concerned that the debate might scare some dancing parents off letting their children pursue their dreams, and I would hate for us to do that.

Whilst statistics are interesting, I fear that if we focus too much on them we would never let our children start on this road towards being dancers. The odds are seriously against anyone starting on this road actually ending up as a ballet dancer, but actually quite a few do succeed and there's nothing to say it won't be your child who does. Many more go on to have careers in other forms of dance, or other areas of the theatre or arts. And even those who don't, out of choice or not, can use what they have learned through their dancer training in whatever they choose to do in the future.

Personally the thing I love most about ballet is a good Corps and I often find solos quite dull. Perhaps schools focus heavily on training for corps because 1) (Almost) everyone has to go through the Corps 2) It is so tough. I remember my dd telling me when we came to watch her in Swan Lake when she was at school that the toughest part was when they had to stand on stage in the same position for about 10 minutes. I also think we are forgetting how very few positions there are globally for soloist level dancers. There are some at this rank who originate from the UK, but perhaps considering how small the population in the UK is we shouldn't be surprised that there are so few.

Oh we're a nosey and opinionated lot! No chance of no response! LOL. And we love to hear about people's successes. Seriously though, congratulations to your dd. I think you could look at employment rates for female graduates as an indicator, but I wouldn't use that as your sole deciding factor because both are top schools, and what is most important is whether the school suits your dd. Personally I'm a great believer in gut feel on this kind of thing!