glowlight

Does your dd love to dance? Is she thrilled at the prospect of doing JA's? This should be the motivation for doing JA's - not what it might or might not leed to in terms of vocational school. Live for the moment (with a weather eye out for the future!) As non-experts I don't think any of us can say this won't be a hinderance in the future, but all dancers have an 'achilles heel' of some sort that they have to work with, and I do know people with feet which some may have thought were competely unsuitable who have got into vocational school and done very well. I hope your dd has a wonderful time at JA's. I'm sure she will.

Also consider where auditions are located. If there are preliminary auditions close to home its definitely worth considering these as it reduces your travelling costs, and perhaps more importantly travelling time, so dancer is likely to arrive at the audition fresher. If the preliminary audition is at a studio your child is familiar with that's even better.

I think that was in relation to Dance and Drama Awards ie post 16 funding. This is what it says on direct.gov.uk about Nationality and Residency eligibility for DADAs: 'You could be eligible for an award if both of the following apply: •you are a national of a European Union (EU) •you have been resident in the EU or an EEA country for the three years immediately before the first day of the first academic year of your course You may also be eligible if you have refugee status, or if you have indefinite leave to enter or remain in the UK and you've been resident in the UK since you were granted this status. If you have been out of the United Kingdom or EU because your parents have been temporarily employed elsewhere during the last three years, you will be considered to have been resident throughout the whole period.' However it is different for MDS (funding for 11 - 16 training).. This is what it says on www.education.gov.uk: 'A child can get a place if he or she has been living in the British Islands for at least two calendar years before taking up a place. Special rules apply if your child has been temporarily abroad, or is a refugee, or is the child of a worker from certain other European countries.' I think that schools do have funds and scholarships which can help candidates from overseas.

tomuchtalent - your comment is saddening. I have often felt concern that the comments which we 'old hands' post may put off the parents of younger children from letting them persue their dreams. Please don't let that happen. The journey to become a dancer is full of ups and downs, but it is really quite wonderful and rewarding for the child and the parent. I'm sure we all feel great pride in our dancing children and have ourselves made good friends and done things we wouldn't have done if it had not been for this journey. Ian - thankyou for reminding us about anonymous posting of contentious remarks - I feel we should never post something that we wouldn't want to post in our own names - although I know that many of us value being able to post using an alias if only to protect our child's anonimity.

Ask them - a lot can happen between June and September and it may just be she had a bad day on audition day. If nothing else her desire to audition again shows enthusiasm and commitment. And if you treat it as 'audition practice' then nothing is lost. The first audition my dd did, which was for an associate programme when she was 10, she didn't get in. She auditioned the next year for the same progreamme and did.

I do know of people who have got jobs in Musical Theatre in the UK after starting their career on cruise ships.

Its probably a bit early to be able to say how the NB CAT scheme measures up against full time vocational school. The scheme has been running less than 10 years, and I think its only in the last year that graduates who have been through the scheme from the start are completing their post 16 training and getting jobs. Certainly the boys I know of who have been through the scheme seem to be doing well, I don't know about girls. Actually when you think about it the same is probably true to some extent of Elmhurst. Elmhurst used to be a more diverse stage school and only became ballet focused some 10 - 15 years ago, so it doesn't have the long history of pure ballet training that RBS does.

Absolutely true Janet - whilst jobs may be secured for the next year, the chances of Northern Ballet being able to raise that sort of money on an ongoing basis is very unlikely. My biggest concern is that now that they have managed to do this once, the Arts Council will look at Northern Ballet and say they don't NEED the funding because they have can raise the funds privately.

You make a good point Tulip - job prospects are scarey and uncertain for all young people, not just dancers. In actual fact I think that the employment rate from vocational schools is very good compared with Universities. Certainly from my dd's graduating class, I think everyone who wanted a job in the industry had got a dance job within 6 months of graduating. Not many University courses can claim that.

The pay what I consider to be a very reasonable salary for a recent graduate and your food and accommodation are paid for. My dd has also found that there are opportunities for earning extra by doing some optional extra duties, but that probably depends on the company and how they work. However you are not paid 'between' contracts so you have to make sure you save some to tide you over. Some companies seem to be able to offer more continuity to their dancers than others. When dd was looking at ballet companies, while most pay Equity minimum at least to their dancers, there are still companies who expect dancers to work for nothing, especially 'Apprentices'. How they can do this, especially while living in a big city, I have no idea.

When my dd took a job on a cruise ship I think she had already decided that Classical Ballet probably wasn't for her. Cruise dancing can give dancers a long and stable career. My dd has colleagues who have been dancing with the same company for almost 10 years, and are now looking to 'retire' having already paid off their mortgages at around 30 years of age. Because working on a ship you have other duties, and particularly customer facing duties, I think that cruise dancers have a broad work experience which will make them more employable when they do retire. Some cruise companies specifically employ classical dancers and put on full length ballets. I'm thinking particularly of Cunard. But I don't think I've heard of any dancers going from cruise work into ballet companies. It may be of course that not many would want to. In terms of how long you can keep up your ballet if you don't get a job after graduating - I think that is very difficult. My dd found it difficult enough after just a few months to do enough classes. Sometimes you can go back to your old school/associate scheme for classes but if not it can be very expensive if you are having to pay for professional level classes. I know some people set themselves a time limit - eg a year after graduating. Obviously this will be a personal thing and will depend on sources of finance and other support (parents?), how close they feel they are to getting a job (eg always in the final cut but never offered a contract?), and how much rejection they feel they can take. It will also depend on alternatives that are available.

The BBC news website reports very positive news about the success of the recent fundraising schemes by Northern Ballet which were driven by the drastic cuts to their funding. The article reports that rather than reducing their dancer head count from 40 to 30 as planned, they are actually increasing to 42 having raised £450,000. An amazing achievement in the current econmic climate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18578124

I certainly didn't intend to criticise those who do do A levels alongside their dance diploma/degree. I have great admiration for those who can achieve this.

If she is keen to do A levels then I wouldn't discourage her - just saying that it's not an easy option

To have other qualifications is certainly advantageous, but in practice it can be very difficult to do A levels and Diploma or Degree level course at the same time. This is why some of the vocational schools only allow 1 A level to be taken, and some don't particularly encourage it at all. If you are very bright and academic study comes easily to you it probably isn't a problem and is a good idea but if not then going down the A level route could actually compromise the dance career. Given how much has been invested in dancing so far, that would seem a terrible waste. The window of opportunity is so narrow. However it is probably easier for those of us whose dk's have finished or are about to finish their dance education to see this perspective than those embarking on the process. I should add that I always stressed to my dd that she had to work hard for GCSEs and if she hadn't got a good bunch of those including Maths and English she would have been retaking them.

Currently yes. As far as I know there is no age restriction on Dadas and the student funding associated with the degree courses available at Central, Rambert etc However - as discussed already on this forum Dadas are under review, and I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Department for Education are looking at targeting funding to the 16 to 18 age group. Thats not to say there won't be funding available for those who are older, but it could be a very different picture in future.

My dd went to one audition in which, after one exercise at the barre, the director said there were too many people and told everyone on the right hand side of the room to leave. Fortunately this audition was in London so she hadn't incurred huge costs to get there, and she came away with the very firm opinion that she wouldn't want to work for them anyway. BUT - this was an exception! Some were exceptionally well organised. In terms of overseas auditions, she viewed them as a chance to see places she wouldn't otherwise get to see. Being cut early in the day meant more time for site seeing!

Its actually a video clip - its about 15 mins long so sit down with a cup of tea and enjoy.

This morning I stumbled across this wonderfully inspirational speech by Steve Jobs, founder of Apple. It has absouletely nothing to do with dance, but everything to do with living your life to the full, making the most of opportunities, and how what you may perceive as set backs at the time may be the best thing that ever happened to you. Hopefully you will excuse that I am posting this on 'Doing Dance' but I really think the messages are so relevant. http://www.ted.com/talks/steve_jobs_how_to_live_before_you_die.html

As with everything you have to cut your cloth to fit your budget. My dd saved a lot of money through her part time job which paid for most of her audition travels. I think she had 4 trips to Europe and lots of travelling within the UK. She did, however, become more discerning about which she would go for as time went on, and she knew that the money was finite because she had earned it herself. I think you start to get a feel for which ones really aren't worth going for and you realise, as Julie said, when they state a height bracket the chances are they mean it. Its definitely worth cultivating any friends and family who live in useful places to save on hotel bills. Of course some people get jobs through being 'spotted' by artistic directors when they come to school, so it's not that expensive for everyone.

AmelieMum's mention of singing reminds me that my doctor suggested that playing a wind instrument would help, so I played the recorder when I was little and then took up the flute when I was a little bit older. I also used to sing a lot. It really does help to practice controlled breathing. So if dd is looking at taking up an instrument maybe conisder a wind instrument or voice to give that added bonus of helping her breathing!

I have had Asthma since I was 2. My parents 'protected' me as a child and I was discouraged from doing any exercise. Now I am an adult and can make my own decisions I have discovered that the fitter I am the better my asthma is. Yes I have to take medication to keep it under control, but it is not a big issue. One tip I was taught when I was a child was, if I was struggling for breath and starting to panic, to take deep, slow breaths OUTWARDS. Don't try to breathe in. Blow out. If you empty the lungs they will naturally refill, and the more you have breathed out, the more air will refill your lungs. May not work for everyone, but it works for me.

HFBrew, you are quite right, this kind of thing should have been made clear in the contract. Adding this requirement as an afterthought puts potential employees in a very difficult position. I had a chat with DD about this new requirement from Costa and she was very surprised to hear that Dancersdad's ds had to pay for his safety training. She hasn't heard of this happening with other cruise lines. She was also very surprised to hear how much it cost. Yes, everyone on board has to undergo basic safety training, and I know that she has had to do extra training since the Concordia disaster, but this was paid for by the company.

Is the contract direct with Costa or through an Agency? I may be wrong, but the issue may be that if he is not a direct employee of Costa the company doesn't have to foot the bill. So in a sense its a bit like when you are self employed in this country and having to pay your own employment costs. It isn't unusual for dancers to have some upfront expenses when starting a cruise contract. When my dd started she had to pay for the very stringent medical which the company required, which cost a couple of hundred pounds, and for her US visa (which I think was about £150). I know that all her friends who have worked on cruise ships have had to pay these expenses themselves. I also know that they have to get the medical redone every 2 years at their own expense. I would say though, if he can possibly afford the upfront cost, and unless he has a definite offer elsewhere, that over the length of his career as a dancer he should see this simply as a cost of getting started (in the same way as the cost of going to auditions is a cost of getting started) and should go for it. He will soon find that he has covered these start up costs by what he is earning on the ship. Edited for Typo

My feeling is there is no harm in doing classes at a lower level than his 'main' class. It certainly won't hold him back and may give him a chance to consolidate things he has learned, rather than always be stretching himself to learn something new. Also, as this is is only opportunity to dance in a group, this is very valuable as it is important for him to learn about his own spatial awareness in relation to others. He may also learn from the corrections the others get and hopefully he will enjoy the social aspects of dance. Think of dance as a 'Team Sport' like football, rather than an individual sport like tennis.