glowlight

Well that just goes to show how wrong personal impressions can be. Lol. I think the top and bottom of it is that the schools don't rule people out on height as there is such variation in what artistic directors are looking for. Maybe it could be slightly harder for a very tall or a very small dancer to get a job, who can say, but there are so many other factors that make it hard I think its the least of your worries!

If not doing the exercise is not an option I would suggest firstly speaking to the teacher about it. Possibly there is something slightly wrong in the technique which is putting strain where it shouldn't. Also teacher may have some suggestions as to cause or possible solutions. And if you don't get to the bottom of it this way - then see a physio.

Its well worth keeping up the ballet even though she doesn't expect to end up as a classical dancer. Ballet provides a good foundation for all types of dance, it helps to ensure good clean technique and cannot be beaten for strengthening parts that other exercise cannot reach. I think this is why the vocational schools which are not primarily classical schools still look for a good standard of ballet. Even if she cannot take the exams because pointe work is a real no-no its probably still worth taking classes in ballet and progressing through the grades as far as possible. It sounds as if your new teacher will be sympathetic to this.

When my dd was younger and wasn't at vocational school herself, it appeared to me that some of the vocational students at summer schools struggled a bit because they were just so ready for a break after their long and intensive terms. Wheras the non-vocationals were rareing to go. However I think that summer schools can be very valuable for post 16s in full time training - gives them a chance to measure themselves against others from other establishments, and train with different teachers in different styles. It also breaks up the very long summer break. Northern Ballet summer school used to give useful insights into how to apply for jobs, how to behave as a professional dancer, and how a company works, from both a business and artistic perspective.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. When my dd was auditioning there were certainly companies which specified 5'5'' minimum (she's 5'4''), but there are plenty of artistic directors who like small girls. Most schools seem to not be too fussy on height, although I felt Rambert seemed to prefer taller girls, but that is just my perception. However the advice to broaden horizons is not a bad one as there are lots of other reasons why you may not get a classical job, and a well trained classical dancer can often turn her feet to just about anything.

This web site has all the CAT schemes in the UK. There are a couple in the midlands. http://www.nationaldancecats.co.uk/contact

Is The Hammond in Chester a possibility - I think their associate classes are only a couple of times a term? Or Ballet Cymru in Wales? I know there are people on the forum with experience of both.

I don't think you have to pay more to go to finals - I believe its covered in your initial audition fee so I don't think its a money spinner. I would think its so that they can have a closer look at people they might be interested in. The short class they do at the initial audition doesn't really give them time to put someone through their paces enough to see if they are up to the standard of the year group they will be joining.

Nana Lily - my dd has already graduated from Northern Ballet School. It seems no time at all since we were in your position doing the rounds of sixth for auditions, and it was a very stressful time. You are quite right that there is very little point in stressing about how you would choose between different schools until you are in that position. We certainly weren't and very few of my dd's friends were actually in the position of having to make a choice. I am a great believer that things happen for a reason and so was quite happy that there was no decision to me made!

I just wanted to apologise that my choice of words may have suggested that I thought Elmhurst was 'inferior' to English National Ballet School. That certainly isn't the case. I think that you make a good point that when considering graduate employment destinations that some schools have an intake which is more purely classical. Some schools achieve this by filling with overseas students. I believe that one should be looking at Does the school get some students into classical jobs Does the school get some students into 'top' classical jobs And very importantly - do those who don't get classical jobs get jobs which utilise their training in some way if they want it (eg in another form of dance)

I think its true that where a dancer has trained is VERY important to Artistic Directors - and English National Ballet School has a good rate of graduates getting jobs in companies, but Elmhurst isn't so far behind that their graduates don't get a look in so it isn't neccessarily a bad choice to 'go with your gut'. At the end of the day you have to be at least reasonably happy and comfortable in your environment to do your best work. We were lucky never to have this difficult choice to make

This may sound back to front, but it is nice to see people posting their 'No's' . In the past people have been more likely to post only when they got a yes and those with 'No's' must have felt they were in the minority which they definitely weren't!

thequays makes a good point - whilst there are certainly physical attributes which the schools look for which relate to the body's suitability for classical training, and whether the individual will 'fit' in a corps de ballet, but there are other more subjective attributes which I am sure come to play. Visual appearance is one, performance quality, presence. Things which you can't quite put your finger on but make a great artist to watch. These kind of things cannot be quantified but I am sure that they come into play when audition panels make their decisions.

Yes, good news for this year's applicants. I don't think the intention is to remove funding altogether, just that it could be different to the current DADA scheme. One aricle I read suggested that the new scheme might be stricter in terms of the age of the students who would be eligible. But clearly its still up in the air so we shouldn't speculate I guess.

At last....a bottle of wine to celebrate good news rather than to settle the nerves! Lol!

I know we've talked about this before, but I thought this article on the Northern Ballet School website might be of interest to those applying for sixth form places in the next few years: http://www.northernb...news_events.php And because their website seems to not work properly with some browsers .... here is the text of the article: The Department for Education has been working with colleagues in the Department for Business Innovation and Skills (BIS), Young People's Learning Agency (YPLA) and Skills Funding Agency (the Agency) to consider a long term solution to providing support for the most talented young people and adults to access specialist dance and drama provision in the UK. In December 2011, the departments concerned reported that they need further time to consider the options, and that they have therefore decided to postpone the implementation of the new arrangements to commence in September 2013 rather than September 2012 as was anticipated. The DaDA scheme will therefore be supported for a further, final transitional year in, 2012/13. This means that students showing exceptional talent during the autumn 2011 audition period and who start courses in September 2012 will continue to be offered awards under the DaDA scheme, and will be funded to the end of their courses. Edited to format the quote.

Poppy - if people are talking about a vocational college which has its first year of graduates coming through this year, which has an association with Scotish Ballet I think it will be the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland (Formerly Royal Scotish Academy of Music and Dance) http://www.rcs.ac.uk/undergraduate/dance/ There is also the Dance School of Scotland - but this has been running much longer. This takes students from 11 and is the only state run vocational dance school in the UK I believe: http://www.thedanceschoolofscotland.org.uk/

I would think its probably largely down to the mail. Given that both people have received both yes's and no's already I don't think you can read too much into it.

I think it depends on the school and perhaps the number of 'vocational' students they have. My dd used to go to classes at two schools (with the agreement of both teachers). One did shorter classes - generally 45mins - 1 hour for the seniors, but then there might be an extra (optional) half hour on top for pointe work, pas de deux or rep. The other did 1.5 hour classes for vocational grades. I guess it depends what they can fit into their timetable and what will work for the range of students they have. Most local schools cannot cater solely for the students who want to make a career of dance, as it is the majority who dance for fun who keep the school financially viable. They have to somehow look after both.

It can be very difficult to get 'enough' hours of training in for teenagers who are not at vocational school. I think we have to do what we can and not beat ourselves up with what just cannot be done. Look for quality rather than quantity and be guided by what your child can cope with in terms of fitting everything into their schedule. Remember that travelling time can be a huge extra burden and really cut into the time they have for homework etc. A child who is too tired or stressed because they can't fit everything in just won't be able to work to their full potential in class so it may be beneficial to back off a bit if this is the case. We always tried to keep one evening a week completely free of dance activities for homework and sanity.

Hi Katy - Certainly the Royal Ballet School associate scheme is probably one of the most prestigious so inevitably they can pick and choose. You may find that there are other schemes local to you which you could consider where she might stand a better chance. Maybe you could ask the teacher about this at some point. My dd never got a place for RBS associates, but did get places on other associate schemes. As your dd gets older there will also be the chance of summer schools, easter courses, youth ballet companies, festivals. Lots of things to give her wonderful dancing experiences and to develop her as a dancer. As to what turnout is - it is the amount of rotation in the hip joint. Ballet dancers need this to be flexible so that they can hold their legs in the right positions. It enables them to lift their legs higher and looks neater! Perfect turnout would be where you lie on your back on the floor with your Knees out and heels together ('Frogs Legs') and your knees go flat to the floor WITHOUT FORCING! Very few dancers have perfect turnout, many are able to 'improve' their turnout over the years but for everyone there will be a point at which it won't go any further because of the construction of the hip joint. That is my non-expert understanding anyway. Perhaps Anjuli can correct me if I'm wrong! Its good that your teacher was honest and realistic with you, but I do know of many young people who have been told by teachers that they won't get a place at a vocational school due to some physical characteristic and then have gone on to prove them wrong so don't be too put off. And there are several other schools besides the Royal Ballet School. And many dance styles other than ballet which your dd may discover she loves as she gets older. In the meantime I wouldn't worry about your dd having an 'unrealistic' goal at this stage. There's nothing wrong with having a dream. A dream can keep you going through the tough times at school, and give you a reason to strive for something, and if you don't achieve your dream (as most of us don't) it may have put you in the right place to achieve something else pretty amazing. To quote a tacky card which I sent to my dd once....'Shoot for the Moon, and you'll land amongst the stars.'

We're at cross purposes. I was referring to my dd's experience of Northern Ballet School. I realise I may have caused confusion referring to it as NBS when the thread is about ENBS (English National Ballet School). Sorry for the confusion and any minor panic it may have caused! At Northern Ballet School only about one third of the intake do classical focus, the rest are on jazz focus.

Perhaps encourage her to audition this year for 'practice' and see what happens. My dd didn't get into NB associates the first time she auditioned, but did the second time. Northern Ballet also offer some very good open classes for which you do not have to audition and it may be worth considering these. These would give her the chance to get used to the Northern Ballet style which is certainly very different to RAD. Failing that Easter and Summer courses at Northern Ballet and other places are worth considering to get her used to working outside the regular RAD syllabus.

Plenty of British Girls on the jazz strand though. The other girls on classical were mostly from Germany and Japan.

This is a very true observation. In my dd's year at NBS there were only 2 English girls on classical focus. However, the overseas students (or should I say those from outside the EU) do help to maintain the viability of the schools, as I believe that these students generally have to pay full fees.