extra classes

[Anna C]

You're right re. Outreach courses Primrose, every single Easter and Summer School my DD has done has asked for the last exam taken and the result, and some specify a minimum of RAD Inter Foundation, for example. For the Voc Schools to do RAD classes and enter their pupils for the majors, there must be some merit in the exam system, surely? I'm not saying that my DD will get into a school at 16 just because of good results in her majors, of course not. BUT if, where I live, the best quality training happens to be syllabus based, with only one other school who sacrifice quality teaching for big money making shows, I have to choose the syllabus based school.

 

Luckily my DD's Associate classes offer excellent non syllabus training in ballet, pointe and contemporary so she does get free work.

[Anjuli_Bai]

In the United States, though one can certainly find syllabus classes, they are not the norm. Here classes are taught in what you would call freestyle - but that doesn't mean - at all - in no way - a lesser standard. San Diego has always had a roster of very fine teachers (including from the Royal Ballet: Elaine Thomas, Keith Martin, John Hart) - none of whom are syllabus teachers.

 

I expect the teacher (including myself) to choreograph every class - barre and centre - to the needs of the students - not to the dictates of a syllabus. That takes work, thought and time. I also expect - and expected from myself - to throw out my preconceived class work if events warranted to teach to the needs of that day.

 

I took three years of Cecchetti syllabus classes from a renowned Cecchettti examiner. I soon realized that though I could execute the set work very well - when I took a class from a non-syllabus teacher, I was lost. I had the strength and technique but could not accommodate quickly to thinking "out of the box." When this teacher offered to mentor me into the Cecchetti Council for teachers, I was grateful for her confidence but refused. I couldn't imagine teaching these set exercises to set music. Yes, I know there is "freework" but that's not the same as having to think - and absorb quickly -- day after day. And teaching or dancing to the same music would drive me batty. I love the inspiration of music that challenges.

 

So, why did I take those three yrs of Cecchetti? At first it was because I didn't know the downside - seemed like a good idea. Then, it was a class within walking distance, fit into a very tight schedule (motherhood and working) and the teacher was knowledgeable and welcoming. However, after only one year I realized the problems and only continued the two yrs more as an addition to a non-syllabus schedule of daily classes.

[Anna C]

You are absolutely right Anjuli. Trouble is in the UK, as you say, syllabus work is the norm in almost all local schools. Good local schools that offer great quality non-syllabus classes are - where I live - rarer than hens' teeth! :-)

[primrose]

I understand exactly what you are saying about nearly all schools in Britain being syllabus based, that is just the way things are here. All I am saying is that when it comes to auditions the schools are not really interested in what grade the child has achieved. They do want good technique and all the other attributes, but I would also say that they would want thinking dancers. One of the reasons vocational schools do the RAD syllabus is so that students can enter certain competitions, however a very small portion of time is given to the syllabus.

[JulieW]

It's not quite correct to say that the vocational schools don't teach to a syllabus - they teach to their own syllabus - but as you say, most offer RAD as an "extra" (and in our case some Cecchetti) in order to enter some competitions. (I know what you mean, however, that they don't do RAD/ISTD etc etc as their everyday classes - blimey you couldn't - everyone would get completely bored )

 

I also agree with Primrose when she says that the schools aren't really interested in what grade you're on, however I do remember seeing one or more upper schools saying the students needed to be at Advanced 1 level. I've had to do lots of persuading amongst friends that their children didn't need to actually be doing RAD Adv 1, or had passed it, in order to get into the school.

 

I also don't think that all the schools are looking for technically advanced students (although, if they're entering the school older than year 7, perhaps they need to at least show that they'd be able to keep up with their prospective classmates) - potential still does count at most of the schools. There is one where I feel that they are already looking for the (nearly) finished article to nurture along the way but that's just from my own experience. When children are trying to get into older years there's such a lot of competition for so few places, that unfortunately the not quite technically strong enough may well lose out to the stronger ones - if there were more places that wouldn't be so much of an issue.

[2dancersmum]

Ironically it is when preparing for a show that my DD gets to do more non-syllabus work and classes. The shows only take place every 2-3 years. The seniors keep one syllabus based class going but the rest of the classes offer something new every session. All the senior cast learn all the roles although the teacher choreographs each dance with a final performer in mind. It would be impossible at our small school to offer the students this performance opportunity by putting on rehearsals in addition to normal classes as there are not enough hours in the day or days in the week. As it is the students get a break from syllabus classes (they only get 30mins a week freestlye) and learn lots of new choreography, mime and performance skills.

[glowlight]

We shouldn't forget that ballet is a performance art, so doing shows ie learning how to perform in front of an audience, is an important part of a students training. Ideally you would want syllabus (or more importantly I should say 'technique' classes) to keep ticking over while preparing for a show. But shows are important.

 

Dancers don't get jobs by passing exams, they get jobs by performing.

[rachaelballet12]

hi my dd is ready to take advanced one she is 15 after that there is only advanced two at our dance school in ballet any suggestions please as my daughter does want to go to vocational school she has done eyb last year and has attended yorkshire assembley which she thought was excellent. Her dance teacher thinks we should take alook at northern ballet for future eg age eighteen any advice would be appreciated.

[Anna C]

We shouldn't forget that ballet is a performance art, so doing shows ie learning how to perform in front of an audience, is an important part of a students training. Ideally you would want syllabus (or more importantly I should say 'technique' classes) to keep ticking over while preparing for a show. But shows are important.

 

Dancers don't get jobs by passing exams, they get jobs by performing.

 

Yes, very true Glowlight, but obviously the technique has to be in place first. My DD's Associate Teacher summed it up well for me by saying that once the technique, line and vocabulary is second nature, by not having to consciously think about it, this frees the dancer up to be able to perform and act. When I mentioned the school we moved DD from at 7, it concentrated solely on performing with a fixed grin - but not concerning itself with quality technical training, feet, line or turnout.

 

Of course schools can go the other way and concentrate purely on technique....hence Summer and Easter schools and performance experiences like EYB are so invaluable.

[Anna C]

hi my dd is ready to take advanced one she is 15 after that there is only advanced two at our dance school in ballet any suggestions please as my daughter does want to go to vocational school she has done eyb last year and has attended yorkshire assembley which she thought was excellent. Her dance teacher thinks we should take alook at northern ballet for future eg age eighteen any advice would be appreciated.

 

Rachael, it would probably be easier if you copied your question into a new thread. :-)

[glowlight]

Rachael - alot depends on what your dd wants to do in the future. If her aim is to be a ballet dancer and she has the potential, then ideally she should be looking to go to full time vocational school at 16. So if she is 15 she should probably be looking now, however she may now be a little late to apply for the main schools this year, I'm not sure what the closing dates are. I would suggest looking at The Royal Ballet School, English National Ballet School, Central School of Ballet, Elmhurst, and possibly Northern Ballet School, Rambert, Hammond, The Arts Educational School at Tring.

 

If she is more interested in Jazz, Musical Theatre or Contemporary then she could probably leave it until she is 18. Northern Ballet School certainly takes students at 18.

[Anna C]

...as do Rambert. :-)

[rachaelballet12]

Thank u for your help my daughter has decided she wants to study for her A LEVELS so as she has something to fall back on . She is a jazz and tap dancer also and excells at all of these her ambition is to train in london at London studio or central has she left it two late . I am sorry if i have posted this on the wrong site but i am quite new to this forum.

[Anna C]

Hi Rachael you haven't posted on the wrong site, I just meant it may have been better to start a new thread. :-).

 

For Central your DD would have to apply to start their 3 year course at 16. Rambert will take applications at 16 or 18. Basically, if it's classical ballet she wants then she needs to be applying for a place at 16. If she's more into Contemporary or Musical Theatre then 18 is fine. I'm not sure about LCDS wrt age but I know they offer both undergraduate and postgrad courses, so would assume that 18 is fine.

 

The best thing to do is to either go to open days, or summer schools at the schools in question. Central are starting to hold an advanced summer school this year for dancers interested in applying for the senior school. Might be worth a look.

[2dancersmum]

Hi Rachael, Central do take at 16 and you can take A levels alongside dance but 18 is definately not too late to apply there either. My DD has applied recently and everyone she spoke to on the day was 18/19 and she felt very young beside them. And at least 2 of them have got through to the finals. Northern Ballet in Manchester also takes at 18 aswell as 16 and that has a ballet/jazz split in the 1st year with focus on either jazz or ballet in years 2 & . Several girls from my DDs ballet school in the past have gone to London Studio at 18 because they wished to take A levels in their home town first. My DDs first love is ballet and she has been applying for entry at 16 but if she does not get a funded place this year she will be trying the schools you have mentioned at 18.

[glowlight]

Sorry Rachael, I didn't mean to worry you that your dd might have left it too late. From what I know the london studio centre course is aimed at students who are 18+ so there shouldn't be a problem there. I personally know of girls who've gone to Central at 17. Don't know of any who've gone at 18 myself but from what 2dancersmum has said it sounds as if that's a possibility. My dd went to Northern Ballet School in Manchester at 16, but many of her classmates were 18 (or older).

 

I can certainly see advantages with going to vocational school when you are that little bit older, and certainly there is no problem if the school your dd wants to apply to will take applicants at 16. I just wanted to point out that some (in particular the pure ballet schools) don't.

 

If you are looking for something to enhance her training while she is in the 6th form, if she isn't likely to be fully stretched by her local dance school, perhaps you could look at CAT schemes. CAT stands for Centre For Advance Training There are several around the country and they are intended to offer vocational level training locally so students can still live at home and go to their regular schools for their normal education. She may be too old for some of the schemes, but I know that the Contemporary scheme at Northern School of Contemporary Dance in Leeds takes older students and I expect some of the other schemes do too.

 

This is a link to the CAT website: http://www.nationaldancecats.co.uk/

[rachaelballet12]

hi dancers mam good to hear that its not two late for my dd and thank you for your help

[glowlight]

Something else to consider is Summer and Easter Courses. I would definitey consider those offered by Northern Ballet, especially if you are based in the North of England.

 

http://www.northernballet.com/index.php?q=academy/training-programmes/summer-school

 

Central also have summer and easter courses available - this could be particularly good for your dd if she is considering applying to Central in the future

 

http://www.centralschoolofballet.co.uk/ssccourseoutline.php

 

Now is the right time to be applying for these for this year.

[Anna C]

I can vouch for Central's Easter School, and this year they have introduced an Advanced Summer School for pupils planning to apply for the Senior School. So sorry, I didn't mean to mislead you about Central; I genuinely thought you had to apply at 16. If other people have applied at 17 or 18 and been successful, I stand corrected. :-)

[rachaelballet12]

Thank you spannerandpony any advice I am gratefull for .

[2dancersmum]

Central also offer 'days of dance' on an occasional basis in London or Leeds. This is about £25 for the day but I don't know how often they hold them. I should clarify about entry that I don't personally know anyone at Central. My only contact has been my DD's recent audtion. Cetainly there were plenty of older girls on day and she exchanged contact details with a few of them who have got to finals. Obviously they have not yet done the final audition so I do not know if any of the girls she met will be actually offered a place.

[Pas de Quatre]

Just to confirm what others have said above. The only places that you are obliged to apply at 16 are RBS, ENB, Elmhurst, Tring, Hammond & Legat. (Also possibly Dance School of Scotland, I don't have much information about them). Some with foundation degree/degree courses you can apply from 16 upwards (17, 18 19 etc), which include Central, Rambert, Royal Scottish Conservatoire in Glagow, Ballet West, Northern Ballet School plus Laines and Birds for a more Jazz orientated course. Other degree courses such as London Studio Centre, London Contemporary Dance School and Laban you must apply after 18, however these are entry by audition although the latter two also require 2 A-levels. This is not an exhaustive list, just a general guide, other people may be able to add more.

 

Edited to add name

Edited January 29, 2012 by Pas de Quatre

[Anna C]

Is the rule of thumb basically though that if you are aiming for a career in a classical ballet company, you should aim to be in Voc school by the start of year 12 (lower 6th) - even if you then move schools?

Edited January 29, 2012 by spannerandpony

[glowlight]

Spanner - I would say that is generally how it seems to be, although of course there are bound to be exceptions.

[Anna C]

Thanks Glowlight. :-)

 

[Lilac]

hi lilac

i no how sad and frustrated you must feel i wish these teachers would realise we only have good intensions

for our children

and i feel they should work together with us to find a compromise

how about getting the associate school to phone youre dd teacher a little push might help

or maybe try having a word yourself and stress youre situation

if this does not work phone the associate school back and ask for help

also ask youre dd teacher is there anyone she can send youre daughter to for that class and maybe after the show

have private classes if you can afford this or double up with another child

also you said youre dd is 13 how about going straight into the intermediate class instead

i feel this is much better as my own daughter even said the inter foundations never prepared her for what was to come in the next exam

and as she is 13 i feel this age is more better for the intermediate and maybe the times of the classes are better for you all

let me no how you get on

Hi

It's all very difficult, Int Fdn exams have taken longer to arrange with the chance in syllabus.Have waited since the beginning of term to sort this issue. Looks like she''ll do Int Fdn in the Summer - supposedly extra lessons will be laid on. Haven't paid this term's fees, my protest at waiting to have some grade work! have a different local teacher who is willing to admit DD to a weekly Int Fdn class with guaranteed no show work! have waited nearly a week for regular teacher to comment on my email about this option. if this doesn't work out, perhaps we will have to go straight to Intermediate as she can make both lessons for that (has been going to one already since the autumn). See what this week does or doesn't bring?

Lilac