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Petit battement's?


CharlieChuck
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Do they fill you with undeniable fear or uncontrollable excitement?

 

I vote for the former because it is one movement I can just not do. Seriously it's disastrous. See trying to not move my knee infuriates me cause I'm literally like "Don't you dare move?"

 

Thoughts?

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Am I correct in thinking that battements serres are supposed to look as if the foot is vibrating; a very small movement compared to the front-back-front-back action of normal petits battements?? I personally find Petits battements quite easy.... Brises, gargouillades and fouettés are far more frustrating though!!!! :P

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In petit battement I always thought of the movement of the leg below the knee is like the pendulum of a clock.  The knee is pressed back and held quiet - while below the knee the leg moves.  The movement is in-out not scraping the standing ankle.  Work on that in-out pendulum movemnt slowly and then when your mind has learned it - pick up the speed.  There is also no movement in the body and that includes the standing hip.   I always loved doing this.  

 

Yes, in petit serré - it looks like a vibration - but it is actually a tap-tap-tap - as the pointe of the moving foot taps on the standing ankle (in the front, side or back of it).   Think of Odette doing it in Swan Lake.  Again the knee is pressed back, and the only movemnt occurs below the knee.  The rest of the body is quiet.  I always loved doing these, too.

 

Actually, I loved all the steps of the petit allegro vocabulary.

 

Remember, if you start out saying to yourself:

 

 

Quote from above:   "Do they fill you with undeniable fear or uncontrollable excitement?

I vote for the former because it is one movement I can just not do. Seriously it's disastrous. See trying to not move my knee infuriates me cause I'm literally like "Don't you dare move?"

Thoughts?" :

 

You are behind before you start.  what is there to fear?  You are not going to fall down and go boom.  "Just cannot do" - tends to be self fulfilling.   You're at minus zero before  you even start.  

 

So, tell yourself you love it - and see what happens.  :)

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Am I correct in thinking that battements serres are supposed to look as if the foot is vibrating; a very small movement compared to the front-back-front-back action of normal petits battements?? I personally find Petits battements quite easy.... Brises, gargouillades and fouettés are far more frustrating though!!!! :P

 I think battements serres and petit battements are the same thing, just called different things. my training is RAD based and we call them petit battements but there are like a dozen names for everything. Look at pas de bourree's there is what 60 odd different versions of it. XD

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 I think battements serres and petit battements are the same thing, just called different things. my training is RAD based and we call them petit battements but there are like a dozen names for everything. Look at pas de bourree's there is what 60 odd different versions of it. XD

 

I don't think that battements serrés and petit battements are the same thing.  In petit battements there is a change of place - front/back/back/front.  In serré - there is not.  And serré is done much more quickly.

 

I remember reading that there are hundreds of different versions of pas de bourrés if you include the placement of the working foot:  at the ankle, at the knee, at the calf.  And then there are all the changes of direction: moving to the front, moving to the back, de coté, en tournant endors, entournant en dedans.  Also, on demi-pointe or full pointe.   I never personally counted them!  :)

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I don't think that battements serrés and petit battements are the same thing.  In petit battements there is a change of place - front/back/back/front.  In serré - there is not.  And serré is done much more quickly.

 

I remember reading that there are hundreds of different versions of pas de bourrés if you include the placement of the working foot:  at the ankle, at the knee, at the calf.  And then there are all the changes of direction: moving to the front, moving to the back, de coté, en tournant endors, entournant en dedans.  Also, on demi-pointe or full pointe.   I never personally counted them!   :)

 Just goes to show how much I know XD Gosh I always love reading your posts, they're so intellectual and insightful :D

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It's all minor differences in terminology. I would call that petit battement battu where there is no change in position of the beat.

 

I would call it petit battement battu serré - when there is no change in position of the beat.  

 

I always loved the syncopation of motion - the changes of emphasis on the "and" count in the back/front-front/back petit battement - especially on pointe.

Edited by Anjuli_Bai
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I must admit I have never (yet) done a battement serre which changes position .....Ive always done this with very quick(well for me) little beats coming back to the same place usually to the front or side.

 

Quite often petit Battements are combined with battement frappe.

The Russian style is slightly different in that it uses a pointed foot......for the frappe bit......but the petit Battements may be more similar.....now I'm writing this am not sure ......as I think RAD uses more of a foot wrapped round the ankle for the petit Battements whereas it's more of a pointed foot in Russian style.

 

I like them anyway whichever way you do them.

However I wish this would transfer over into beats like brisees more in centre work. ;(

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Fast forward (or watch it all...;-)...) to 21:30 to see a fiddly exercise combining battements frappes, rond de jambe en l'air and petits battlements, including petits battements serré which, although small, do still go back-front etc.

 

In terms of terminology, the RAD call the movement without a change of placing petits battements battu. This movement is often followed by a dégagé devant or à la seconde en fondu.

 

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What's interesting is that some of them are doing the frappes with pointed feet throughout and some aren't - did you notice? Different system of training? In my day you would not have had such diversity, because dancers had to have been trained in the school and have British nationality in order to be eligible to join the company - unless you were Nureyev of course!  Didn't you love the way the ballet master demonstrated with his hands and voice and everyone knew what he wanted?  It's like having a secret language!

 

In the RAD system, petits battements serres are always done with fully pointed feet as are petits battements battus.  Also regular petits battements are performed on demi-pointe in the RAD Advanced Vocational Grades with a fully pointed foot and not wrapped.

Edited by Dance*is*life
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Since my training was not syllabus based - except for three years of Cecchetti - I learned three different ways to hold the working foot:  flexed, wrapped and fully pointed.

 

 I found that in knowing all three that each had its uses as a teaching tool.  While the flexed foot is not used in performance (I've never seen it), it does make the beginner aware of the movement/placement of the heel in its front/back-back/front movement..   

 

A wrapped foot is very useful for illustrating to the student that "shaping" the foot takes place immediately as the foot is peeled off the floor and maintains this wrapped shape through the petit battements and on into the next pas - which might be - for instance - elevated into arabesque.  Shaping the foot into the wrapped position readies the foot for any eventuality.  However the wrapped foot will have some bend in the ankle when placed (or worked) at the supporting ankle..

 

The fully pointed working foot elminates any bend in the working ankle and almost of necessity is only useful when one is on demi or full pointe.

 

I found it useful to know and teach all three methods, if only, to make the student aware of the differences.

 

As for the serré battu - I suppose it depends upon what is choreographed.  Odette's version does not - it stays at the side - at least in the Swan Lakes I've observed over the years.

Edited by Anjuli_Bai
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