La Bayadere and current sensitivities

[Roberta]

5 minutes ago, Scheherezade said:

I find the appellation “a thought leader” very worrying. 

 

Someone who thinks, studies, researches and has shared those thoughts with others who have also thought and appreciated that there are problems?  I find that quite refreshing. All perfectly normal. It's maybe US terminology but that's where Boston Ballet is.  

 

 

https://www.kennedy-center.org/artists/c/ca-cn/phil-chan/#:~:text=Phil Chan is a co,alumnus of the Ailey School.

 

 

Phil Chan is a co-founder of Final Bow for Yellowface, and author of Final Bow for Yellowface: Dancing between Intention and Impact, and the President of the Gold Standard Arts Foundation. He is a graduate of Carleton College and an alumnus of the Ailey School. He has held fellowships with NYU, the Manhattan School of Music, New York Public Library for the Performing Arts, and is currently a fellow at Harvard University, Drexel University, and the Institut National d'Histoire de l'Art in Paris. As a writer, he served as the Executive Editor for FLATT Magazine and contributed to Dance Europe Magazine, Dance Magazine, Dance Business Weekly, and the Huffington Post, and current serves on the Advisory Board of Dance Magazine. He served multiple years on the National Endowment for the Arts dance panel and the Jadin Wong Award panel presented by the Asian American Arts Alliance. His latest choreography project, the "Ballet des Porcelaines,” premiered at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in December 2021 and will tour throughout 2022. He is a Benedict Distinguished Visiting Professor of Dance at Carleton College in Fall 2022 and was just named a Next 50 Arts Leader by the Kennedy Center.

 

 

Further information on Phil Chan here. A very distinguished CV.  https://www.danceusa.org/phil-chan-dance-usa-artist-fellow

 

[Scheherezade]

I hear what you say, Vanartus and Roberta, but I find the whole concept of a ‘thought leader’ not only worrying but somewhat sinister. Freedom of thought is something that should be enshrined in the ethos of every organisation, culture and society. Its absence can only have one outcome - bigotry, oppression and persecution. It also leads to an unedifying elitism on the part of those who believe that they know better than anyone who disagrees with them, and the inevitable and unacceptable rise of thought policing. I will say no more as I do not want to politicise this thread. 

[Roberta]

In this country we tend to say 'leading thinkers' as shorthand and I've never considered that to be difficult or worrying. Is it not how we evolve, move on?  Is this not what all who strive in academic circles to research and pose questions and propose solutions do? Think?

 

Is this not how racism against Black people was first challenged, by 'thought leaders' suggesting that hey, hang on, Black people are actually worthy of being treated exactly as non Black people are?  That we should examine our ideas and maybe change? Is this not how slavery was abolished? 

 

I appreciate that the 'thought' of not being able to watch certain ballets in future as hey, they are, once thought about, racist and culturally offensive as they stand to vast swathes of the world's population is hard for some to get heads around, but the cosy world of ballet is moving on and it is happening.  I suspect protesting to the ROH management on the grounds of 'don't care like it and want to see it' will cut little ice. 

 

And Tamara Rojo as AD will have to face all this at SF Ballet, as all other cultural leaders are having to do. 

 

 

[Lizbie1]

I can't answer for anyone else but the reason I'm not engaging in this discussion is that I feel like the subject has already been done to death across numerous threads.

[Roberta]

It's still very much a current issue though in the 'ballet world' it's not going to go away. How it is dealt with by different ballet company ADs remains a subject of interest.  Boston Ballet has its cards on the table.  Like it or not, racism and culturally offensive stereotypes in ballet are not being simply accepted as the norm 'because these are fairy stories and we enjoy the ballets' any longer.  Boredom with the issue is not going to make it vanish. 

 

An old one which is still relevant https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/dec/04/the-australian-ballets-nutcracker-tones-down-the-yellowface-and-its-a-relief

 

Edited February 18 by Roberta

[Roberta]

9 minutes ago, Mary said:

But isn't this thread about Rojo and SF ballet?

 

 

These issues haven't passed Rojo or SF Ballet by.  Not at all.   https://www.kqed.org/arts/13909322/sf-ballet-diversity-commitments

[Roberta]

18 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

Yes it is Mary so I've moved all the Bayadere and sensitivities posts into a new thread.

 

 

SF Ballet has been greatly affected by these issues though.  The dancers themselves demanded change.  https://www.kqed.org/arts/13909322/sf-ballet-diversity-commitments

 

 

Rojo isn't in a bubble outside the rest of the ballet world.   Rojo herself is very much aware (as she was at ENB) and will have to carry on dealing with them. Difficult to see how anyone can think this isn't about Rojo and SF Ballet.  https://digitalcommons.sia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1071&context=stu_theses

 

 

Edited February 18 by Roberta

[Emeralds]

The phrase thought leader is a tad silly and one which Phil Chan himself would probably not be keen on. He's trying to put respect and better choreography back into ballets and not trying to be some  powerful guru or influence - he gets enough work in ballet without needing to be a "famous campaigner" like Mr "antiBayadere" Zed. He worked with Georgina Pazcoguin (popular NYCB soloist who continued to dance during her time co-founding Final Bow) and they are both supported by many dancers and choreographers, who want them to be their voice. 

 

They have asked choreographers, directors (both stage directors as well as artistic directors!) and producers to look at all East Asian stereotypes that could be unturthful or potentially harmful in theatre works, including The King and I, Madame Butterfly, South Pacific - not just Nutcracker. Now not all productions have damaging stereotypes (San Francisco Ballet's production by Helgi Thomasson, for example, is respectful and accurate), and often it's only small areas that need changing. 

 

Most importantly, the main difference between Chan and Zed is that Chan and Final Bow have never written to or demanded that any ballet company cancel anything. And unlike Mr Zed, he's never gone after tiny struggling troupes and amateur clubs. He's never even demanded that companies cancel a dance or section of their ballet. Year after year, he and Pazcoguin, had conversations, put up the information digitally or in writing, patiently and quietly trying to educate and inform. The end goal is to make the ballets, musicals, operas etc more truthful, not to destroy half the classical repertoire. 

 

He's also explained that it isn't just about one ballet but re-educating creators and audiences not to accept limiting and damaging racist or ill-informed stereotypes that become gradually brainwashed into us as norms. I have even noticed that one very respected and much admired choreographer taking a long time to realise he himself had been slowly sucked into believing that racist mockery was a historically respectful tribute- I'm not sure if he has understood yet (but he has more pressing concerns on his mind now). It's fine if he isn't there yet as long as the conversation can continue- it's a slow process to undo years of habit.

 

But with regards Bayadere in Britain - and I think Mr Chan and Ms Pazcoguin would agree - instead of dragging in East Asian and other groups as well into the confusion,  let's hear from Ms Jeyasingh and other Hindu dancers, choreographers, dance teachers and audience members in Britain first and foremost. 

 

Edited February 18 by Emeralds

[Roberta]

I think Mr Zed is perhaps unfairly being the subject of ire when he is merely reflecting what is actually happening in the wider dance world, expressing the problems with the ballet La Bayadere from the cultural sensitivity perspective  and campaigning for change, as he has every right to do.  Taking newspaper articles at face value when making judgement about him possibly isn't telling the full story.

 

The issue isn't simply about Hinduism. 

 

Sir Peter Wright and the ADs of BRB and RB took onboard the perceived racism and cultural problems with Chinese and Arabian dances in Nutcracker some time ago and changed them. I'm not sure La Bayadere is so readily altered.  I have my suspicions we won't be seeing a revival at the ROH anytime soon though. 

 

 

[TSR101]

Roberta you can try to argue against it but actually you can claim an issue with almost any old ballet if you want. R&J is a ballet about Italian history by an Englishman (who probably never went to Italy) and his story has then been coopted by people from all over the world. The Sleeping Beauty needs to become The Awake with Eyes Closed and Fully Aware of Her Surroundings and Able to Consent Beauty. Don Q is one long litany of stereotypes. You can go on and on. 

The only thing that sets the ballets apart that are being suggested for revision, is that they are considered 'non-western' and therefore are purportedly deserving of some special protection for their cultural values. Nevermind that culture by its very nature is fluid and pulls from everywhere and always has done. Nevermind that throughout history those who have sought to create fantasies have drawn inaccurate or not from other cultures, not there own. 

La Bayadere for all its inaccuracies is hardly a hard-hitting diminishment of culture from the Indian subcontinent. I doubt any sane person comes out with some negative idea about Hinduism or India. Anyone who complains should be challenged on what exactly in the ballet they find offensive about it, and it's my culture and you can't use isn't good enough. This exactly the problem with the RB's change of the Arabian Dance because of 'harem overtones' - but they did have harems. So what is the objection? That we shouldn't depict it, that a harem isn't a suitable topic for a family ballet? The problem with getting rid of the hair in the Chinese dance, is why have wigs to depict European hairstyles from a historical period in any ballet? Manon for a start. The hairstyles in the Chinese dance weren't yellow face, they were a depiction of imperial Chinese hairstyles which were meant to match the costumes they were wearing.

To please Zed, I am more than happy for RB to commission a hard-hitting but accurate ballet of historical Indian culture, where we see the progression of a 12 year old child bride married to a 60 year old man through to her eventual demise 8 years later when she tied to a pyre and immolated in an act of sati. It would provide a vastly more negative portrayal of Indian culture than anything in La Bayadere. 


 

[Roberta]

29 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

R&J is a ballet about Italian history by an Englishman (who probably never went to Italy)

 

R and J is a ballet (ballets in fact) by various choreographers based on possibly the writing of Will Shakespeare (with alterations)  who took the story from elsewhere for his play.  

 

The issues include ones of racism and orientalism really.  Those are biggies. And we can say 'Oh it's only a fairy tale which nobody takes seriously' all we like but we need to look at the wider problems of carrying on promoting and re-enforcing those stereotypes on the grounds we are not the ones trying to overcome centuries of prejudice and we like a nice night out at the ballet. 

 

And thankfully the ADs of ballet companies appear to be taking this onboard and ignoring the 'oh it's political correctness gorn mad'  and the Daily Mail comments section blusterers  and simply getting on with change. 

 

 

Edited February 18 by Roberta

[Emeralds]

25 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

The problem with getting rid of the hair in the Chinese dance, is why have wigs to depict European hairstyles from a historical period in any ballet? Manon for a start. The hairstyles in the Chinese dance weren't yellow face, they were a depiction of imperial Chinese hairstyles which were meant to match the costumes they were wearing.


 

@TSR101, there was yellowface makeup in the original 1984 version right up to 2012. They weren't coloured yellow but all the men were powdered down and given "Fu Manchu" moustaches and beards. It's the same thing. 

 

i should explain that the queues (very long single braids for men with half their head shaved)  - since many seem to be unaware- were not historical hairstyles at all but a symbol of Manchu suppression of all Chinese males when they invaded the country and seized the throne. It's similar to Jews being forced to wear a white armband with a Star of David and the word "Jew" on it or yellow badge with the star and word in Nazi Germany. Only worse- you can't remove it when you go home, it's the man's actual hair and not a wig, and Manchurian soldiers could pull on it (since it is long and uncut) to cause physical pain to those they were told to persecute. If men didn't comply with ahaving their head and growing one, they would be seized, imprisoned and killed- family members could as well. Would you agree with dancers wearing a Star of David to represent Jews (Russian Jews? Polish Jews?) in a production of Nutcracker? 

 

It happened in history, sure. Not something that one should be celebrating though. 

Edited February 18 by Emeralds

[Roberta]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/arts/dance/nutcracker-asian-stereotypes-rethinking.html

 

 "“The Nutcracker,” the classic holiday ballet, is back after the long pandemic shutdown. But many dance companies are reworking the show this year partly in response to a wave of anti-Asian hate that intensified during the pandemic, and a broader reckoning over racial discrimination.

“Everybody learned a lot this year, and I just want to make sure there’s absolutely nothing that could ever be considered as insulting to Chinese culture,” said Mikko Nissinen, artistic director of Boston Ballet, who choreographed the ribbon dance. “We look at everything through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion. That’s the way of the future.” "

 

 

[TSR101]

11 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

@TSR101, there was yellowface makeup in the original 1984 version right up to 2012. They weren't coloured yellow but all the men were powdered down and given "Fu Manchu" moustaches and beards. 

 

i should explain that the queues - since many seem to be unaware- were not historical hairstyles at all but a symbol of Manchu suppression of all Chinese males when they invaded the country and seized the throne. It's similar to Jews being forced to wear a white armband with a Star of David and the word "Jew" on it or yellow badge with the star and word in Nazi Germany. Only worse- you can't remove it when you go home, it's the man's actual hair and not a wig, and Manchurian soldiers could pull on it (since it is long and uncut) to cause physical pain to those they were told to persecute. Would you agree with dancers wearing a Star of David to represent Jews (Russian Jews? Polish Jews?) in a production of Nutcracker? 

 

It happened in history, sure. Not something that one should be celebrating though. 

The latest changes were to remove the hairstyles and not yellowface and if you have a problem with that particular historical Chinese hairstyle (which they were) then simply change for another, historical Chinese hairstyle. I am sorry the comparison with the Star of David  in the context of the holocaust and the intention to exterminate a group of people is simply historically inaccurate.  

Edited February 18 by TSR101

[TSR101]

14 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

R and J is a ballet by various choreographers based on possibly the writing of Will Shakespeare (with alterations)  who took the story from elsewhere for his play.  

 

The issues include ones of racism and orientalism really.  Those are biggies. And we can say 'Oh it's only a fairy tale which nobody takes seriously' all we like but we need to look at the wider problems of carrying on promoting and re-enforcing those stereotypes on the grounds we are not the ones trying to overcome centuries of prejudiceand we like a nice night out at the ballet. 

 

And thankfully the ADs of ballet companies appear to be taking this onboard and ignoring the 'oh it's political correctness gorn mad'  and the Daily Mail comments section blusterers  and simply getting on with change. 

 

 

Roberta you can keep saying the same point but you address none that has been aimed at you. You also rather demonstrate the point. The ADs aren't responding to popular opinion or what people feel, they are bending to the whim of a minority. Trying to diminish those who disagree by referring to it as 'oh it's political correctness gorn mad'  and the Daily Mail comments section blusterers' demonstrates your weakness. 

[TSR101]

4 minutes ago, Roberta said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/arts/dance/nutcracker-asian-stereotypes-rethinking.html

 

 "“The Nutcracker,” the classic holiday ballet, is back after the long pandemic shutdown. But many dance companies are reworking the show this year partly in response to a wave of anti-Asian hate that intensified during the pandemic, and a broader reckoning over racial discrimination.

“Everybody learned a lot this year, and I just want to make sure there’s absolutely nothing that could ever be considered as insulting to Chinese culture,” said Mikko Nissinen, artistic director of Boston Ballet, who choreographed the ribbon dance. “We look at everything through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion. That’s the way of the future.” "

 

 

There is SO SO SO much to fear from the phrase - 'I want to make sure there's absolutely nothing that could ever be considered as insulting' - that is such an incredibly wide remit and exactly the problem. Would the man make sure that there the same level of concern for a western culture? Would he stop a production ballet, theatre, opera, film that denigrated a Christian god? 

I am actually shocked that someone could get away with saying that. I suppose he would criticise a play that sought to examine the origins of covid and how it related to the secretive practices of the Chinese communist state - in case it insulted China. 

Edited February 18 by TSR101

[Emeralds]

11 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

The latest changes were to remove the hairstyles and not yellowface and if you have a problem with that particular historical Chinese hairstyle (which they were) then simply change for another, historical Chinese hairstyle. I am sorry the comparison with the Star of David is simply historically inaccurate.  

They have- their own hair is accurate. Sir Peter can choose another period if he wishes. But he has chosen a costume of martial art and Chinese opera acrobatic training uniform/!costume which is athletic and beautiful that many modern young audiences will recognise and is culturally correct for many years bar that period of foreign invasion. The Waltz of the Flowers isn't from any country or century either. 

 

What makes you say it is historically inaccurate? Have you been to China to exhume and count the number of political prisoners' graves? Are you a history lecturer on both East Asian history and Jewish/WW2  history? 

Edited February 18 by Emeralds

[Roberta]

Does it? You think trying to overcome prejudice is weak and I shouldn't bother (I've tried to counter it most of my life) and that all those ADs who are altering their repertoire  are weak and should be bowing instead to those who think racism and racist / cultural stereotyping in ballet is OK and doesn't need rethinking as they like things as they are?   

That those who do want to overcome prejudice are a minority?  

 

Well.  A not so popular opinion then in the LA Times it seems. 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-fisher-nutcracker-chinese-dance-revisionism-20181211-story.html

[TSR101]

20 minutes ago, Roberta said:

Does it? You think trying to overcome prejudice is weak and I shouldn't bother (I've tried to counter it most of my life) and that all those ADs who are altering their repertoire  are weak and should be bowing instead to those who think racism and racist / cultural stereotyping in ballet is OK and doesn't need rethinking as they like things as they are?   

That those who do want to overcome prejudice are a minority?  

 

Well.  A not so popular opinion then in the LA Times it seems. 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-fisher-nutcracker-chinese-dance-revisionism-20181211-story.html

To be clear Roberta, as a mixed race person who is part welsh, part English, part Scottish, part Indian, your conflation of this with racism to me is offensive because it's not. Trying to conflate this with the right for people to have jobs and housing, to be not abused on the street, be treated equally is also offensive, because this is not about trying to be treated equally, its trying to be treated unequally, in a way that affords special protections. There is literally nothing racist about the plot and characters in La Bayadere. 

Your action, to try and claim the moral right, as though no one should argue with you, and if they do, they are morally wrong, is EXACTLY, why people are scared of speaking up to try and prevent this loud minority. Well done for demonstrating it. 

Edited February 18 by TSR101

[Roberta]

22 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

denigrated a Christian god? 

 

For the record, there is only one God worshipped by Christians.  I hope we are moving forward in the ballet world with sensitivity to all cultures. and beliefs. It's not simple to alter ballets and mindsets but also where it can be done, I think it should be. 

 

I really can't see there is anything to argue about in this. 

[TSR101]

2 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

For the record, there is only one God worshipped by Christians.  I hope we are moving forward in the ballet world with sensitivity to all cultures. and beliefs. It's not simple to alter ballets and mindsets but also where it can be done, I think it should be. 

 

I really can't see there is anything to argue about in this. 

Really? Christians believe in one god, but the exact form of that god between Christian faiths is not always the same but once again good try at evading the substance of any point put to you. 

[Roberta]

2 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

To be clear Roberta, as a mixed race person who is part welsh, part English, part Scottish, part Indian, your conflation of this with racism to me is offensive because it's not. Trying to conflate this with the right for people to have jobs and housing, to be not abused on the street, be treated equally is also offensive, because this is not about trying to be treated equally, its trying to be treated unequally, in a way that affords special protections. There is literally nothing racist about the plot and characters in La Bayadere

 

 

This is partly about racism as well as cultural stereotyping. 

 

Blackface has been featured in many productions of La Bayadere. I think probably still is in Russia. Paris Opera Ballet too until recently when dancers said no. If you follow that link above there is a picture of BRBs Nutcracker with Yellowface makeup (gone now).  I think Blackface is generally considered racist and inappropriate.  

these days. 

 

This is a ballet forum, and I'm trying to keep it to how certain issues affect ballet not the wider issues of society. 

 

I'm actually startled at the lack of awareness of what's happening in the ballet world and staggered some can't can't see that things really should change. This isn't a minority view or me being weak or ADs of ballet companies weakly pandering to minorities. It's what's happening in the world in 2024. 

[Roberta]

22 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

good try at evading the substance of any point put to you. 

 

Your main point among a mish mash appears to be that some ballet company ADs are pandering to a vociferous minority (who should be ignored) in attempting to eradicate racism and cultural stereotyping from the ballets they present to audiences. You appear to think it is a bad thing, that we should deem these stereotypical and even racist portrayals as unimportant. 

 

My point, for which I keep linking to evidence, is that it's a current widely held view that things need to change and they are changing. It's not new or news really. 

 

You could try writing to all those companies altering their rep to say that you feel they are wrong, of course, instead of railing at me here. 

Edited February 18 by Roberta

[capybara]

Just to mention that the Arabian Dance in Nutcracker was actually changed originally to reduce the amount of close interpersonal contact among dancers during COVID.

[TSR101]

10 minutes ago, Roberta said:

I'm actually startled at the lack of awareness of what's happening in the ballet world and staggered some can't can't see that things really should change. This isn't a minority view or me being weak or ADs of ballet companies weakly pandering to minorities. It's what's happening in the world in 2024.

You mistake lack of awareness for lack of agreement. You fail to respond to any of the points put to you. You fail to put forward the basic premise of what is objectionable in the ballet La Bayadere - in this instance blackface/yellowface hasn't actually been argued for, those particular production techniques may be employed by some companies but are not an integral part of La Bayadere. You fail to realise that if you were to eradicate cultural stereotyping you would eradicate much of the western narrative ballet canon which are full of stereotypes as is much of most cultures dramatic depictions. You fail to realise you only care about giving special protections to 'non-western' cultures and alas you fail to state how La Bayadere itself is racist, simply choosing instead to try and claim some position as a crusader for justice and equality. Your contempt demonstrates perfectly why people don't stand up to those who speak loudly for the minority. 
 
Alas I am off to tonights Gala.

 

 

[Roberta]

1 minute ago, capybara said:

Just to mention that the Arabian Dance in Nutcracker was actually changed originally to reduce the amount of close interpersonal contact among dancers during COVID.

 

Though Peter Wright also altered it it for BRB as it was not considered appropriate as it stood  and nothing to do with the pandemic. 

[Roberta]

2 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

You fail to respond to any of the points put to you.

 I keep responding to the points and you choose to ignore. 

 

You make many erroneous assumptions about me which I'm finding quite amusing.  That you think 'I fail to realise' is your own assumption, I realise a great deal. 

 

The world of ballet, as I keep saying, is changing and I gather you don't like the change but it's going to happen (is happening) without you. It simply bemuses me that you denigrate me as a 'moral crusader' who should be ignored for pointing out what's going on outside the tiny bubble of this forum.  

 

[CHazell2]

I don't think that this debate is very helpful or constructive. Can we all agree to disagree and enjoy the ballets as they are. They are not supposed to be a reflection of real life and speaking personally, I don't like people who are seeking out reasons to be insulted when there was no offence intended. 

 

La Bayadere is of its time and whilst it is not my favourite of ballets, I can see its importance in the classical canon, but I don't believe that we should rewrite history in any shape or form. I am a trained historian and one of the things that I was taught is never to project your personal values and opinions onto the past, but instead look through the people who were there.

 

I think that the problem is too many people think that the past was just like today but it wasn't and we shouldn't erase anything that we find 'problematic' because that wouldn't be a true reflection of how things really were.  Let's not sanitise or bowdlerise the past

 

I think that the ballets should stay as they are. Far better to let sleeping dogs lie

 

 

 

Edited February 18 by CHazell2

[DVDfan]

I don't know about Bayadere productions elsewhere, but my own feeling is the RB one could do with a rework and a redesign anyway - so let's move it to medieval Europe, thus keeping the plot and the magical shades scene, but removing the upset. 

 

Though, again with reference to the RB production, several of the main characters are costumed as Moghul ruling class - and therefore Muslim not Hindu. The main characters who are presumably Hindu - Nikiya and the High Brahmin - are just human. He's in the thrall of an unrequitable love, while she is betrayed by her fiance/husband. 

 

But if it upsets people, there's no need to do it in that setting. The purpose of art is to reflect life, sometimes to muse upon it or point up a moral, and to  entertain. As Bayadere is entertainment, any offence is pointless.

[Roberta]

6 minutes ago, CHazell2 said:

I think that the ballets should stay as they are. Far better to let sleeping dogs lie

 

I didn't raise this issue and it's now been moved and taken out of the context of the thread it was originally in ( I think a post or two haven't resurfaced?)  I did attempt to put some perspective on it with links to the world outside of this forum as I felt there were certain unpleasant undertones in some of what was being said, I won't labour that point.  I actually feel quite sad that certain cultural sensitivities which upset can be so readily dismissed because well, foreigners. And thinkers. 

 

What is still being overlooked is that things aren't really carrying on as they were, that productions are being altered of various ballets, certain ballets are being dropped either quietly or with a little more announcement and a great deal of this desire for change is coming from dancers / dance people themselves.  Paris Opera Ballet? San Francisco Ballet?  Ballet is in flux.  If we want audiences to renew we have to appreciate that things will change. 

 

I love the old ballets as much as anyone. However, I can see the wider problems and I don't think I'm in a minority.  

 

[James]

1 hour ago, CHazell2 said:

I don't think that this debate is very helpful or constructive. Can we all agree to disagree and enjoy the ballets as they are. They are not supposed to be a reflection of real life and speaking personally, I don't like people who are seeking out reasons to be insulted when there was no offence intended. 

 

La Bayadere is of its time and whilst it is not my favourite of ballets, I can see its importance in the classical canon, but I don't believe that we should rewrite history in any shape or form. I am a trained historian and one of the things that I was taught is never to project your personal values and opinions onto the past, but instead look through the people who were there.

 

I think that the problem is too many people think that the past was just like today but it wasn't and we shouldn't erase anything that we find 'problematic' because that wouldn't be a true reflection of how things really were.  Let's not sanitise or bowdlerise the past

 

I think that the ballets should stay as they are. Far better to let sleeping dogs lie

 

 

 

Of course we shouldn’t sanitise or bowdlerise the past, but we shouldn’t misrepresent it either, which is precisely what La Bayadere is doing in its current form.

i would recommend this article to anyone who wonders what is perceived as unacceptable in that ballet.

https://pointemagazine.com/la-bayadere-orientalist-stereotypes/

[Roberta]

From 2019, what Misty Copeland saw as unacceptable.   https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ballet-racism-bolshoi/30326333.html

 

I recall sitting in a cine relay of the Bolshoi's Bayadere when the 'Blackface' dancers arrived onstage and there was a loud gasp of shock from the audience. No matter what the Bolshoi management say, it isn't only one Black dancer in the US who has problems with this. Yes it's historical, though is it acceptable? 

 

“Over the years, some ballet companies have grown wise to the cultural and racial insensitivities of this ballet and have elected to no longer perform it,” Patrick Frenette, who dances with Copeland at the American Ballet Theater, wrote under her post.

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, DVDfan said:

I don't know about Bayadere productions elsewhere, but my own feeling is the RB one could do with a rework and a redesign anyway - so let's move it to medieval Europe, thus keeping the plot and the magical shades scene, but removing the upset.

 

How about moving it to ancient Greece or Rome? Then there could still be a temple with dancers, which you couldn't have in Medieval Europe, and there are plenty of earthquakes in the Mediterranean area for the destruction of the temple at the end.