How to identify good-quality local training

[Beezie]

This is a great discussion!  PlainJaney has a really good point.  Especially if you don’t have dance experience, it is really hard to recognize ‘quality.’  I’d love to hear the attributes others look for in quality training or quality dance experiences.  (Though I recognize some of the posters have already  made some very good and specific recommendations along these lines.)

[Anna C]

@glowlight has said everything perfectly. 👏🏻👏🏻 And if your dd doesn’t think she wants to have a career performing as a ballet dancer, there’s absolutely no hurry, and no need to worry about “getting behind”, particularly compared to her friend.  

 

As glowlight says, unless the studio is new, it’s always good to see where dancers go onto for full-time training, does the studio allow/encourage Associates, do the students make good progress with technique and artistry; if the school does exams are children entered when they’re ready or is there just one exam session for the whole class, that sort of thing.  

 

A really great way to see how your child and the teaching compare to other dancers of the same age is to audition for a CAT or good selective Associate scheme, because dancers come from all over the region/country.  

[Ruby Foo]

3 hours ago, Beezie said:

This is a great discussion!  PlainJaney has a really good point.  Especially if you don’t have dance experience, it is really hard to recognize ‘quality.’  I’d love to hear the attributes others look for in quality training or quality dance experiences.  (Though I recognize some of the posters have already  made some very good and specific recommendations along these lines.)

I think this is one of the most difficult tasks for a parent who has no experience in dance. 
When I was looking for a really good local school for my Dd, it was really easy because I was an ex dancer/ teacher. The school we chose would have been a surprise to many people I guess. There were plenty large and prolific schools who won competitions and boasted exam results but the one we chose was tiny and out in the styx. We were new to the area so we were coming in blind. The teacher was a well qualified RAD teacher but she had very few classes and nothing other than ballet. She did exams but no competitions or anything else. The advert was the first thing to catch my attention because the pictures showed dancers who were technically correct in placement and nothing showy or 'wowing' in nature. There was a quiet attention to detail from the start. From my own training, I could look through the window, and be happy that this teacher knows her stuff. The care with which she demonstrated the exercises and spent time correcting the students was healthy. The students paid attention, were disciplined but having fun. All this proved to be correct allowing my child to pursue dance more seriously later down the line. But if you don't have that inside knowledge? Firstly look at the teachers qualifications and research.

Does the teacher have other past experience that might widen his/ hers experience in teaching or dance?

What does the teacher do to keep in contact with other teachers/ new ideas/ courses?

How many children in a class? Can the teacher really get round to give every child corrections? And are these corrections followed up diligently week after week after week followed by praise when achieved? Usually your child can tell you if they've been asked to work on something they need to improve.

Does the teacher let you watch one class from time to time and if so, is the class well organised? Positive?  Disciplined in that the teacher grabs the students attention and makes the most of the studio time by working through the syllabus or free work, stopping to make corrections and having some joyful moments too? Attention to the uniform and hair and shoes tidy?

Does the teacher give a little feedback to parents from time to time?

Does the teacher help with extra strength or conditioning exercises where needed and is she/ he keen to stress the safety of doing exercises at home?

Do a few pupils from the school go on to do associate classes? Usually the school will post these successes on social media.There are quite a few associates about now but reading this forum should clue you up.

When it's exam time, does the teacher 

take great care to make sure the students are well prepared? Pay attention to every little detail...the steps, presentation, confidence, music, shoes, leotards, hair, smiles?
These are just a few ideas / guidelines that might help but that's all they can do. I'm sure other people have other ideas. For example, I have had the most incredible ballet teachers ( for older students) that sat on a chair for the whole class and never demonstrated a thing! 

Applying for a good associate class will tell you if your child has potential and some correct technical ability (younger students will be potential only) and the classes themselves will tell you if they are mirroring their own classes at home and are on track.

[Beezie]

Valentina, very helpful!  Thank you!

 

We have changed studios a couple of times by necessity.  Frankly, this forum as been SO helpful in providing advice in finding our current studio, which is the best of those we’ve tried.

 

I still struggle to spot quality.  I feel like I’ve gotten better at spotting red flags.  Here are the ones that (in hindsight) I should have spotted earlier:

- Studio that oversells what they are.  They tell you about all their aspirations, but you sense they haven’t quite reached them yet.

- Clear favoritism, either with parents or students and usually tied to personal friendships with the staff.

- Desire to ‘sell more.’  Private lessons are pushed as an ‘advancer’ for all students.

- The teachers waste a lot of time getting the kids organized, music on etc.  Or your dancer comes back not feeling ‘well worked’ or challenged.

- Older girls’ progress.  By teen years, I feel like I can compare skill to what I see by professional dancers….so it is a little easier to judge.

 

The worst are the ‘in between’ schools….as you spend a lot of time figuring out if they are a good fit.  They may have some great characteristics and also some real faults.

The hard thing is that I am still terrible at figuring all this out when trialing a school.  We are usually 6 months in-attendance before I seem to spot some of these things.  ….and changing schools is hard on my daughter.  Though, in our case, we move quite often so that has really been the trigger for switching schools.  

 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

I also meant to say that while social media can give a good gauge of a school’s successes, as most post about DCs who got associates and full time places, in recent years I noticed that a good number of these successes are posted by multiple schools and teachers. Some are clearly collaborative endeavours as such (which is good) but I’ve also seen some comments on posts  that suggest that not all collaborative successes were intentional or known. I suppose my point is that not everything is as obvious and it’s still more  important to be where both you and DD are happy. It would also be a reasonable assumption that not all teachers/schools that offer high quality training are active on social media. 

[alison]

(This thread has been branched off from another one, which is why there appear to be some gaps.)  The other thread is here:

 

https://www.balletcoforum.com/topic/25170-how-to-help-dd/#comment-366448

 

[Pas de Quatre]

It may sound cynical, but frequently the quality of the teaching is in inverse proportion to the boasting on social media!

[FlexyNexy]

I would try to speak to parents that the children since graduated from that particular school or approach parents in front of school gates. The best info I have found in circle of mums standing by the gate and waiting for their kids. Skip through the gossip and concentrate on facts you want to know.
What I have learned? Do not trust school social media and good renowned name school might not be the perfect fit for the child, the taste lessons would be more intensive than they are during normal days. See where are the students now and try to find how they got there. I have learned a lot on how some kids get their places at upper schools and how the schools tend to bloat about it. 
Mind blowing!

[PJW]

I think if there was one thing I would say to look for it would be to look at the number of older students. In particular the proportion of children that stay at the school all the way through to 16+. If a school has been around for 10 years or more then it should have a decent number of older dancers. It is really difficult to keep kids dancing through teenage years and there will always be a drop off but good schools keep kids inspired and have the ability and knowledge to allow them to keep making progress all the way to the end of a levels.

 

If possible try to get to an end of year show or similar so you can see whether it is somewhere that will continue to cater for your child as they get older.

 

Another thing I would add is that class prices have virtually no relationship to the quality of the school whatsoever from what I've observed over time so don't use that as a guide.

 

Also schools change over time so don't rely too much on reputation as this can be slow to change. The school that had lots of students going to college 10-15 years ago may not be the best school on the area right now. 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

On 15/02/2022 at 06:44, Pas de Quatre said:

It may sound cynical, but frequently the quality of the teaching is in inverse proportion to the boasting on social media!

Absolutely. I know it’s probably unfounded and just me slightly overthinking things but I am wary of schools who post too much and often post the exact same DCs over and over again and usually multiple times over the same success. Whilst most DCs are supportive of each other, I find that this type of social media (over)engagement can be the source of drama and upset feelings internally especially with both parents and DCs these days being social media savvy. It’s usually the case that those who get celebrated all the time have their confidence boosted even more (and often these are the DCs who are already confident anyway) and those who never get a “look in” just hide even more inside their shells and are overlooked. Not all kids are motivated by others’ successes, the same way that not all DCs have the same personality and would respond to the same teaching style and methods of encouragement. Perhaps more important than the quality of teaching, I would look into how happy and settled current students are overall (mental health!) - and I’m not just talking about the “star students”. Check which schools seem to have a high number of students coming and going and which have students who last there a long time. The ballet world is so small that the best references I’ve heard are outside of social media (word of mouth, personal recommendations, current parents of DCs who go to those schools, parents of DCs who have left, etc). Even if you don’t go out on a fact finding mission, you often find out these things by chance just waiting with other parents for DCs to come out of associates etc. Remember also that some might be gossip or hearsay so I tend to pick out first hand experiences and at the back of my mind I also think that where there’s smoke there’s fire. 

[Kerfuffle]

Sometimes the high powered schools have disproportionate amounts of kids in top associates (RBS) and also dominate the festival scene. From what I’ve observed this can make a school seem  impressive but it’s not always the best place for the individual dancer. It might just be that that school is more clued up when it comes to putting children forward particularly at the JA stage but doesn’t really guarantee good teaching (especially since so much of JA success is based on physique). I would look for a school with a lot of keen teenage ballet dancers in particular if you want a good ballet school - my DD’s previous school put on wonderful shows but scratching beneath the surface it became obvious that the emphasis was far more on modern and not ballet. One of the modern teachers often made derogatory comments about ballet in coaching lessons. Also just a few families dominated that school - they had a huge influence on who taught there and sadly some really good ballet staff were lost because their DDs didn’t get on with them, partly because they were so used to being considered the best that they resented a teacher who was honest with them about their ability in ballet. We had to move to somewhere that put ballet first and haven’t looked back since. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Kerfuffle

[Neverdancedjustamum]

4 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Sometimes the high powered schools have disproportionate amounts of kids in top associates (RBS) and also dominate the festival scene. From what I’ve observed this can make a school seem  impressive but it’s not always the best place for the individual dancer. It might just be that that school is more clued up when it comes to putting children forward particularly at the JA stage but doesn’t really guarantee good teaching (especially since so much of JA success is based on physique). I would look for a school with a lot of keen ballet dancers in particular if you want a good ballet school - sadly loads drop out at this age. 

I totally agree with this. I’ve sometimes found it uncomfortable seeing schools’ posts where JAs are clearly the main stars, to the point where you’ll notice that even in group photos that don’t have anything to do with associates success, the JAs are always front and centre and those who aren’t are usually relegated to the side or back. It makes me wonder how those other DCs feel especially where this arrangement is consistent and persistent across posts. Some of the happiest dance students I’ve known are those who go to dance schools that don’t have a push for associates or auditioning for full time or those that don’t enter competitions. I am not generalising but my point is that depending on what your DC is looking for, the school should be a good fit. The best fit for your DC may not be the more popular schools but where the DC will thrive and be happy for many years, where the DC’s love for dance won’t be dimmed by competition or (perceived or not) preference for only high achieving students etc.

[Kerfuffle]

19 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I totally agree with this. I’ve sometimes found it uncomfortable seeing schools’ posts where JAs are clearly the main stars, to the point where you’ll notice that even in group photos that don’t have anything to do with associates success, the JAs are always front and centre and those who aren’t are usually relegated to the side or back. It makes me wonder how those other DCs feel especially where this arrangement is consistent and persistent across posts. Some of the happiest dance students I’ve known are those who go to dance schools that don’t have a push for associates or auditioning for full time or those that don’t enter competitions. I am not generalising but my point is that depending on what your DC is looking for, the school should be a good fit. The best fit for your DC may not be the more popular schools but where the DC will thrive and be happy for many years, where the DC’s love for dance won’t be dimmed by competition or (perceived or not) preference for only high achieving students etc.

I would agree with you about how those successful schools might feel for non JA students. I guess that the school then fuels the problem, the JAs and their parents are made to feel like they are in a different league to everyone else and then it becomes inevitable that they get the best profiles on social media . I suppose also that  they are under the tremendous stress of auditions for full time schools at 11 which can’t be easy.  In hindsight we were lucky not to be in that atmosphere. Perhaps the best judge of how the school is is what happens from year 7 onwards, when vocational training sorting hat has happened and things calm down again. It’s all down to the individual teachers at the end of the day, less about the name and fame of the school, social media reputations being rather unreliable.