All England Dance 2019

[Loopy]

OK... so anyone at one of the Regional Finals this week?? We are at the South East in Crawley. Standard is amazing this year!! 

[Foreverdrivingtodance]

We have been!!! Yes really high standard. A lovely girl from our dance school came first in her ballet today. She is 14 years old. Some really great dance schools out there 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Dancer123

[Loopy]

Hi. At the SE too? Or another region? 

[Foreverdrivingtodance]

Yes SE at Crawley

[Loopy]

Do you happen to remember anyone else who qualified? It’s driving me nuts that we aren’t seeing positions posted. I guess it’s GDPR and all that. We will be there tomorrow... yikes 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Loopy

[Foreverdrivingtodance]

In that age group? 

[Loopy]

Yes please

[Dance44]

Spent most of the week at the Midland and North Regional. A mistake I won't repeat and can only advise others not to bother with. 

[Foreverdrivingtodance]

Oh really?! Why’s that?

[Dance44]

We were warned what to expect and saw it first hand. Very poor adjudication and a bias towards certain schools. I've no idea why, i'll leave others to answer that, but very obvious. Never again. 

[Loopy]

Really? We’ve had two of the three adjudicators in m/n and one has always been brilliant and I’ve never sensed a bias! The other I don’t much care for - but it’s all subjective at the end of the day. 

[Jan McNulty]

A post has been hidden while it is being discussed by Moderators as it may be in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy.

[Jen51]

I have briefly been at m/n regionals and from what I have seen I pretty much agreed with adjudication. I’m no expert though! 

[Dance44]

My previous comment was removed for being critical whilst using a pseudonym which I understand and have no problem with. The reason I did it that way was to avoid the Dance School my daughter represented getting into any trouble. If I could I'd say more but again that would identify my daughter and frankly 'All England' (and the 3 schools who bother turning up) was always low on our priorities anyway. I wish all the competitors who danced the best and am just relieved I won't have to go through another week like this one again.

[Jen51]

25 minutes ago, Dance44 said:

My previous comment was removed for being critical whilst using a pseudonym which I understand and have no problem with. The reason I did it that way was to avoid the Dance School my daughter represented getting into any trouble. If I could I'd say more but again that would identify my daughter and frankly 'All England' (and the 3 schools who bother turning up) was always low on our priorities anyway. I wish all the competitors who danced the best and am just relieved I won't have to go through another week like this one again.

I’m sorry you feel this way. All we can ever ask is that out dancers do their best and although hard at times,  remember it is personal opinion, although with 3 judges you would hope it would be accurate. We never know what they see and how they decide. 

[Dance44]

1 hour ago, Jen51 said:

I’m sorry you feel this way. All we can ever ask is that out dancers do their best and although hard at times,  remember it is personal opinion, although with 3 judges you would hope it would be accurate. We never know what they see and how they decide. 

"Never know what they see and how they decide".....At least we can agree on that.

[richieN]

I often think the judges marking criteria should be more transparent. Perhaps like gymnastics or ice skating, where they have criteria like artistic impression and technical merit etc.

[Jen51]

28 minutes ago, Dance44 said:

"Never know what they see and how they decide".....At least we can agree on that.

I’m sure you agree it’s about going out and doing your best too! 

Like I said I was only briefly there with my child, the dance world is tough  but we have to move on positively and teach our children it’s the right thing to do even if we do think they should have been given a place .

[Dance44]

 

1 hour ago, Jen51 said:

I’m sure you agree it’s about going out and doing your best too! 

Like I said I was only briefly there with my child, the dance world is tough  but we have to move on positively and teach our children it’s the right thing to do even if we do think they should have been given a place .

Wholeheartedly agree and also my daughter knows to believe her teachers with years of professional dance experience and teaching at a proffesional level over GCSE dance teachers. My daughter by the way thinks it's all hilarious. 

[Loopy]

I’m surprised so few schools attend MN. DD competed in a Senior Modern group section yesterday that had 26 dance schools!! The modern section for 9-10 had 102 dancers!! 

[Loopy]

2 hours ago, richieN said:

 

I often think the judges marking criteria should be more transparent. Perhaps like gymnastics or ice skating, where they have criteria like artistic impression and technical merit etc.

 

Im pretty sure most judges are looking for those things and more. I’ve scribed for adjudicators and have been fascinated by what they pick up on. I don’t envy their job when they are trying to choose just 3 from over 100 dancers who are all

lovely. 

[Jen51]

35 minutes ago, Loopy said:

I’m surprised so few schools attend MN. DD competed in a Senior Modern group section yesterday that had 26 dance schools!! The modern section for 9-10 had 102 dancers!! 

There were 41 different schools entered for m/n region 

[Dance44]

9 minutes ago, Jen51 said:

There were 41 different schools entered for m/n region 

My DD competed in two sections where 50% of the  entries where from just two schools and one section where the figure was nearly 70%. The program in front of me shows in other sections that figure was 80% from these same two schools. Wonder why no one else bothers??

[annaliesey]

21 minutes ago, Dance44 said:

Wonder why no one else bothers??

 I can only say why we don’t bother - boring, inconsistent and out of touch  

 

personally we prefer American style competitions with different scoring and critiques that help dancers develop and a cheerful vibe with clapping and encouragement. 

[Mrs Brown]

we didn't go to our regionals (child qualified one dance) for a few reasons. 1 it was hours away,  2 it clashed with out local festival and 3 our teacher isn't paid up with the £60 so it would have cost us £69 to enter not just £9 as with only 1 child qualified I couldn't expect the teacher to pay that themselves.  I would have liked her to have the experience of doing it but it just didn't really make sense for us.

 

I think lots of schools enter but the vast majority are there for one or two styles whilst certain schools supply virtually all competitors for National or Greek for example because so few schools teach them.

 

Don't get me started on dodgy adjudication though - being very careful here not to say something I shouldn't but when there is a national entry that during adjudication the adjudicator announces is from a different place to where it is (!!!!!!!! it was a bit like them watching a Russian dance and then saying "dances from Italy...") and then proceeds to give completely incorrect corrections you wonder why you bothered. Sadly we are now wondering whether to do it again as it is quite insulting to the children when it is clearly obvious their dance was performed exceptionally well but they receive a low mark and irrelevant comments. The dance is extremely technical, 100% accurate and was performed with perfect timing (duet). It is a national dance style that they study weekly and take exams in rather than just learn a national dance for a festival but it doesn't have some random storyline which appears to be what is required although when you look at the All England definition of National it doesn't say it needs to be a character dance so I really can't fathom it out. I would far rather an adjudicator said "I am sorry but I am not familiar with this style and therefore have just gone with the performance I enjoyed the most". Interestingly they have done this dance at some of the more American style competitions and it has gone down quite well. festivals seem to be rather different. 2 out of 3 have involved incorrect corrections being given! The other one plainly wasn't familiar with it either but at least was careful about what they said and commented how difficult it was.

 

Unfortunately I had really liked the adjudicator until this. It is plainly purely a a demonstration that adjudicators need to be made more familiar with some areas.

 

At the end of the day as others have said it is entirely down to personal opinion unfortunately. I agree there could perhaps be some slightly more obvious marking criteria but then I think festivals would last weeks just for adjudication but really there could do with being technique, performance, idea (character), authenticity (national) etc but with the number of entries that wouldn't be possible in practice.

 

At least at our festival I felt there was a nice atmosphere behind the scenes which for me is probably the important thing but it was only our local one not All England regionals and I would imagine they are far more competitive. 

[richieN]

My DD is about to go into vocational training, so this is her only regional and national finals she will attend.BBut I would like to see the following changes:

 

Transparent scoring for all competitors.

Stage to be swept between each session.

Entering and exiting auditorium to be banned mid session.

Judges to be seated closer to the stage.

 

 

[Mrs Brown]

1 minute ago, richieN said:

My DD is about to go into vocational training, so this is her only regional and national finals she will attend.BBut I would like to see the following changes:

 

Transparent scoring for all competitors.

Stage to be swept between each session.

Entering and exiting auditorium to be banned mid session.

Judges to be seated closer to the stage.

 

 

don't some of the sessions go on for hours though? perhaps there could be a scheduled "moving point" in longer sections? I agree it must be very distracting for the dancers

[Jen51]

Some qualifiers are perhaps closer to dance schools than others maybe, for us our nearest was an hour away. If this is the same for others it possibly reduces the number of group dances.

Some dance schools are smaller, some new to this so don’t have as many entries. 

Some schools maybe aware of sections that always have less entries so may create dances for those sections- just a thought.

For the sections I watched I witnessed some beautiful and strong dancing and did agree on the whole with placings.

Good luck to those who did make finals, i hear the southern regionals were very good too.

Sorry to those who are disappointed too, my experience of adjudication is always like this. I was just proud my dc did their best. Dance has got to be one is the hardest things to judge, unlike other sports where it’s down to clear goals etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richieN]

@Mrs Brown

Yes, some very long sections - particularly C modern, which was HUGE!. You're right, a break is necessary.

There were times when a popular dancer might have 10-15 people coming in 2 dances before they're due on stage, then all trooping out immediately after the dance is finished. Very off-putting for the children dancing before and after.

There is generally an eroding of the standards of behaviour in theatre. People messing with phones, taking photos/video and talking quite loudly. My DD says she blocks it all out, but it might be harder for other children. I find it hilarious that many people can't walk in and sit down without talking. 

I did find the general atmosphere to be much more calm compared to normal local festivals. I think it's because when you get to this level, everyone knows how to prepare and just gets on with it.

Edited June 1, 2019 by richieN

[Mrs Brown]

I always think it is a little insulting for so many to leave just before someone dances, I do understand why as there are numerous bored dads at festivals usually but it must be hard if you are the next dancer. Our local festival seemed to have pretty good behaviour from the audience, lots of good applause even from random people who didn't know the children which I thought was nice although I will never understand why people can't take their rubbish away with them. I was horrified how many things were just left on the floor under the chairs. Especially given it is nearly always staffed purely by volunteers.

[Dance44]

2 hours ago, Jen51 said:

Some qualifiers are perhaps closer to dance schools than others maybe, for us our nearest was an hour away. If this is the same for others it possibly reduces the number of group dances.

Some dance schools are smaller, some new to this so don’t have as many entries. 

Some schools maybe aware of sections that always have less entries so may create dances for those sections- just a thought.

For the sections I watched I witnessed some beautiful and strong dancing and did agree on the whole with placings.

Good luck to those who did make finals, i hear the southern regionals were very good too.

Sorry to those who are disappointed too, my experience of adjudication is always like this. I was just proud my dc did their best. Dance has got to be one is the hardest things to judge, unlike other sports where it’s down to clear goals etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

Fundamentally any organisation that can only attract three dance schools to enter more than one or two children in a area as big as NM is facing a problem.

If All England wants to be taken seriously it has to address the erratic and poor adjudication in styles of dance where  through no fault of their own the adjudicators knowledge is not sufficient.

Your points about distance, size of schools etc are plainly not relevant. We compete against other schools who travel further in those local comps than they would have needed too to compete in the Regionals. Because of previous experiences they just can't be bothered and advised us the same. The same advice I'm now passing onto others.

[SissonneDoublee]

8 minutes ago, Dance44 said:

Fundamentally any organisation that can only attract three dance schools to enter more than one or two children in a area as big as NM is facing a problem.

If All England wants to be taken seriously it has to address the erratic and poor adjudication in styles of dance where  through no fault of their own the adjudicators knowledge is not sufficient.

Your points about distance, size of schools etc are plainly not relevant. We compete against other schools who travel further in those local comps than they would have needed too to compete in the Regionals. Because of previous experiences they just can't be bothered and advised us the same. The same advice I'm now passing onto others.

When awarding qualifying marks, the festival adjudicators don’t have knowledge of which school a dancer attends. Some schools have an exceptional track record at qualifying festivals, but this is likely to be linked to the choreographer’s ability to produce winning dances and the quality of training received. The dancers’ own expectations will almost certainly be higher in these schools, which may well add to their performance. Some schools attend a much higher number of qualifying festivals, which will also increase their presence at the finals.

By the time you reach regional finals, the balance of schools represented is the result of success at earlier festivals, rather than any bias.

Our experience of regional finals has only ever been positive. DD felt very lucky to be there, and loved the chance to compete at a higher level.

[Jen51]

55 minutes ago, Dance44 said:

Fundamentally any organisation that can only attract three dance schools to enter more than one or two children in a area as big as NM is facing a problem.

If All England wants to be taken seriously it has to address the erratic and poor adjudication in styles of dance where  through no fault of their own the adjudicators knowledge is not sufficient.

Your points about distance, size of schools etc are plainly not relevant. We compete against other schools who travel further in those local comps than they would have needed too to compete in the Regionals. Because of previous experiences they just can't be bothered and advised us the same. The same advice I'm now passing onto others.

Well I disagree! You cannot say my points are not relevant.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Jen51