BalletBoysDad

Great to hear that he enjoyed it 😀

Yes, getting information out of my DS can be either easy, or like getting blood out of a stone (and every possibility in between) 😂 Between those openly sharing results on this forum and those that share things on social media, I did get the very fuzzy impression that there were a modest number of Y5s offered places, maybe more to Y6s, and as you mention, you could still be in Y7 and fit into this age bracket. If your DS’s recollection is one ‘bubble’, I wonder how many bubbles there were that week. Purely idle curiosity.

Did your DS just do the spring intensive? I saw RBS Instagram stories showing Spring Intensive classes and the groups appeared relatively big. It was hard to see if they were split between girls and boys in any approximate way.

I’d be fascinated to know if there is an even split between girls and boys in week 1 and week 3, and if within that there’s a roughly even split between children in school academic Year 5 and Year 6. Week one: 19-23 July for girls and boys aged 10-11 years Week three: 2-6 August for girls and boys aged 10-11 years Or if it’s all just very random.... and unpredictable.

Congratulations to your DS, that’s wonderful news! Did they give you the April 25th summer term start date?

Your comment on ‘practice makes permanent’ has definitely stuck in my mind, and it’s something I’m trying to navigate through the ‘post lockdown’ path.... As a consequence of our relocation during the first lockdown, we found ourselves in the ‘flip’ situation of having zero ballet tuition, all ‘left behind’ us in London. Rather than having good local tuition supplemented by associate programmes, my DS was successful at associate programmes and we struggled to find good local tuition. We found a great zoom teacher, but post-lockdown, that relationship would need to stay on zoom to continue. It works very well ‘in the mix’ right now, but of course I’m mindful to try and make good decisions in these very young formative years.

As much as I hate a zoom meeting, and much prefer talking in 'real life', I'll be very interested to see if the concept of 'zoom' tuition stays with us some time, grows in popularity, or fades away over time... What it has been able to do is bring students/teachers closer together who would otherwise have been separated by distance. It might have bought great quality tuition to someone in a remote area etc, and might go some way to dispel that myth (if there is indeed one) that children close to major centres have more opportunity than those who don't. For my own DS, I noted that some private zoom classes that were MUCH cheaper than a live lesson in a studio yielded some really positive results. I though 'zoom-fatigue' might set in but was pleasantly surprised that my DS knew it was that or nothing, and he didn't want to do nothing. Being in the home environment, my DS felt very relaxed, and really absorbed what he was hearing. There was no fear or anxiety in making a mistake amongst a group. I'm not saying I would want him to do zoom-only. He/we cannot wait for him to get back to studio life, make friends, see his tutor in front of him rather than behind a screen. But I do think zoom teaching has its benefits for some children, and I'm intrigued as to it's future....

I’ve tried to apply that to myself. Even my partner says ‘are you still looking at that ballet forum?’ 😂

Yes, me too. I went from a kind of ‘under-use’ to ‘over-use’ and still haven’t found the happy medium. But I think I it’s definitely true what you said, that there was a desperate scramble to find info, activity etc, and for some people to show that they were still dancing. With people’s income drying up, it’s no surprise some tutors/schools sought income via zoom and social media, and subsequently no surprise that children/parents showed their participation in classes given ‘real life’ had came to a crashing halt.

Another gut-feeling is that the Covid pandemic and lockdowns just vastly accelerated what was already happening. People talked about decline of high street shopping etc, then lockdown just accelerated that decline, as we became reliant on it much more rapidly. Brands and organizations (including dance schools and studios) might have had some social media presence, but lockdown accelerated their (inevitable) reliance on that, and that quickly became one of their primary means of communication, so subsequently our primary means of receiving information. The fact that many organizations have more up-to-date information available on their social media accounts only goes to demonstrate how effective it is for 'quick communication', given websites can be costly and cumbersome to update. The sudden move to online learning, and schools and tutors promoting that through social media, by consequence, accelerated the use of students/parents showing their participation. Maybe this shift wouldn't have felt so radical and uncomfortable had it happened a little more 'naturally/organically' that the seismic-shift that Covid created. I don't know about other parents, but lockdown bought a real angst about my sons progression, not just in education, but also socially (in terms of friendships) and in his dance journey. I went on my own personal scramble for information, zoom courses, tutors, free classes etc... anything to not bring it all to a screeching and maybe irreversible halt!

My personal thoughts on social media is that its important to follow only what you want to follow, and not get caught up in the things you don't. Its so easy to 'take the bait' and be provoked by things we don't want to see and hear. The luxury of Instagram is that we can follow what we like to follow, and unfollow/block/mute/ignore the things we don't want to. Like newspapers, we don't read all of them, we probably find the ones that reflect our personal values. I know perfectly well the ones not to read as they will do nothing but enrage me. At the same time, I have to respect that someone else likes them, enjoys that content, and we need to respectfully coexist. 7/10 things that I learn come from social media, especially applications opportunities, dates, looming deadlines. As a source of information its a goldmine. I think we need to be mindful of our own interpretation of 'misinformation'. I personally think one of the most misleading things floating around the world of dance are the posts showing extreme levels of flexibility. It could easily make a child, or more specifically their parents think that this is 'essential' for this ballet journey. I see courses advertised 'promising results in 2 weeks' that are probably dangerous to young bodies. Good for the kids that have this, good for kids/parents that want to pursue this, and good for their freedom to post it. In my own view its clearly not a requirement of classical ballet, so again, I choose to ignore/mute/unfollow that kind of content. I'm powerless to stop it being produced. I also agree with comments about the 'wow' images. They are a microsecond of a moment in time. They might show a child mid air, but they don't show the quality of the launch, balance and landing. I'm not saying that that image is for me to 'judge' but I certainly wouldn't use it as any reference for comparison. My own DS's dance journey is his alone and I frequently remind him that he can only be the best version of himself, not of someone else. Our own 'wow images' are maybe a source of personal pride, but we wouldn't expect others to view them as anything other than an image of someone else's child. I know for my own DS, ballet is one of the few area where he gets to shine and feel good about himself. So I think we need to be mindful that everyone has a backstory and we will never know what it is. If we post an image of a 'success' it mostly so friends and family around the world get to see and hear about it. Its certainly not posted for someone to make a 'comparison' of any sort, or to 'become known', neither of which would have any bearing on his dance journey, which will purely be down to his own hard work and dedication. So referring back to the title of this topic, I choose to follow what I think it 'good', avoid what I think is 'bad' and block/unfollow/mute what I perceive to be 'ugly'.

I totally agree with this. Potential is a very elastic word. The goalposts of the word ‘potential’ have almost definitely shifted. The RBS are presumably going to take successful WL applicants on an incredible and demanding educational journey. Like you say, in the past, body type and facility might be enough to show potential. (I personally had this conversation with a famous choreographer who joined WL at 16 with no previous classical ballet experience, and went on to become a principal, then artistic director of a major company). That would be almost unheard of now! He said that himself. Now you’ll see young boys with ‘body potential/facility’ AND some very solid skills that demonstrate additional potential. You’ll see that in a Y5 class, and these boys will be trying for vocational places at the end of this year. There will always be that boy with limited experience who shines, but there will equally be many boys who’s ‘potential’ is already highly polished.

Looking back on this topic and even some of my own comments with fresh eyes today, I think it’s important that people respect the choices made by different parents, and not jump to conclusions (myself included). If I said that my DS did three associate programmes, that could easily be presumed that they are ‘pushed’ and over trained. However, given 2 of those programmes are fortnightly, have short terms and fall on alternate weekends, in reality they make up the same amount combined as Elmhurst YDs. So even though it might seem they do way too much, it’s actually a manageable amount. And their weekly local class is only 45 minutes. With many things in social media and even sometimes in this forum, the reality can be rather different to the quick fleeting presumption. I do use and let my son use social media, monitored safely. It has bought us in contact with a number of other people on the same journey and provided a wealth of encouragement and support. Some of those people have large followings, some have small followings, some we have met don’t use it at all, some do many classes, some do fewer, but their dedication to their child's journey and progress is indisputable. Moving forwards, I’m going to be extra mindful that I’m not appearing to judge anyone, as we are all on the same journey and the reality is often rather different to quick presumption.

You’ve just triggered a thought.... you mentioned this trickiest of audition years and lockdown haircuts etc. Prior to lockdown, the thought of zoom lessons and virtual intensives didn’t actually exist. We took our children to lessons in a real studio. Lockdown, and the break in ‘really life training’ opened you all sorts of zoom and digital training options, often advertised on Instagram. Private tuition suddenly became possible on zoom, often at a much cheaper rate than ‘real life’ private tuition with the added cost of studio hire. Maybe lockdown has encouraged people to spend more time on social media and amplified rather quickly its perceived role or influence in children’s training... or has formed some kind of ‘glossy visual path to success’ that isn’t completely necessary.

I do always try and bare in mind, whether in a viewing class or if looking at social media, its very hard to pinpoint an age or 'moment' in someone's development, so I remind myself not to make any hasty comparison. I remember seeing a boy on one of my son's tutors Instagram post doing all sorts of impressive things. I asked the tutor if they were the same age as I though 'wow, is this the competition?', and was told they were the same age. But I later found out the boy is a year and a half older. My son is in Y5 and that boy will shortly be starting Y7 vocational school. That was my first positive experience of learning not to make comparisons.

Absolutely! Social media has been a great way to learn about some of the paths towards an education in dance. I wouldn't have known about half of these schools ands schemes if it wasn't for social media and websites such as this forum. I've just been mindful not to let myself think that anything shown or discussed is the ONLY path towards dance. Its good to see what children are good at on social media, my son enjoys looking too. But people are often not sharing what they struggle at, and that might be the area that another child really shows potential with at audition etc.

I often say to my DS, even if he had 300 followers, he doesn't know 300 people! 3000 followers won't make his turnout any better than 3, or 30.... And no where on an application form does it ask for what brands you are an ambassador for. I like and loathe social media; its bought many opportunities to my attention, but I am quite confident (and hopeful) it plays no part in selection at audition. I'm with you, they are still only looking at potential.

I noticed this too, and had a number of theories on this. Having a son, I naturally pay attention to the journey of other boys a year or two ahead. Were all treading a similar path in some way..... The vocational students for Y7 did appear to predominantly come from the South/South East, or have access to classes in the South/South East. Someone did remind me that of all the JA centres, London offer a boy-only class which might account for some of that. And being a larger centre with more students too.... There is also a higher concentration of known schools around the M25 that have strong success getting students into WL. I think I could put names into an envelope today for next year, and get 70% right!

I do agree, and feel grateful that my DS didn't have to do any filming for a vocational audition. Its a cost and expense that seems inconsistent. I think this year has exposed an unbalance, and like you say pre/post lockdown, hopefully all auditions will be on an equal footing. I did make a home video for an intensive, and I also took some photos at home for White Lodge summer intensives. They were very amateur and the best we could do. But (and returning to potential) they did what they needed to do, and didnt cost me a penny to make. His ballet teacher could not have opened her ballet studio to film/photo there as she was religiously following government restrictions. Its quite clear that some images/videos on social media were taken in a studio, outside of the home environment. People will do whatever they feel necessary to do, and I respect their decision to pursue whatever they feel necessary. But I do hope that moving forwards, we wont be in a situation where people have to fork out money in the hope of making something 'more polished' than someone else.

I'm fascinated and intrigued by this topic, and have no issues offering myself up as a parent that could easily be accused of 'overtraining' a young dancer, and posting too much publicly etc. In fact, I totally get the point of the opening topic, and even found myself thinking and agreeing with many aspects of that during my own DS's ballet journey. But I often think that the 'reality' of a situation sometimes exists halfway between 2 extremes. As someone said, Instagram is a moment in time or a version of reality, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Even though I post about my own DS, (and will admit its more about his successes than failures), I am often concerned to see how social media suggests the 'right path'. My first worry is seeing so much dangerous overstretching. Its littered amongst every post. But that level of stretch is not required for any of the vocational schools, or any of the associate programmes, so is very misleading. Major associate schools (Tring CBA, JA, Elmhurst YD) actively and aggressively discourage it. So no one should think that this is a prerequisite for those schemes. Zoom has fortunately allowed me to see a lot more class content than dropping my son off at the studio and waiting outside. I'm pleasantly surprised that its all rather simple and age-appropriate. What a child can demonstrate on Instagram is not necessarily what they are being asked to do in class, and presumably not what they will be asked to do at audition, so it might look intimidating, but in reality what they are learning is very simple. Fundamental foundations. Coming from the Midlands, I put my son into a ballet class at the age of 5 as he had an interest in dance and movement. It was purely for pleasure. When we moved to London, I couldn't help but feel that there was more of a class-element to ballet (not a dig at London, just an observation of the schools we found ourselves in), or at least, a much more competitive vibe to it all. We moved ballet schools a number of times (and gave up some 'good names') to arrive at the best student-teacher dynamic. In my personal opinion, the relationship with the tutor far exceed how 'known' they might be. The number of ballet classes my DS did snowballed out of loneliness and being bullied at school. It was one of the few places he could be free from bullying and feel good about himself. So to some people, that appeared to be over-training, but to me it was to put him in a happy space away from the horror of his school day, and somewhere he could feel respected. But it took time to arrive at the right number of lessons, and changing classes/school's until we found great nurturing relationships. At the same time, I think its worth noting that many associate programmes are teaching the same thing. So children who do multiple programmes might be accessing MORE frequency of training, but they're not accessing EXTRA knowledge that no one else can. Although my son does a number of programmes, I am mindful that they are all similar, as there is no point doing training at one centre that counter-acts or contradicts training at another. As someone in another topic said, 'practice makes permanent' in ballet, so quality is definitely more important that quantity. I will agree, I have found it quite easy to 'guess' the children who get places. But equally, a lot of the places go to children who's parents don't post or care for social media, and those children/parents will have taken a very private path that may or may not have been very different. 'Potential' is a word I frequently hear from teachers. I still like to believe there's value and recognition in that. When it comes to audition day, I'm hopeful the assessors will be looking at the potential in the room rather than the number of Instagram followers.

Yes, @Balletdreamsgoon I think its only London that has a dedicated boys class. All other centres appear to be mixed (My DS is in the same class as @BellaF's DS)

Huge congratulations to all the 'yesses', waitlist and everyone who made it to finals full stop. I cant believe that, as someone who doesn't yet have a child old enough to be even applying for vocational school/WL etc, I have checked into this page daily, with the same level of angst and anticipation of waiting for general election or Eurovision results! Everyone's nerves must be made of steel!

Oh that's such a shame! I personally think Tring is such a lovely programme, I would hate to have to make a decision between Tring CBA and another associate programme. Fortunately (for us) Birmingham JA's remain on a Saturday, so it doesn't pose any conflict. Though for children about to make that move into Y7 vocational school, I'm sure missing one final term isn't such a big issue.

Thank you! And best of luck to your DS!!!!

Thank you for that valuable and insightful information! Really appreciated. I remember an ENB teacher who was at WL passingly saying something to me across similar lines; something like boys have to demonstrate a flexibility potential that they can grow and train into, but girls have a shorter, tougher and earlier 'window' to reach and retain the prerequisite flexibility. My DS has good natural turnout, and good centre splits, but as you mention with some of the Y8/9 boys, his side splits are 'ok' but plenty of room (and now it appears time) to work on those. One of his tutors who has had a few boys get into WL was very unconcerned about side splits at this moment in time. Then I was unconcerned, until the discussion about hypermobility turned up! It was the time aspect that concerned me the most, as I'm only starting to see exercises to enhance flexibility starting to be formally introduced into JA/associate programmes. And in discussions for WL finals, I hear a lot more discussion about flexibility/hypermobility etc, so its fascinating to know what it all means.