BalletBoysDad

I feel like I’m slightly gate crashing this discussion, as this kind of thing won’t be on the radar for us until at least the end of this year, and into 2022. But it’s always really interesting and insightful to know what the experience and journey is for those an academic year ahead. I feel nervous for all of you involved, I dread to think what state I would be in, should we find ourselves in this situation.

My DS’s disappointments can normally be resolved with an extra hour on YouTube or Roblox. Sadly the same doesn’t go for me. 😂

Do you have a guesstimate of when you might get results? Should that tie in roughly with results from those who may have applied to Elmhurst too? Feels like a long wait given Tring and Hammond etc feel like they were announced an age ago.

Ah, I thought I’d read or dreamt 16 somewhere but yes, it’s probably 12.

Ah yes, I’d probably made that number up of 16, or thought I read it somewhere. I know they prefer the students to board, but I makes me wonder if they stick rigidly to numbers according to boarding spaces, or if they have a touch of flexibility with those who might live in or around London and would prefer a day place (no idea if that actually exists). That’s why i also asked if it was presumed most came through JAs as is have thought there would be plenty of overseas applicants too. I do appreciate that a ‘nearly’ can be worse than a ‘no’, I’m sure we’ve all had that play out somehow and somewhere in our own non-dancing lives and careers too. Though I’m grateful that my DS has a lot more resilience than I do in bouncing back.

Reading this with fascination.... Boys at finals do at least have that assurance that they’re ‘very close’ to a successful outcome (if that’s the correct choice of words?) given that there are maybe 16 places on offer? They’ll have done exceptionally well to have come this far! I wonder if all boys who got through to finals did come through the JA route?

Thank you, yes he has really enjoyed the classes so far. I don't feel he's had many as he only started in January, and its every fortnight. But I find the teacher exceptionally kind, and it seems like they have mastered the art of offering great tuition and a nice experience via zoom. I don't feel he has 'missed out' by doing it on zoom, but like all classes I'm sure it will be best in the studio.

As a result of the roadmap out of lockdown, there was an email to say JA classes will hopefully return to live studio classes at the end of April. WL final students are also going to be auditioned in person, so its a probable theory that they will assess preliminary videos and take a selection through to live auditions. The thought of 'JA finals' sounds a bit harsh and extreme maybe? But equally, they might identify great students immediately at video stage. Who knows, but maybe they have more options this time round, as hopefully we appear to be heading towards a return to studios.

Oh that’s wonderful news, congratulations! 4 hours a day (give or take breaks) over 2 weeks is 40 hours of ballet. That’s like a years programme in a fortnight haha. My DS really enjoyed doing one last year. It really motivated and prepared him for the auditions shortly after, and also allowed him to shake off the disappointments of the previous year. And dare I say, it was nice to be dancing amongst new faces. Really hope your DD enjoys and thrives with the experience.

Right from the beginning, that was my thought, that if Y4s rise to Y5, and Y5 rise to Y6, there would never in theory be new places. But they said they expand the groups each year to accommodate more. This year they expanded them by a far smaller number that they normally would. I can only speak for the number of boys, but I believe there are only 3 Y5 boys in Birmingham right now, who will rise to Y6 in September. That will make space for some more Y4 and Y5 boys, and there should be even more as that number is low. I also believe someone once said Birmingham had 6 Y6 boys, so there’s space for at least 3 more boys if they were to go back towards older levels of student numbers, maybe even a couple more.

Last year (pre-covid) I applied for Junior summer programmes with Joffrey Ballet in Chicago and Ballet Austin, as at the time my son was 8 (turning 9 in July) and after quite a lot of research they seemed to be one of the few ‘bigger city’ companies that did a junior summer programme for younger dancers that was more than a couple of hours each day. Some of the major schools seemed to start from age 10 plus... This year, my son is 9 and turns 10 in July, so that just scrapes the age threshold for ABT virtual summer programme. I applied again to Joffrey, but it’s an in-person 2 or 3 week programme and the complications of travel make that seem a slim reality (if successful, as still awaiting their results).

Do let us know how she gets on, wishing lots of luck! Going back to the topic of JAs, we applied to some USA programmes last year (after a SWL place for JAs that never materialised) purely because I wanted to remind my son that there's an entire planet/dance world out there, and not to get hung up purely on a handful of schools in the UK that he may or may not get into now or in the future.

My son did the audition on Sunday 7th Feb, and the results came on Friday 12th, from the email address summerintensive@abt.org The ABT programme seems to present good value for money considering its for 2 weeks, and quality of training seems really high. My son got into the Joffrey in-person programme last July, whichwas obviously cancelled and went onto zoom. Although he was disappointed not to go 'in person', I was amazed how fun and rewarding the virtual programme could be. Good luck to your DD!

My DS is doing the ABT online intensive too. I was surprised how full on the audition was! Though it’s great that they got to do it on zoom as close to ‘real life’ as possible. He did similar times in the evening with Joffrey last year, but worked through the tiredness as he was having so much fun. Great that they have this to look forwards too.

The torment of having a ‘what if’ is probably worse than the satisfaction of knowing, however favourable or disappointing the outcome.

Beautiful put @Pups_mum 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Ballet seems a very emotional journey, and like you said ‘very opaque’. That first ‘no, not yet, SWL’ leaves a lot of unanswered questions that we can torment ourselves trying to answer but will never know, as the decision doesn’t belong to the student or parent.

Alas, let's hope there's a way out of zoom in the not too distant future.

May I ask, purely out of interest, how big the groups are in the JEP class? They seem to run the same frequency and last roughly the same amount of time as the JA class, so it must be a great experience.

Yes, everyone needs to apply and audition the same way. I seem to remember the first time we applied (Y4) the application asked if you've applied before. But when we applied for Y5, there was no mention of previous applications.

These threads are full of people's experiences who got SWL one year, then a 'no' the next. And a 'no' one year, followed by a 'yes' the next, and every eventuality in between. Where there is courage to apply or reapply, there must definitely be a chance in there somewhere, as you say Although the JEP is new, and its clearly a good thing for those who got offered that, I am sure people will see a very mixed set of results, like always if children are assessed on the audition alone.

The new Birmingham Y5 group is my DS and (I think) 5 girls. I don't know how fewer that is than previous years, but the teacher did say it was much smaller than usual. The engagement programme appears to be the same frequency of classes and almost the same running time, so I agree it still gives greater opportunity, even if the numbers appear small.

They did take new JAs last year, but the general situation seemed to be fewer than normal, as class sizes need to be restricted to allow social distancing for however long social distancing might be required when the studios are allowed to be open (Its all naturally on zoom right now). So there are places, apparently in all year groups. I do know a boy who was given a Y4 place in London, as he dances with my DS on another programme. But there were definitely fewer places given out than 'normal' years. In the past, if you didn't get a 'yes' you might get a SWL (short waiting list) in case anyone didn't take their place. This year, SWL places were given a place on a Junior Engagement Programme, presumably to keep a larger number of student close to the JA programme, given that relatively few new places were available.

Your post really resonated with me and I mulled over a million possible meaningful replies, and I couldn’t arrive at any. But I think you hit the nail on the head with feeling beaten by the system. And I’m quite sure many parents feel like that about many different activities, subjects and sports etc. There’s no denying that each centre has a certain annual capacity, and social distancing restrictions unique to each of those centres mean that even when they are open, class sizes are vastly restricted, making it a much harder ‘system’ to get into. Although Birmingham is technically the 2nd largest centre, their Y5 intake was incredibly small. I don’t know what Y4 and Y6 was like. But even still, those Y4 and Y5 classes are now fortnightly rather than weekly, and half their usual running time. Only Y6 classes run weekly. So the children who are ‘in’ are still experiencing less of the programme than their past or potentially future peers. I think I’ve personally arrived at thinking the most important thing any young dancer can have right now is a tutor who champions them, inspires them and drives them on. And that most likely might be someone closer to home than someone who teaches on one of the ‘big name’ associate programmes. As lovely as some of these programmes are, and of course the quality of teaching is very high, there are also plenty of wonderful teachers who can teach the same or similar in a much more personal way. I’ve also arrived at thinking being taught and being mentored and inspired are two different things, and it’s mentorship and inspiration that will help children reclaim all this lost opportunity.

That’s where I was confused about photos. I’m presuming they use them as a part of selection, even if they say it’s just for identifying applicants, as for Summer Intensives, they’re selecting from photos alone (so I believe). My DS only started as a JA in January too, and I asked if it was worth applying to summer intensives as the new children will hardly be known compared to the existing JAs. They replied to say that the decision will be made on photos and physical attributes alone. Like you say, when there’s a choice between two students, it probably comes down to tiny details, and photos might inevitably form part of this decision making.

JA applicants would have submitted photos in February/March 2020, so if people used the same ones again this year, those photos would be a year old. Which is surely too much time between photos as there’s been a year of physical development. I’m sure a set of photos from a couple of months ago is less of a problem than a year ago.