ParentTaxi

For shows, the school + experienced CRB [have forgotten the new name]-checked mums do makeup on the younger ones, and the older ones do their own / each others. However, for festivals, before each festival, an experienced mum of an older child or one who has been doing festivals for ages always runs a session in which any new mums-and-children can come along and learn what to do and what to get, have a try on their own child etc - both for makeup and hair styles. For the older ones, if it happens that lots of new students are joining festival groups who are of an age to at least start doing their own hair and makeup, there might well be a similar session but for the students themselves, led by one of the 18 year olds or someone who has recently left. I have never worn makeup, and am highly allergic myself to much that is on the market, so when DD was small I had to buy brands that I wouldn't react to when applying, as ending up with grotesquely-swollen hands in mid-festival isn't very helpful. She's been doing her own for years now - she's 13 - and so has a slightly wider choice these days. Rimmel is good 'stage' makeup, IME - highly pigmented but goes on smoothly for quick changes after e.g. removal of facepaint.

I absolutely agree that the difficulty - as a very L-plated dance mum - is in distinguishing between 'normal' child / teacher mismatch and the kind of abuse that has been described here. As even a mismatch - which can occur with someone who might be the 'best' teacher for another child, just not for ours - can reduce progress in and love of dance, we probably ought as parents to set our 'threshold for moving teachers' lower (to 'there's a mismatch, let's find something better for our child'), rather than saying that mismatch is OK and potentially missing the fact that the mismatch may in fact be much more abusive.

I am not, in any way, saying that any of the teachers cited on this thread should be in any way excused their behaviour (just realised that my post could be read in that way). I suppose what I mean is that a teacher may not be the best possible teacher for a child even when their behaviour and approach is absolutely appropriate, just not optimal for that child. Over the years that DD has been at her dance school, some children have left for other schools citing the approach of one or more teachers as a reason, and some have arrived from other schools, equally citing the approach of the teachers there as a reason to move the way that they did.

I also think that, as a parent, it can be hard to judge a) exactly what a child means by 'Miss X was nasty to me' and what the experience is for your particular child and how they will respond to a specific teacher's 'style'. I didn't teach dance, but i am a teacher, and I have in the past had (very occasional) comments / complains from parents about 'my child is scared of you', 'my child thinks you dislike her', 'you shouted at my child'. Of course, if a child states any of these things, it is taken really seriously and we do a full investigation. In all cases that have involved me, the child's perception of what was happening was not what an adult might have perceived (for example, the child who thought i disliked them was a very able writer, but only in specific styles - fantasy story, for example - and so when I was teaching non-fiction, the child received many more corrections / suggestions for improvement than they might have been used to. The child interpreted that as dislike) but we still always put in a plan of action to ensure that that perception was addressed. Equally, in a class of children, some may 'like' me more than others 'like' me - some may find me too strict, others too lenient, some too loud, some too quiet, some perceive me as friendly and involved, others as more distant. This may be based on specific individual incidents that involve that child, but most will simply be on daily classroom interactions, and individual children's likes and dislikes, character and preferences. I suspect this may also be true of a class of dancers and their dance teachers - some students may thrive under a particular teacher while others may just not find their style and approach congenial. So as parents, although the grossest of transgressions by a teacher may - and should - be absolutely obvious and something we should be aware of, it may be that the teacher one child thrives under may not suit another, just because of specific personal attributes and approaches. DD thrives under teachers who have a step by step approach and explain clearly, followed by sufficient time for her own rehearsal and repetition of a movement or sequence. She finds frequent praise a distraction. A friend of hers prefers a much faster pace but needs more frequent praise to remain motivated and engaged.

I would also say that websites can be out of date ... very glossy website still up for college gone into administration, for example.

Off topic, but relevant to both young scientists and Tim Hunt: as a PhD student i worked in a lab next to Tim's and collaborated extensively because my PhD overlapped the work of the two labs. He was actually one of the most supportive, gender-blind, encouraging to young female scientists group leaders in the department - much, much more so than my own (female) group leader.

DD is 13, at a good non-vocational school. For several years she has done 10-12 hours per week: - 3-3.5 hours of non-pointe ballet - 45 minutes pointe - 1 - 1.5 hours body conditioning / stretching - 1 hour each modern theatre + tap - 0.5 hour private lesson have been the absolute constants. 'Extras' include singing, an extra lesson each week for exam coaching in 1 or more of the disciplines (so for example she took Intermediate Modern and the same grade in Tap last term, which meant 2 extra hours), and 2x 'festival performing groups' sessions, because she dances in 2 age groups. She's good- Distinctions in exams, is at a good level for her age, does ISTD Ballet Awards and Janet Cram, wins stuff at festivals every now and again - but her destination in dancing, if she continues, is along the Laine / Birds / Performers / LSC type line not RBS. To balance this, she maintains the highest possible effort grades in school, where she excels in academic subjects. She does some additional work in Art for school. She plays in school sports teams year-round (netball and hockey in the winter, rounders in the summer). She has a good group of friends at dance, and a separate group of school friends - mostly swimmers or gymnasts, who understand her lack of availability. I think that if DD went up to 20 hours, yes, there is a possibility that she might get 'better' at dance, or do 'more styles' - but she wouldn't be able to maintain balance with the rest of her life, and specifically her school work would suffer..

Don't just focus on the dance techniques that she is learning, or the future that she may have in dance - also value, and be amazed by, all the other things she will learn along the way. Value the confidence it gives her, her ability to perform, her concentration, her posture, her work ethic, her ability to keep a smile on her face and keep going even when things get tough. What has kept us going with DD's dancing is not the next grade, the next course, the next competition, whether or not she will become a dancer - but all the wonderful things, and all the great friends, that dancing has given her. I feel that we realised this rather later than we should have done, and so would emphasise it to anyone starting out on this path...

Meant to say - we do 3 festivals a year, those which the dance school enters dance school groups for, plus in some years the ISTD competitions (Ballet Awards, this year the Janet Cram). We wouldn't do any more.

If there are a number of children doing festivals at the same dance school, it is worth getting your heads together - perhaps with the dance school principal - to look at ways to reduce the cost of costumes. Over the years that DD has been doing festivals, our dance school has become much more organised about this. It used to be much more that individuals bought costumes, some of which were made by a mum from the dance school (though group costumes have always been hired out by the school). Over time, it has moved to being that the school keeps a wardrobe from which the vast majority of the costumes are hired (£5 per solo / duet costume, less for group costumes, a little more for tutus). The same mum now makes costumes as a part-time job, and this is paid for by specially-made new costumes being hired out at a higher rate for a couple of festivals than the 'recycled' ones. Those of us who also make the occasional costume, or have bought them in the past, can 'sell in' those costumes to the wardrobe once our own DC have grown out of them, and they are then hired out in the normal way to other DC - sometimes for the same dance if that is re-used, or for another dance fr which it is suitable. Yes, some costumes are still made outside this system - either by mums or by a local tutu-maker - but because these tend to be 'sold in' once finished with, the number of these is reducing. DD currently does a LOT of dances per festival - solos, duets, trios, group dances in two age groups - but the above process keeps our costume bill down to something very manageable. I would say the total 'direct' cost of a festival for us in terms of entries + costumes + me going in for 4 days would be around £130 for her doing over 20 dances.

Anyone know when Bath results are out? Not for DD, but want to know when to ask (but not pester!) someone I know!

{Remarks, completely off-topic, that my absolutely favourite great-aunt was Auntie Norah, so that username has brought back many fond memories!]

That's really good to hear. As a non-dance person, I do sometimes wonder whether our accidental stumbling on an ISTD for everything school (albeit a very good one) has been a disadvantage to DD compared with a RAD training in ballet.

ISTD has unset work as part of the exam from Grade 1 onwards, based on the steps for that grade and any below - so if you happen to have an ISTD-taking school locally, then classes there might very largely consist of work set by the teacher. If I happen to listen through the door to DD's Intermediate or Adv 1 ballet classes, for example, they might practise 1 or 2 of the set exercises then do a wide variety of unset enchainements, then finish with another couple of the set exercises. The steps might not be exactly identical to the RAD syllabus, but the process of being given a string of steps followed by having to dance it would at least give an opportunity to practice?

Sorry, late coming back to the thread: So you have 2 dancing daughters, one of whom you have asked advice about before (and for whom you have a good solution in the other 'new' dance school) and this one who is younger but has stayed at the old dance school? From what i recall, they must both be in very similar classes in the current dance school - Grade 2 or thereabouts? Is there a reason for that? The comp. team proposal is for your younger DD, and would mean a transfer for her from your original dance school to a 3rd dance school, this comp one? Tbh, although I know lots of mums with 2 dancing DCs, i don't know anyone who has 2 at two DIFFERENT time-consuming non-vocational dance schools. The best option might be to sit down as a family with all 3 dance school possibilities in front of you, and all other possible ways of extending high quality dance training (summer schools, associate schemes, full-time vocational in time and work out the best, and most practically feasible, option for you all.

Birthday party Night before Christmas (or Christmas morning) Also seen lots of animal / bird ones

Thinks back to festivals I have seen... Alice in Wonderland (Knave, White rabbit) Fairy tale (Cinderella, Snow White, Little Red Riding Hood, Thumbelina) Beatrix Potter (Jeremy Fisher, Peter Rabbit) Circus, or watching a circus Visiting the seaside School or laundry day(think that might have been the Old Woman who Lived in a Shoe, come to think of it) Will post again if i think of more.

I was under the impression that you had already - about a month ago - identified a school to move to that offered a step up in terms of number of lessons, dropping tap, and that your DD had already had a trial lesson there? Is this the same as the comp. dance school, or a different one? What was the result of that trial lesson?

(I would also worry about the ethics / philosophy of a school that did this - and would wonder why they do not have enough 'home grown' students to fill their competition team. A thinning out of the ranks in mid-teens seems, IME and observation, relatively 'normal', and can leave some schools short of students for their most senior teams, but to need to poach at 9/10 would make me wonder. Are you happy at the current school? What is its local reputation? What are the destinations of its students in terms of vocational schools, associate schemes, dance colleges? I mean, if you know that your current school is very limited in terms of hours, or maybe it only really has younger students, or you already have worries about the quality of training it is providing, that is one thing - especially if the school; from which you have had an approach is known to be excellent in comparison. But if the new and old schools are very similar, why would you move?)

That is REALLY bad manners - to say the least - by the other dance school, and unless you are on bad terms with your current school and were already pondering a move, something that you might want to leave the dance school principals to fight out between themselves. In your position, I would hand over the letter to your current dance teacher and ask their opinion as to how you might proceed. I live in a town with several dance schools of varying quality. There is some movement between them - often between the 'less serious' and 'more serious' at slightly older age groups, where a child wishes to progress further and realises that there are very few other children with such ambitions at their current school, or where there are very few older students. However, such movement is ALWAYS initiated by the student or their parents, never by the receiving dance school, and there is an absolute veto on poaching. 'Non-overlapping' / complementary dance activities - e.g. street dance, Tap Attack, Associate programmes - aren't a problem. But a direct approach to a student from one dance school by another just isn't done, and you need to be VERY open with your current dance school to show that you aren't complicit in this.

Anyone at Janet Cram heats this weekend? (I realise the Scottish one has been and gone). DD is taking part for the first time and is distinctly nervous!

DD (13) and a small group of others from her dance school (mostly 14 year olds) are going this year, for week 1. All flying up together, then flying back down with their dance teacher, who is one of the tutors. Interesting to hear that they group ballet by age - DD and her friends are all currently working towards intermediate, except for the oldest who is working towards advanced 1, so we shall see if that is an issue.

As another possible indication, looking at the ISTD Ballet Awards (open to those who get higher Merits / Distinctions and entered by their ballet teachers): Maximum age for those who have TAKEN Grade 2 = 10 years in the September before the Awards are held in the Autumn term (so if your DD is 11 or12 when she takes Grade 2 in May, she is already 1-2 years older than the maximum) Maximum age for those who have TAKEN Grade 3 = under 12 years in the September before the Awards are held in the Spring term (so if your DD 12 before September, which I seem to remember she will be, she is also too old for the Grade 3 awards that year) While, as others have said, as long as she is familiar with the steps and technique for higher grades, the actual exams taken are not an issue - and good technique but a lower grade is preferable to poor technique at a higher, she is older than the ISTD would consider 'normal' for their 'serious award taking dancers', if that makes sense (though the age limits were tightened this year and did catch quite a lot of schools out, particularly those that move slowly through grades, perhaps due to frequent shows or festival work taking up lots of teaching time or fewer dancers at higher grades).

(Sorry, meant to say about the Tap and Modern - at 13 and in Year 8, she is taking Intermediate Tap and Modern this term. At 11, thinking back, she would probably have been taking around Grade 5-6 in both)

Ballet-girl, I suspect that I have replied to your question on a forum elsewhere - but welcome to this one! I do know the ISTD grades, as DD is taught by one of the ISTD Classical ballet faculty committee members. I think Lisa's question is perhaps the key one - it has taken your DD quite a long time to get to Grade 2, and there can be any number of reasons for this - lack of hours, few opportunities to take exams, lack of peer group to progress faster, a focus on non-syllabus work (though with ISTD having a large element of free work from the beginning, this is perhaps less of a feature of ISTD training), a teacher who is very 'recreationally' focused. If your DD is to progress to vocational school within the next few years, or dance college at 16/18, then the rate at which she progresses will need to increase, perhaps through finding more hours of really high quality dance teaching. DD started ballet skipping round a village hall at 3, and started her current 'serious' non-vocational school when she started Reception at 4. She took Primary Class Test at 5, Primary at 6, Grade 1 at 7 and Grade 2 at 8. When working towards Grade 2 she started doing 2 hours of ballet per week, one hour of Grade 2 and one hour of Grade 3, with an extra 45 minutes or an hour per week one term a year in the run-up to exams. By 11, she was doing 3 and 3/4 hours per week routinely, 4 and 3/4 in exam terms - and this was in addition to tap, modern, stretching, a private lesson and at least 2 hours of troupe work per week. She took her Grade 5 at 11, Grade 6 at 12 and Int Foundation at just turned 13. Her progress through the lower grades was at a 'normal' pace for her dance school, her progress through the higher ones a little faster - her age peers are mostly taking Grade 6, with a few in Grade 5. It was normal, at 11, for all the 'reasonably serious' dancers at DD's dance school to dance at least 4 nights a week, usually 5. She is regarded by her teacher as 'on track' for dance college at 18, the normal exit point for her dance school - although a few do go to vocational school earlier to be classically trained, most go on to Arts Ed, Laines, Bird, London Studio Centre etc. She is not 'good enough' at ballet - though she does OK at things like the ISTD Ballet Awards at Crawley each year, and gets high Distinctions in all exams - to consider 'ballet only' vocational training at this point, though i think if we hadn't lived so close to a good non-vocational school we might well have had to consider a more 'all round' vocational school for her to be able to dance as much as / at the level that she does now ((14+ hours this week)