Kate_N

Dear All,

We've known for some time informally that the Office of Students has been proposing to re-organise the extra government funding that 'high cost' subjects receive (the Teaching] Grant) in addition to the privatised tuition fee. 

The proposal has now been published, and there is a consultation, with a very short time frame (hmmmm) - responses are required by 6th May. The main issue is the decision to remove all extra funding to arts & humanities subjects, so as to transfer all resources to science & technology (STEMM) teaching at UK universities. This is because, apparently, these are 'high cost' but 'low value' degrees. 

If you would like to protest against this short-sighted policy, please can I ask you to consider signing this petition:

https://www.campaignforthearts.org/petitions/stop-the-50-percent-funding-cut-to-arts-subjects-in-higher-education/?fbclid=IwAR1IC8daSQmnY4b9n4y078fqLmrQ9vhZwVptQJIJ41Lt_T9dEVtBoEFYako

Anyone is invited to respond to the consultation - as an individual, a university student, a teacher, or a student's parent, perhaps. You can find the documentation here:

https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/publications/consultation-on-recurrent-funding-for-2021-22/

I hope the Mods don't mind me letting you know about this. As a community of arts lovers, dancers, and parents of dancers, I thought you should know about this.

The wonderful Christina Mittelmaier does live online PBT. She is a really excellent caring teacher, and so good at Zoom classes in terms of corrections, explanations, and encouragement.

https://www.xristina.com/

Don't know if you're within commuting distance of Oxford, but you could try Susie Crowe's classes & those of her colleagues. You can find details here:

https://balletinsmallspaces.wordpress.com/

and an archive about Ballet in Small Spaces here:

http://www.balletinsmallspaces.co.uk/

Dr Crow, and her colleagues (such as Segolene Tart) are wonderful practitioners - really thinking dancers & teachers. Very safe but challenging. 

These are for adults, so at the moment are virtual. As you're under 18, of course you'll be able to attend in-person classes at studios. I hope you find the right one!

Oh, that is such sad news. Many condolences to her family. 

52 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

She absolutely does not have to give up ballet because she has entered puberty early or because she doesn't have the "perfect ballet body". There is no such thing as a dancer who is "unworthy" of high quality teaching because of their physique.

This!!!! I suppose I'm concerned about this because, as an adult dancer, I've had many women telling me they wished they could have done ballet as a child/teenager, or that they'd kept up the study of ballet even when their bodily development or ultimate technical ability etc etc meant that they could never consider a professional career. Or the people who discover ballet as adults and become entranced (or sometimes obsessed) by learning it. The sense of loss of experiences is strong, and very sad. Anyone should be able to learn ballet, whatever their body shape, size or age.

But also what you say @Pups_mumabout eventually being very clear-eyed about the likelihood of a career. But that can come at 16 or so - and often, young people see themselves how they measure up (sorry I really don't mean that as a pun). Until then, if she loves dancing she should be encouraged, and not told she can't because of her normal female body.

I saw his Carmina Burana in Krefeld a couple of seasons ago (to the Orff arrangement). There were no tickets left (not even for company members) so I sat in the sound box a the back of the auditorium. It was a-may-zing: the full opera chorus, plus soloists, plus local amateur & children's choirs, the Niederrhein Orchester, and glorious choreography where the dancers just never seemed to stop moving. THere's a flow to his choreography that is exhilirating (exhausting for the dancers though!)

Also, just to say, there's quite a bit of discussion here in this forum about the options for young people undertaking the serious study of ballet to a very high level, but unable - for a multitude of reasons - to pursue a career as a professional ballet dancer. There are many benefits to the serious study of ballet, and to give it all up at 10, just because of normal and natural girl's/women's bodily development, seems extreme to me. And very sad that a parent would co-operate in this treatment of their daughter.

This (free) documentary has just been released on YouTube: What Dancers Do. It features the company of Robert North at Krefeld-Moenchengladbach (in NordRheinWestfalia, near Düsseldorf, in Germany). It's a company I know reasonably well, and I've watched Mr North's choreography over the years - his choreography is just gorgeous - the end of "Bach Dances" makes me want to get up and jump! I've also had the privilege of hearing his amazing stories about working with "Martha" and "Merce" (Martha Graham & Merce Cunningham). It's a gem of a company, in a Stadttheater with really interesting programming in dance, opera, and plays. Lucky Gladbachers!

8 hours ago, balletmom225 said:

I think this is the right choice, considering it seems to be emotionally difficult for her to dance next to tiny, flat-chested girls when she has already gone through several cups in the last year or so. 

I think this is very sad, that you and her teachers have responded to natural development in this way. Does your daughter love studying ballet? Does she enjoy it? Surely, that is the essential question - not whether you should lie to your daughter.

Surely, the job of a parent is to support a child in her dreams, and help her to cope emotionally with the comparison? And the probability is, that in 2 or 3 years all those other skinny young girls will also be going through puberty. So it's just that she's a couple of years ahead. Can you not reassure her that what's happening is normal, and she doesn't have to stop her serious study of ballet? 

Why would you lie to your daughter about this, or collude with a teacher who has very odd (and totally old-fashioned) views?

11 hours ago, Laetitia said:

 I was amazed at the possibilities and what could be achieved in a small space at home. As a teacher, it is a great challenge and with an open mind and a bit of creativity, my students were able to do more or less do a full ballet class

This has been my experience: I've been able to do regular classes every day with really wonderful teachers, and at a variety of levels. I've improved immensely in really basic technique, and got very strong. All in my kitchen! 

I've been so appreciative of teachers' abilities to give such expert corrections online (even if I miss the actual hands on corrections), and really, this has got me through lockdown. 

So thank you for doing this!!

On 17/04/2021 at 10:17, Tango Dancer said:

I'm working during the weekdays so can only do classes in the evening but I'm following @Laetitia on instagram now for any weekend workshops

oo thanks for that tip, @Tango Dancer- the workshops sound great! And I know from Ms Losardo's classes at DanceXchange, that I will learn a lot. 

I'm getting to the age when huge improvements are never going to happen, so I love to learn from teachers who can offer new and interesting ways of working.

Oh no! How very sad. This year has already taken so many from us. Still thinking about Helen McRory ...

15 hours ago, Laetitia said:

It is from the success of these workshops that I decided to start a regular class.

It sounds great! Sorry I can't attend regularly, but are drop-ins (when work permits) OK?

This sounds wonderful, although the timing is impossible for me (work 🙁 ) but I think you taught classes at DanceXchange? I think I've done your classes and enjoyed them.

Most of the posters here are based in the UK. In my experience, most sponsorship funding is usually based in the dancer's country of citizenship (so for your daughter, Denmark) or the school itself. Have you enquired of the school, or your national education department?

And I'd also strongly endorse @Anna C's advice about reading https://dancers.invisionzone.com/ as I"m pretty sure there are several parents of DCs who have travelled from overseas to study here or in the rest of Europe. 

10 hours ago, ballet2431 said:

Did your dancer attend an American online school?

The usual thing in UK vocational schools is to pursue UK secondary school qualifications, and these are generally part of the programme of studies in full-time ballet schools. Such qualifications are nationally standardised, although with some differences in the 4 nations of the [devolved] United Kingdom. The GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) at around age 16 and then the matriculation qualification - A Levels (Advanced GCSE) or BTEC (a more vocational/practice-based qualification) or the International Baccalaureate or in Scotland, the Highers. These higher level qualifications (A Levels & equivalents) enable progress to university education, if desired.

There are some differences in standards between the UK and the US because of much earlier specialisation in the UK  (for better or worse). They are nationally standardised in terms of standards, curricula and examination/assessment, rather than local/State based as in the US. Going from GCSE to A Level/BTec requires a much greater degree of specialisation than in the US. And it's a 13 year system (from start of school to matriculation -it's never called "graduation" from secondary school 😉 ) whereas I think the US system is 12 (but I could be wrong there, family members have skipped years going from the EU to the US system).

My experience of years of teaching US exchange students at university level, (and what I also know of family members' education in the US) is that A Levels are the equivalent of the AP system in the US - and nearer to the standard required for Freshman university year in a US college. My French & German younger family members would also argue that the French Bacc or the German Arbitür are also of a very demanding standard - again, this is about specialisation, and also US university basic degrees are 4 years rather than our 3 years (except in Scotland where university students do 4 years & generally graduate with a Masters qualification). We don't use the US practice of SATS for university entrance. 

So your DD would have some adjustments to make in terms of her level of study according to her age (I jumped up 18 months going from the UK education system to that of a non-European country as a child). However, she'd have internationally-recognised qualifications which are very transferable across Europe. 

It might depend on what she wants to do in terms of a dance career - stay in Europe or return to the US? And the Plans B or C or D if there isn't a dance career - where might she want to live, study and work post high school?

Personally, I would think it would be quite tough to be in a UK/European vocational dance school and be doing a very different kind of secondary school syllabus. But you know best how your DD can work & organise herself.

Yes, my organisation (I'm leading an international coalition of theatre/performance researchers & curators) got this answer as well. We're now calling for a bit more consultation with the international community of performance researchers. Equity is also concerned that members who have donated private collections via special arrangements have not been consulted.

😅😂🤣

I liked the report on this morning’s Today programme of plans for a statue of Dominic Cummings at Barnard’s Castle, to be located outside the local Specsavers. 

What you're describing @MPattisounds like a version of 'kinaesthetic intelligence.' An aptitude for learning in a particular way through physical cues (rather than words, or visually, etc etc)

Other things that determine 'potential': one might add the potential for a physique which is currently in demand in classical ballet companies. These are fairly well accepted: in girls/women: small head, long neck, legs in proportion to torso (or slightly longer), strength without bulk, as well as a fair degree of natural/passive turnout. 

For boys/men, probably slightly different, in that broad shoulders and probably more of a consideration of the proportions of strength/weight/bulk to size.

For both sexes, overall, it's about the dancer being able to create visually pleasing body movements & shapes, I suppose.

There's also possibly an issue of height - again, at age 11, it's potential, isn't it? My mother was at a vocational ballet school in the late 40s/early 50s (which is still going with an excellent reputation), and a schoolmate of hers was rejected for White Lodge because of potential physique issues (proportions of torso, spine, and legs) and the prediction that she would grow to be "too tall." I know a very talented teacher in the US who attended School of American Ballet all through his teen years, but because he's short for a man (I'd say he's under 5' 6") he was told that he probably wouldn't achieve a company position - although he has legs & turnout to die for when I've done class with him ... 

It's never a level playing field ...

4 hours ago, TwoDancers said:

How about we simply say well done to the children and wish them good luck at whatever school they may be attending, vocational or otherwise.  That old mantra - be kind.

Thank you so much @TwoDancers and @Anna C for your wise words. Some of the speculation about children on this thread is close to the bone at times.

9 minutes ago, Pups_mum said:

Why does ballet have to be leading somewhere when sport can just "be"? 

Oh I see, yes, that is difficult @Pups_mum And I agree, it is a puzzle I've wondered about as well.

I suppose because ballet isn't like sport, where - although the spectators are important - the main point is playing a game, and winning it! Ultimately, ballet is a performance art and needs an audience. 

But yes, it's really hard to keep up top-level training outside large cities. I've found that myself, and just have to live with losing certain skills or experience with kinds of steps etc. But I never had full-time training to an extremely high level - just adequate at Advanced syllabus level. And there's a limit to how many studios will let a middle-aged woman dance with 15 or 16 year olds! 

12 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

How often do we hear words like "just a hobby" and "only a recreational dancer" as though anything other than a professional career is worthless. What nonsense. As long as dance is bringing joy, to the dancer and those who watch, it is very worthwhile.

This is lovely @Pups_mum as an adult (perpetual student) dancer, I'm still doing almost daily classes for the love of it, the beautiful music,  the delight of trying each day to get a little bit better at some difficult stuff.

But people (outside of the ballet world) are surprised to hear it. It's odd - if I cycled or played tennis, or played bridge, or whatever - no-one would bat an eyelash. 

Children with good training in ballet and dance have something beautiful for life!

12 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

Maybe there needs to be more development opportunities for dancers who don't aspire to a professional career?

There are quite a lot of professional dance-related roles: education & outreach officers with the UK-wide network of funded dance agencies (not agents who get you work, but places like Swindon Dance or DanceXchange or Ludus); fund-raisers, stage technicians ... and so on.

Brava times a hundred, @Harwel

And your point about the fundamental requirement: 

1 hour ago, Harwel said:

No one gets a place if they are not incredibly gifted physically.  The training is intense and only a tiny minority can take it (a tiny % of those accepted at year 7) classical dancers are elite athletes that are born for the role.  

 is so true. And the physical gifts are never a 'level playing field' particularly when added to the requirement for musicality, communication ability, and the desire to want to use all these attributes. 

I remember having some physiotherapy treatment years ago, and the physio was a consultant to a major Olympic athlete team. She'd pointed out something in the way my legs worked out in turnout, and we were talking about the extreme physical requirements of dancers & athletes. I'll always remember her statement that Olympic class athletes had to be pretty much biomechanically perfect, because the intensity of training led to injuries otherwise. I think it's pretty similar for dancers.

The other thing to remember is that no-one posting here (as far as we can know!) is on selection panels or staff at the various vocational schools where children are auditioning.

So any judgements any of us make are always going to be partial and not really informed by enough information. The teachers among us who have had pupils go to vocational schools may have more insight, but they're professional, and not going to speculate, I would hope.

And brava @glowlight especially your final point

26 minutes ago, glowlight said:

We shouldn't worry about what other people are doing - we should do what is right for our own families

None of this speculation really answers @Momapalooza's question. First-hand experiences of other parents generously sharing on this board suggests that there are many roads to Rome ...