Thecatsmother

I am in the middle of preparing a workshop to introduce some key concepts earlier in the training of a group of young dancers. I plan to teach exercises to improve turn out and flexibility but also to educate them about what they can do to set goals for themselves and then use a range of technical and mobility/strengthening exercises to work towards those goals. I am going to be working with young dancers about 9-11. I would be really interested to hear from parents or dancers what they feel they struggle with at this age or looking back what would have been useful at that age. There is so much out there in terms of new research/programmes being developed that I want to try introducing some workshops at an earlier age to monitor whether this makes a difference over time. It is helpful to integrate the thoughts of others to assist me in planning. Many thanks to anyone who is willing to give me additional insight into the needs or challenges of this age group.

One class a week would not be enough but that does not necessarily mean private lessons. Is there an associate program nearby? What syllabus is she doing?

I would say an occasional private lesson might be useful but given her age she should be able to pursue her career options without engaging in weekly private lessons. If preparing for an exam, competition, performance or wanting to focus on a specific area eg strengthen pointe work, then this would useful. I encourage young people who think they may want to go to vocational school to look at things which can be added in to improve their technique, flexibility and artistry. There is merit in looking into basic things like a floor barre/pilates class or DVD. Using a theraband to strengthen feet and also generally watching performances either live or in the form of DVD. I think it helps to encourage young dancers to develop skills in terms of assessing what they like about a specific dancer/performance and what they can learn from it. Setting goals for self and attending summer intensives or other workshops can help augment training at this age. Can I ask how many classes she is doing per week?

Re the battu in Aurora solo. It's about isolating the movement below the knee to do this. It can help to almost think of it like a bit of a 'nervous twitch' but your thigh should remain still and turned out.

In response to the Aurora question in simple terms probably the best way to describe it is to turn to face croise with right foot in front. To get the step in stages may be first practice releasing the back foot (left foot) and doing a small pose to the side travelling diagonally to the upstage corner with the front foot just at the height of a petit retire. I would practice this getting your balance by ensuring you keep you core strong and transfer your weight fully onto the left leg on demi pointe. If you crawl into a pose you will not hit the balance as it requires a swift transfer of weight. Once you have got this try the same action with a small petit developpe added. Finally you can try putting it together. The action of the foot is like a petit battement battu. So in simple terms you do the pose and as you transfer the weight you do the 'beat beat extend' action with the right leg. Personally I think it is easier to learn using the arms for the step as it can help in getting the weight in the right place. The petit battement battu could be practiced at the barre doing the double beat at the front and then extending to developpe. There are a number of different versions as to how you may see this section performed as as some do travelling backwards and others to the side travelling upstage. The subsequent section also has a number of different ports de bras's which you will see used. The key is in the transfer of weight, a quick petiti battement action and ensuring that your core is engage to stabilise. Hope this helps????

Have you thought of constructing a picture either on a pin board or card which is a collage of inspiring things. It can include pictures, words, poems, statements, things cut out of magazines etc. The purpose is to use this to create her dream for the future. It can include what is important to her, things that make her happy, inspiring pictures, poems, funny items etc. this is something that can be framed or changed and added to as time passes. I have one at home and it definitely helps by making me think about what is important in life. All the best

There will always be competition in the ballet world but I guess the question here is when is this part of developing a robust sense of self to survive in the dance world and when does it reach a stage where it is destructive rather than constructive. I am not sure what method of training your daughter is doing but most have a teaching standards and child protection information on their main websites- the RAD for example has this accessible online and perhaps is something which is useful to review when trying to place what is going on in context. There are so many variables here which would produce different outcomes so it is difficult for anyone to assess other than those directly involved. I think the age of the dancer, their level of self esteem, other personality traits and the amount of contact with this dynamic are important factors to consider. Ultimately you know your DD best and therefore are best placed to make the decision. Perhaps it might help to explore if there are other options. Sometimes just knowing you have a plan B can help if things deteriorate.

I too can so relate to this issue as I experienced it as a student from both angles at different points in my career. I think the important question is perhaps to consider the motive and context of what is going on. Is it am issue which appears to be something occurring due to lack of the teacher's awareness or do you perceive their to be an additional motive. How much is it impacting upon your dd? Regardless it is vital that she is able to find a safe place to articulate how she experiences this and the impact it has upon her learning and self-esteem. If there are other teachers whom she can get some of what is lacking from then this will help. If this is not the case then further contemplation around context might be useful. A good teacher can make or break a young dancer. The good ones know when to push and when to stop. Sometimes past dynamics from the ballet teacher's career can get acted out upon students and this can be more serious. As a starting point I would try and gather as much information in terms of what is going on and how your dd perceives this. Does it happen to other students or just her? I think it is so good that as a parent you are identifying it and considering what is in the best interests of your dd. That is a sign of a parent who puts the well-being of her child at the centre of training. This should always be the case but sadly is not. PM me if you would like to discuss further.

ENB costume department put them under the shower...

Something like a developpe to second is taken much further to the side and focus upon standing with feet flat turned out. If you look at any of the vaganova students on you tube especially the younger students this should illustrate as you can see them beginning to master the positions.

As long as their is flexibility in terms of expectations and the body is not forced way beyond its capacity from an anatomical perspective then all training approaches have there merits.

I would agree. I also get students who are doing Russian training as adults and it concerns me re knee and hip injuries if they do not have the turnout in the first place.

In my spare time I have been watching a lot of material on the Russian second position and the promotional material on 'secrets of russian ballet'. Interested to hear people's thoughts on this especially those who are physiotherapists. I know the Russian system selects children with ample turn out but curious as to how this can be applied in the UK in non vocational schools where flat turnout is not a prerequisite. I get the concept but am curious re injury risk for those encouraged to work in this way without a great deal of natural turn out.

Personally I always liked a bit of hardness around toe area as once that is gone it is harder to make feet look so good even with v bendy feet. I used to prefer broken down pointe shoes at vocational school as lasted longer than soft blocks. Mind you my consumption of pointe shoes was quite high with lots of pas de deux and v arched feet.

Organisations like the RAD have a child protection policy and define what they as an organisation consider to be acceptable and unacceptable. I have read their policies and wonder what people think. My sense is that input needs to come from outside agencies due to the potential of conflict of interest. I think 'abuse' in the dance sense is highly likely to go unreported unless people have confidence in the system. This does need to change otherwise we are in danger of training the next generation of teachers and dancers to replicate what they experienced. That being said there are a large number of teachers doing a great job in nurturing talent. The problem arises when power is abused and that is more likely to occur if the leader is not accountable to anyone due to organisational structures.

This is why young people need to be more protected. Other than going to social services there is little else in terms of protective mechanisms in non vocational schools. There was a case a few years back where social services got involved at a vocational school. The person who reported it had an ethical duty to do so but subsequently was no longer employed in that setting.

I agree with your comments Anjuli. Teachers are placed in a privileged position. This can be a wonderful relationship if the teacher is attuned with the how to help every student to achieve their potential. You have to really get to know your students as people as one size does not fit all in terms of teaching approach. In a way being a teacher is a bit like the role of a gardener-finding where the plants flourish best, providing with the basics to grow and realising that rigorous pruning may shape a plant which is pleasing to look at but may also kill something within. A bit philosophical but true. Aileen- it was a number of years ago but the person in question is still teaching but of course that is not appropriate to discuss on a public forum. I did however have a student who I mentored a few years back who had come through my old school and then gone on to train with a teacher who would stand behind her with a screwdriver to prevent her from leaning back. So much of my work was trying to undo the mental damage that was done but this is difficult when it has been so ingrained.

My sense is "some" teachers have too much power in an unhealthy rather than leadership/mentor role. It is often the case that this can almost create a 'cult' like mentality in a school where the teacher can almost brain wash students/parents to question their reality and cause them to fear questioning in case it make things worse. If a teacher has a valid and appropriate rationale for decisions/actions then I think this can assist in resolution. For me, it made things far worse and got so bad that I chose to leave a few years later. I was lucky enough to find a nurturing teacher and this helped me to begin to believe in myself again. How you find a solution to these situations is tricky due to the incestuous nature of the ballet world. I guarantee that if I set up a website for survivors of non vocational/vocational schools there would be many that had things to say. It is just difficult to know where to take it other than social services but I would imagine many would fear to speak up in case it made things worse for them. On the plus side, I am grateful for the lessons she taught me as to how not to teach students. So I think ballet has much to offer young people but extreme care has to be placed upon finding what is right for the child. If they are happy and thrive on what they are receiving then surely this enriches their childhood. Having a friendship network outside of dance can also help achieve more balance in early life.

I was not allowed to go the vocational route until 16 so spent my life travelling long distances to and from classes up to age of 16. My training as a young child was nothing short of brutal as the teacher forbid us from attending parties, put some students as young as ten on diets and prevented her favoured pupils from doing sport at school as she said it built the wrong muscles. Over the years, I was pulled across the room by my hair-other students had similar experiences but nobody has talked openly about what went on at that time. I do worry that some dance teachers continue to hold too much power over young people. Respect and commitment are important and there are some great teachers out there but also some who cause students to suffer unecessary abuse in silence. This darker side does I think equate to a degree of loss of childhood as it is experienced at such a young age when the child's beliefs about the world are still developing. If I could change one thing about the ballet world it would be the development of a more robust reporting system to identify when 'abuse' is occurring at the hands of teachers. I agree there can be a fine line and different personalities respond to different styles but it is wrong for a young person to spend years living in fear and feel powerless to do anything about it. Vocational schools tend to have processes in place but intense training at a non vocational school leaves students in a much more vulnerable position. The fact that a friend of mine tried to take an overdose at ballet perhaps illustrates my point.

In my 'humble' opinion here are a few 'pointes' which come to mind:- -Ensuring you allow sufficient time to arrive early for class. -If the inevitable happens and British Rail or Transport for London have other ideas re your ETA then a simple apology and ensure you do your own warm up before joining class. -I agree that not all adults will feel comfortable in leotard and tights but important to have proper fitting footwear and long hair tied back. -Any ends of elastics should be tucked in on ballet shoes and ensure that you sew elastics correctly onto soft ballet shoes-a teacher can tell you how to do this. -There are the obvious such as turning off mobiles and making sure you do not place your bag in an area which takes up barre space. -Always ensure you start exercises with left hand on barre unless told otherwise. -Always turn towards the barre in between sides of an exercise. The ballet police definitely frown upon lack of adherence to this one.... -Unless you are in a class of pure beginners it is a good idea not to place yourself at the front of the barre if you struggle picking up exercises. -Spacing is also important so where possible try and not stand on top of someone at the barre or in the centre but work with the space available. -Normally dancers turn in towards or away from the barre when there is insufficient space to avoid kicking each other. -In the centre make sure that you are ready to start an exercise if put in groups travelling from corner. Even the pianists get frustrated with this one. It is also important to be aware of other dancers in your group and use space to a maximum. -Ask questions but if you are finding you have multiple things to ask this can interrupt flow of class for others so it may be an idea to ask at another time or request a brief private lesson, -Don't try to run before you can walk by jumping to an advanced class too early if you are able to access a range of classes. This is not always possible due to location and teachers can then usually work with this by setting different versions. -In places where there is the option to select levels, if you are a beginner or relatively new to ballet it is a good idea to ask the teacher whether the level is suitable for you or alternatively whether they think you would benefit from going up a level. Some people can progress quicker than others but this really needs to be taken on a case by case basis as being way out of your depth is not great for anyone including other members of the class. -Inform the teacher prior to any class if you have an injury. -In the event that you do have to sit out part of the class there is much to be gained from watching others or doing strengthening exercises at the side of the studio rather than just leaving early. -If you have to leave early just acknowledge teacher as you go out door. -If you progress to pointe work as an adult seek your teacher's advice as to whether your feet are strong enough to do this and gain advice re buying shoes, how to sew ribbons on and break the shoes in. Most definitely don't try at home alone. -In the event of becoming involved in performances it would be practically unheard of for a dancer to perform without attending a rehearsal. My take is that this is even more important for adults with less experience as there may be blind spots which cannot be seen by the performer. -Be mindful and respectful that many adults attending classes struggle with confidence so support and encouragement is important. Most are better than they think they are but it can work both ways and this is why attending classes with other adults can be so worthwhile. -Set your own achievable goals in collaboration with your teacher and remember that dance is not just about 'doing' steps but about developing the ability to make fluid transitions and draw out subtle nuances of the music. Developing the fluidity of movement and good use of arms/head are perhaps some of the trickiest to master. I sometimes have students mark through an exercise or solo to the music just with the arms and head. I have rambled but hope there may be something of use to someone. I list these as just my thoughts based upon experience and hope these are respected for being just that!

There is plenty I could say based upon the feedback I receive from adults and my own experience of teaching adults. I encourage dancers to be thinking dancers and ask questions but am a little reluctant to share my thoughts given the manner in which some comments have been responded to recently. I am therefore going to think v carefully about how I respond and frame this as a series of questions....tbc

I am wondering whether some discussion around etiquette in ballet classes might be useful to enhance this thread? There may be questions around what is important to know or why something is structured in a certain way. It certainly assists in collective learning and improves the experience of the class as a whole?

You will never know unless you try:)

Lauretta's mother has a school which I believe was where she did her early training and she still is involved with.

A multi regional DVD player in the UK is a bonus as you can get some great US documentaries and performances:)