Thecatsmother

I have taught adults up to the age of 77. I think everyone can enjoy ballet. If you can find a good beginners teacher who will go slowly through the basics and follow their advice regarding progression I would say give it a try and see what you think. Give it a couple of terms before you make any assessments of if you want to continue as it takes time to build confidence as an adult. Age should also not be a barrier as the oldest adult I know who attends regular classes is in her 80's. In terms of turn out, as an adult your hips will be pretty set naturally to whatever degree of rotation you have. You may get a slight increase in range and learning to use the right muscles will also help enhance what you have naturally. Of course when you watch ballet, flat turn out looks aesthetically pleasing but as an adult the issue of turn out should not prevent you from attending classes as many people have limited range. As long as you enjoy it and do not force it to cause injury you should be fine. A good teacher and the companionship/encouragement of other adults is very helpful. Never compare yourself to others. You are where you are and whilst you can learn from others it is important to remember that everyone is unique and has a different physique/experience. There are many other pleasures to adult classes such as the feeling you get during and after a good class. I can't put that in to words other than it brings a multiplicity of benefits. I look forward to hearing about your first class????

Everybody is unique so what works for one person in terms of stretching is not right for another. I strongly suggest that people seek the advice of a dance Physio and/or dance teacher to get advice as to what stretches etc are good for them rather than following suggestions from others who may not be in the best position to advise.

Many thanks. Yes, I hope my treatment is now in better ballet specific hands. I guess it's a fear of what I will do if end up on crutches as I need to move in some shape or form. I hope at least to get some answers this week.

Just ballet. I think you are well instructed but you will wonder how I know????

I have been relatively lucky during my dance career but am struggling with the prospect of trying to find a solution to what has become a chronic injury. It would be useful to hear how other people coped and what they did to keep entertained when out of action. I hope by posting this it might also help other dancers or parents of dancers in a similar situation as injury can be an isolating process.

It is always lovely to see a young dancer looking so alive and happy. The pictures are beautiful.

A lot of things will be evident in class by arabesque lines, turn out, developpe to second, back bends, pointe work etc. They may well follow up any concerns in an orthopaedic assessment. Is there something specific that you worried about re an area of flexibilty etc? In relation to a scoliosis, this will probably be picked up but I do have friends who have attended vocational school with no difficulty with on-going Physio support and exercises. It would do no harm to consult with a dance Physio as they should be able to give you exercises to help if you have not been given these already. Hope this addresses both questions????

I think it might be worth you holding your last sentence in mind and asking a well qualified teacher who has substantial experience of putting adults on to pointe for professional advice. It is probably best actually to ask all who teach you whether you are ready for pointe work as then you should get an all around picture. Nobody can self teach pointe work as it is dangerous and a considerable amount of preparation work with the oversight from an experienced teacher is required. I am sorry but I have to come in strongly here as safety of all reading must be the primary concern. It's like asking me to comment on tooth extraction having read about it and watched operations. Even if I thought I knew what I was doing I would do damage or it incorrectly without extensive years of training. It's great that adults have so many opportunities but I just want anyone attempting ballet to remain safe otherwise they will not be able to enjoy it for long.

If it's for ballet school they will be looking for the key things like the ones you describe plus mobility of the upper and lower back, feet, degree of range of turnout. A lot of these can be seen in class but some schools have orthopaedic assessments which will check for things picked up in auditions and typical things like signs of scoliosis, length of Achilles' tendon which impacts depth of Demi plié, more accurate assessment of turn out as frogs are not a particularly good way of assessing. Sometimes they look for signs of hyper mobility or any other imbalances due to growth etc which might need to be worked on. Hope this helps but I would say normal stretching and strengthening exercises will have any dancer prepared to the best of their ability unless there is a known weakness which can be targeted through specific conditioning exercises.

It does take years of training before young professionals are ready to go on pointe and even then it is a slow process.

Excellent. Well done ????

http://www.theballetblog.com/article/dance-injuries/dangers-teaching-pointe-work/ Thought this might be of interest to any adults doing pointe work. Enjoy!

My opinion is that it helps to put yourself in the place of the audience panel when making a decision. The leotard should be in keeping with the style of the audition so if classical then a classic looking leotard is good. I agree with comments that it is best to get something which is flattering in terms of leg length etc but ultimately if a dancer is well groomed and shows potential this will evoke the panel's attention. If the dancer feels comfortable in what they are wearing then this too can only act in their favour.

My opinion is that it helps to put yourself in the place of the audience panel when making a decision. The leotard should be in keeping with the style of the audition so if classical then a classic looking leotard is good. I agree with comments that it is best to get something which is flattering in terms of leg length etc but ultimately if a dancer is well groomed and shows potential this will evoke the panel's attention. If the dancer feels comfortable in what they are wearing then this too can only act in their favour.

My opinion is that it helps to put yourself in the place of the audience panel when making a decision. The leotard should be in keeping with the style of the audition so if classical then a classic looking leotard is good. I agree with comments that it is best to get something which is flattering in terms of leg length etc but ultimately if a dancer is well groomed and shows potential this will evoke the panel's attention.

It seems like there is a major and unhealthy element of power and control being exerted in some schools which should not be the case. Some dance schools seem to almost have a cult like status which says something in itself. No parent should be 'fearful' of leaving a school.

I have never heard of this either. I am assuming you have not signed any legally binding contract with the school? Provided you have told the teacher you are leaving, and even if you had not, you have the right to leave. Does this clash with any upcoming performances/competitions? That may be inconvenient for the teacher but you are still well within your rights as a paying parent to change dance schools.

Just be careful Michelle as not sure how you would stand insurance wise if practicing complex solos outside the adult classes unsupervised in the ENB or indeed the studios of any other company. Have you asked them whether they are happy for you to do this?

I get your point(e) Anjuli. So much of the teaching with adults is about building up confidence that it is ok to have a go and enjoy ballet. For beginners who have never danced in childhood, there can be a tendency to compare self to others in the class or even be put off by this process. Reading back through the thread, I wonder what this is like for new starters to read and whether there are questions that remain unanswered?

Perhaps a more holistic approach might be useful when addressing the issue of adult ballet. What is this all about apart from the expense, travelling and attendance of classes? Here are my thoughts... Adult ballet should ultimately be about fun and enjoyment as opposed to a test of endurance. It should help enhance flexibilty, co-ordination, musicality and strength. An adult has to master the challenges of using the correct muscle groups and mastering movements to develop the best possible classical lines. Adult ballet can also be a good social experience and a form of non verbal emotional expression in terms of moving to music. I know for certain that I dance different things in different ways depending upon my mood. There is much to be learned from watching others in the class as this can provoke deeper reflection upon how to enhance technique or perform a movement with the right quality. We can learn as much from watching what we don't like as from watching what we like. Each are opportunities for learning. Adult ballet should be as safe as possible in terms of the physical space and working around the level which is appropriate for experience. There are some things that cannot be learned and some adults by nature of physique, natural aptitude etc can find it easier to progress than others. Adults seem to have become increasingly interested in performing. This can be a valuable and enjoyable experience but mastery of lines and technique will always improve the aesthetics. One of the things which I have noted that can be a challenge for adults is linking steps together and developing fluidity of movement. This is why it is important to have a good technical grasp of individual steps before moving on to more complex enchainements. It is also useful to mark through exercises with just arms, head and body so that the movement becomes integrated and more fluid when it is executed. As an adult progresses they begin to develop their own 'inner teacher' which can help to correct and practice movements. This takes time and some adults are more able to utilise this wisely to their benefit. All dancers need feedback and to be fully able to observe and actually 'see' what is working and what needs to be improved. This has become a rather lengthy post but my advice to adults is firstly to find a class you enjoy, can practice at a safe level and embrace the opportunity to learn. We all have days when class feels more a chore than a pleasure but it can be useful to regularly review training as needs may differ for a whole host of reasons. Ballet is an art form where dancers push themselves to attain what always seems just out of reach. Whilst this is a useful motivator, there are a number of other aspects of amateur ballet which are there to be enjoyed so the 'no pain, no gain' mantra does not always have to be the case. Listen to your body as certain pains are a sign to stop in order to protect against injury. Finally, dance is not a competition at amateur level. There is no set pace as everyone's needs are individual and can change over time. In days where stress in the workplace is so prevalent, adult ballet should be a source of stress relief as opposed to a source of stress. Keep things in perspective????

I guess it depends what is meant by the term 'beginner'?

Hi Michelle It's good to ask questions. I am totally not for creating dependence on a teacher but for a beginner it can be very hard to distinguish between finding the right muscles to begin with in order to create good lines. In addition, a good grounding in beginners is vital to enable smooth progress and to lessen the chance of injury which can stop someone dancing completely. All teachers have different views on this but my sense is that it is best to ask your teachers when you are ready to progress. Most of mine do and are very open to the feedback. I am of the opinion that if you are talking about an adult beginner then they should be able to make use and produce good lines of legs, feet and arms, a sense of balance plus an understanding and enhanced ability to begin to use the correct muscle groups for ballet. Dancers should also be able to perform basic jumps using turnout and proper use of feet otherwise this will impede progress in the long term. If you are uncertain, my advice would be to ask your teachers. It seems like you have many so for this reason it may be worth approaching each to ask if they believe you are in the right class standard for you to get the most from classes. Since different classes are at different levels each may have differing opinions. If students are not in the right level then it can also impact upon others in the class. It is usually the case that teachers often have to encourage adults to move to the next level but your question seems to be phrased around quantity of classes rather than technical skills. Maybe it is useful to review where you are at in discussion with your teachers. Practice does not necessarily make perfect-it makes permanent hence my comment in terms of consultation with teachers as it is likely they will know how to advise you as to how to get the best from your classes. You need to be able to see and hear from others even at a professional level so part of learning dance, just like learning any other art form is to receive and integrate advice and feedback. Hope this is of use.

I know I do mention it far too much but Lisa Howell's fast front splits flexibilty program does help in a large number of cases. It's due to the fact that she is introducing a different way of thinking about stretching in terms of releasing tension in neurofascial system. I am someone who is hyper mobile but not as bendy as I used to be when dancing professionally. I observed with interest how there was a huge difference in my flexibilty after I went to my osteopath complaining of headaches due to tension in my neck. She never manipulates me but just massage of my neck and upper back resulted in a huge shift in my flexibilty in my hamstrings. I thing flexibilty is a constantly evolving concept with so many factors which can impact and alter this over time even due to overtraining. I worked on flexibilty training with a group of youngsters a couple of months back who do a lot of musical theatre and it was clear that by mobilising the hip area there flexibilty improved. I assume because of the different way to working in terms of the turn out used in ballet. Contemporary would probably be more accepting about turnout etc but more mobility in the spine may be something that is useful. In short, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule. I think we can only work to enhance and engage what we have naturally. There are some things that we cannot change greatly but learning to use the correct muscle groups to enhance what we have ie turnout etc can only help. The frog test is actually not hugely reliable as an indicator of turn out from the hip. Even with hyper mobility, I became more flexible at vocational school as I was doing things which I had not done before and the intensity of training. If you are talking about selection for dance schools- it can be good to introduce relaxation exercises in addition to stretching and vary your training load and focus to balance out overuse of certain muscle groups.

I liked your post. So true and I do feel sad when I see students who have pushed themselves too fast as in actual fact it takes longer to unlearn the bad habits. Private lessions can be useful to spend more time on specific needs if these are apparent. So much of what makes the difference between good ballet and bad ballet are the basic lines, stance, turn out, use of feet etc. These take time to fully grasp and of course each student has to work with physical limitations. Dance is totally not just about learning steps. It is an art which involves crafting and refining. This needs guidance from teachers because v often students take a while to really be able to be grasp the crucial elements. It is not that they are not trying but just looking at the wrong goal until they can really begin to "see" and feel the gradual integration of the fundamentals of early training. Most teachers are more than happy to give advice as to when students are ready to progress so don't be afraid to ask!!

I think most solos need to be adapted for adults in order for them to be safe and enjoyable. I certainly would not recommend trying the Giselle turns as there are a number of versions to this solo and am sure this will be simplified.