DancingtoDance

Pas de Quatre, I see your point, but I think I am talking about a person who genuinely loves ballet with a passion and doesn't mind/likes conforming, and also likes meeting ballet standards

In a vocational school, I think the person would need an individual education plan to outline the necessary steps for individual goals to be attained. I think the person would need support on social skills and life skills, to be encouraged to make eye contact, reduce the response time for difficult questions, an educational/teaching assistant in at least some classes (mainly for academics/understanding of material). If possible perhaps speech/language therapy in vocational school. Potentially arranging appointments with psychologist in vocational school And in regards to psychological disorder, people including the student being aware of signs of an episode and what they can do to prevent, a 'safe person' and/or 'safe place' to go Dance teachers being aware of difficulties and helping to address them So given this, a lot could have been corrected by the time for a company, but not completely

Thank you aileen for your answer. I could see your point about dancing not acting, however what about the rare occasions where the instructors or rehearsal directors need to ask the dancer a question? Or in emergency situations where the dancer has to communicate to the instructor? I have found and read the thread aileen mentioned before. For anyone interested, here it is: http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/6823-dancers-sen/page-2(hfbrew and annie posted about professional male ballet dancers, for annie it was her son) When do you think a person should disclose their disability? And could you indeed get fired if you don't disclose your disability and they find out? Also do you think people should disclose their disability if they have a different kind of disability, such as dyslexia, dyscalculia, hearing impairment etc which may also become apparent during training? If you disclose your disability but meet the requirements for the company... would the company turn you down? Personally I feel in the situation I mentioned, the person could cope in a ballet company, but potentially thriving may be difficult without proper support. I think the biggest issue would be eye contact (but note, that the dancer can make eye contact properly when asking directions, for very short amount of time during conservation) if people find out what was going on, although it could be argued eye contact is not necessary 100% of the time, because other dancers use this against the person.

Thanks for both of your answers. Pas de Quatre, why do you think there may be more room in the contemporary dance world? And what exactly do you mean by 'contemporary'? I am talking about someone without problems with sensory overload, bright lights, hot environment, loud music, textures etc. And without learning (intellectual) disabilities although may struggle with concepts, and socially/emotionally immature Also, if the person also had a psychological disorder, but manageable, then... would it make a difference? I would not fail to appreciate discussions/informations about other conditions that I listed, or even physical disabilities or medical illnesses Thanks again for both of your answers.

Remember to spot, and don't think of multiple pirouettes as 'turns' but as 'head spots/turns' (I can't remember the exact term, but something like head spots/turns) :-) And of course, remember to use correct alignment!

Thank you aileen for your answer. This is not for homework. I think I am talking more about neurological/developmental (ADHD, ASD, Asperger's, nonverbal learning disability, auditory processing disorder, visual processing disorder), psychological, specific learning (dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia), speech/language, hearing difficulties etc Someone who is a capable dancer, but whose disability may potentially become apparent during training or rehearsals, and/or when being in the company of dancers or company staff while not dancing Who can adapt to change fairly well Also, what would you do in this situation: Someone who can socialise but has difficulty reading nonverbal cues, finding it very difficult to make eye contact while talking but is able to do that while dancing, very socially/emotionally immature, weak in life skills but competent in basic and perhaps some more advanced life skills, perhaps some mild speech/language problems, inconsistent volume of voice (not on purpose), possibly some difficulty following vague instructions and some lack of clearness of speech, which is also somewhat inconsistent (i.e. sometimes clear and sometimes not, but often able to be understood fairly easily and if not, repeating oneself may make the person be able to be understood more easily) Also who picks up choreography rather slowly but always catches up (yes, I realise you won't get work if you can't pick up choreography fast enough) However whose condition is considered mild, can adapt to change well, copes well with the structure of a ballet class or rehearsal, is a capable dancer who can learn required pieces on time provided there are not too many ballets to learn, is able to behave appropriately in situations and for the most part does (except while socialising with peers as most people would find the person 'weird' - this is more a choice and more personality-based) Thank you for any answers Also, would it make a difference whether the person was a female or male?

I do not think it is ALL about the body but I do believe it plays a significant role. Most classical ballet dancers will have all the ballet body criteria. I don't believe that you absolutely have to have all of the ballet body requirements but you do have to have the basics, and without the traditional classical body getting into a vocational school and landing a contract will be far tougher. I do think that you do need all the ballet body criteria for major ballet companies like Royal Ballet, hyperextension perhaps excluded. It is not just about the body, but also artistry and musicality, and of course perfect technique. 4 years ago there was an article on theguardian.com 'Will they make it to the Royal Ballet?' I believe it states only a quarter of Year 7 students will make it to the Upper School, and that out of one dancer's group who went to White Lodge with her only she made it to the company. However, in recent years every Royal Ballet Upper School graduate student has gotten jobs with ballet companies. Puberty changes things, and you need to take care of your body to keep it in good shape, but any girl or boy who wants this enough will do this if they realise how important it is. A ballet body is something you can't control, although you can take care of it and sculpt and tone it, but technique and arguably artistry and musicality can be. Younger students should focus on their technique, artistry and musicality, but by the time a student gets to Year 11, there needs to be some awareness about their body in order to have the best shot at a career. Fonteyn was a wonderful dancer, but she did not have the ideal body and perhaps technique and many would say that she would not make it as a ballet dancer had she been born in this era. Even a dancer with all the gifts will never land a contract if they don't work, so provided everything else is in place, perhaps work ethic and attitude is most important.

Do you mean the Russian teachers seemed very caring?

Are you referring to the Vaganova video? Are you referring to students, teachers or who?

If you are auditioning for ballet companies and you have a disability, should you tell the Artistic Director you have a disability? Would that information hinder you in getting hired, renewing a new contract, getting soloist or principal roles or moving up the ranks if possible, whether legally or illegally? Would you have to disclose certain disabilities? If you disclose your disability and get hired, would the AD tell other staff or is it down to you? Could the company fire you if they find out you have a disability and you didn't disclose it? If you are in a vocational ballet school attached to a certain ballet company, would the school tell the affiliated company of your disability or not? Thank you for any answers.

Moderaters, if this thread is not appropriate on 'Doing Dance', please move. Any wonderful, embarrassing, 'oh!', learning, etc moments? I remember once where foolishly, I didn't tie my ribbons properly and some time into the performance my ribbons untied themselves! I was embarrassed at the moment (I think - it was in Year 9 whereas I'm now in Year 11 so quite a while ago) but not for the whole performance. Any other memorable moments?

You can still leave school by the end of the school year if you are 16 by the end of the summer holidays, you don't have to stay in school until 18, you just have to stay in education until 18. Education may include: -staying at school or a college -part-time education or training while doing 20 or more hours of work or volunteer work -apprenticeship or traineeship https://www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school

Thank you all for your replies. It seems the general opinion is either 'ballerina' is used as a rank or that it is used to refer to all female dancers in a company. But I think outside of the UK 'ballerina' is reserved for a female principal or a prima ballerina assoluta. I find the idea of a 'ballerina' describing a dancer who holds greater quality than other dancers interesting..... personally I think the word 'ballerina' sounds more special. But I don't get the 'difference' between a 'ballerina' and a 'star'.... As for 'The Day in the Life of a Ballerina', I found the video on YouTube (I only watched the first few minutes) and saw that the soloist didn't refer to herself as a 'ballerina' but a 'ballet dancer', so perhaps The Royal Ballet did indeed use the title to attract more general population. But I'm not sure that it is likely that is the case... and I think the audience would be equally attracted to a title that says 'A Day in the Life of a Ballet Dancer'. If that was actually the case, I would think it totally unnecessary and a bit silly. In any case I prefer to call ballet dancers in general 'ballet dancers' and reserve the term 'ballerina' for a Prima Ballerina Assoluta. I shall confess that I am still rather confused but thank you all for replying. It is greatly appreciated.

I am sorry if this is in the wrong place and if so, (to the moderators) please move it. I am really confused. Is 'ballerina' short for prima ballerina assoluta or the title given to a female principal ballet dancer in a company or a term used to refer to all female ballet dancers (in the context of the UK)? Does it differ depending on where you live? Thank you to anyone who can help.

I was given some information about GCSE options, including PE. I believe for GCSE PE you have to perform 4 or 5 sports. The examination at my school is Edexcel 2PE01, giving that information in case different GCSE courses/assessments have different content. The examination is 60% practical assessment and 40% theory assessment. For the practical assessment it is made up of 50% individual skills and skills and use of strategies in a game situation or performance and 10% analysis of performance. As for the written assessment you are assessed on anatomy and physiology; factors that affect participation in physical activity and safety aspects of physical activity. You can look at the Cambridge IGCSE PE syllabus in the website below; not sure but I don't think it's dissimilar to the GCSE course: http://www.cie.org.uk/programmes-and-qualifications/cambridge-igcse-physical-education-0413/\ Past papers: http://www.cie.org.uk/programmes-and-qualifications/cambridge-igcse-physical-education-0413/past-papers/ If the IGCSE course is somehow different, here is a website to look at to get an overview of what is taught: http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/pe/ Hope I helped!

I have just written something about classical ballet. Here is my "poem" (sorry it's so long): Classical ballet. A unique, traditional art, kept alive for centuries now. A strict, yet beautiful art, despite its unfairness. The unfairness of how passionate students with good technique, who have worked hard and improved significantly, may become expelled simply because they are too short or too tall, too fat or too thin, or how their proportions have become inappropriate for ballet. Being expelled can be heartbreaking, especially at the later stage of ballet training, when your body has matured and you are starting to research companies that might suit you. And heartbreaking too for those in the earlier stage of ballet training, when students have just gotten used to life at ballet school, and have grown to love it there. Those with a perfect ballet body and clear talent can be great, but they need to want to be great and want to work. Otherwise they will never get anywhere. Neither would anyone else, if they don’t want to work. Academics are also very important, even when you join the corps de ballet or become a principal dancer, if you are that lucky. Because you never know if you will stay in the company the year after, and you will probably still need to make a living after retirement. For those who worked hard and never made it, they were and still are part of the ballet world. They gave everything to learn to dance, in hope to dance professionally someday. But they accepted that their body had become unfit for ballet, or that they had an illness or injury that stopped their career before it started. And they carried forward. That incredible strength is so important, in anyone. But for dancers, many things are different. For one thing, your body is your instrument. It may likely be criticized, by teachers, choreographers, critics, fellow dancers, the audience - by anyone. But this is all part of your unwritten contract. Because by choosing to be a dancer, you are choosing to be criticized - and that certainly includes your body. Which is just as well, because a slight imperfection in your body can risk your career. Especially since your body is seen by teachers almost every day. And sometimes, by the public. After all, your body is what creates dancing - a beautiful art form that is meant for an audience to watch and interpret.

Thank you so much taxi4ballet I would really appreciate more replies, as this was meant to be for everyone's benefit and I need more information/guidance. I was wondering can the theory aspect of GCSE PE be of benefit and to what extent?

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but I was wondering for the serious ballet student, what are the benefits and disadvantages of doing GCSE PE? Maybe it will provide a better understanding of how to enhance performance (I would think there is some connection between sport and dance!) but might create a larger risk of injuries and/or use of wrong muscles? Or do you just have to choose your sports carefully and you'll be fine? Also, would it be a hindrance if you are not good at science? Thank you, and hopefully the replies will help others too!

Those are exactly the type of shoes that most schools - from 3 year olds in kindergarten (I am guessing) to Secondary - where I live that is the school uniform requirement! I am a student but when I was 11 of course I would have wore them, especially as it was the school uniform! I think that something important to learn or have learnt is economy is not always good, and even when it is you can't always have what you want. I have seen children not far from England selling flowers - do they want to sell flowers? Maybe. But, likelily it is due to living and parents. If they don't maybe they can't survive, or get beaten by parents, or both. So it is what they must do to survive. Your DD is very lucky to have shoes, so she shouldn't need to give a second thought!

WL also states "no fringes" in one of their Documentations. Elmhurst states that girls' hair must be shoulder length (at least a few years back it did). Just as WL did and probably still does according to JulieW - I presume that some other vocational and local ballet schools also state that?. LinMM, I think your question is a very good one! I definitely hope having short hair or fringes when auditioning for WL or Elmhurst doesn't affect your chances too much. But what if someone had as much potential and are as suited for the school, but one has short hair or fringes, which one are they going to take? But everyone is different and shines at different things. But the schools might argue that by having short hair or fringes (for girls) they are breaking the schools' policies/rules - and by breaking the rules they are they are not only destroying the reputation of the school, but putting themselves at greater risk as they are not following instructions. Or maybe hair can grow long enough from March to September and maybe if someone with short hair or fringes is accepted they can state that hair must be at least shoulder length!!!! But even if they do it doesn't tell us whether it is likely or not to affect the chances of getting in itself....

Or even before secondary aged? I know a 10 1/2 year old (going into Year 6) who can do her hair confidently and if I recall correctly, before she was 10 too - and though still primary aged, it would be very irresponsible of her to ask her parents or teacher to do her hair unless in rare cases. I do think most 10 year olds are more than capable of doing their hair - and depending on a child's ablities, by the time they are 6 or 7 or 8 it is definitely time to start learning! If when they start learning they are 10 (eg they start in a professional ballet school) they should learn right away! That said definitely took me some time to learn how to do my hair - I was 12 when I was confident!

Regarding the sacrificing childhood to ballet - I think students might not find it a sacrifice if that was what they have chosen to do. They may find they can't stand the pressure in vocational ballet schools and the life is not suited for them - but if they have made the decision, and manage not to get assessed out, and yet still want to become a ballet dancer, they may realize that eventually, this is what they have to do. Or they may just change career options. But I think that if a parent didn't let a child try to pursue a ballet career, that will be much more of a sacrifice of childhood because think about what if a parent's adult child had almost gotten a job of writing and that was his or her absolute dream, but the parent is against it and prevented it, I'm sure the child would feel heartbroken. Or if the child wanted to pursue writing from a little kid but the parent was against it, and it was the only thing that gave the child joy - of course the child might not become a writer even if it was encouraged, but not being allowed to try to pursue that dream, the child when adult might wonder if he or she in fact had a good chance of becoming a writer if parents were supportive. But what if the parent "pushed" that dream onto the child? What if the child didn't particularly want to become a dancer but the parent wanted it? If the child had no intent of becoming any other profession, maybe the child would be grateful that he or she was given the opportunity to know what path he or she wanted to pursue. If the child does eventually find a contract, and even rises to soloist and even principal, the child might have talent, but was the child almost forced to like ballet? Because the audience can see it. What if the child did want to become something else - maybe an actor or actress - and had talent? If the child actually wants to pursue a career in acting, "sacrifices" also need to be made. But because the child is longing about acting and drama school, ballet might not be very enjoyable - and if even ballet itself is not enjoyable (I mean most of the time - you can't enjoy everything about something ALL the time!) , how will the child truly thrive, if they survive? So I think whether it is worth it or considered a sacrifice or is worth it depends on the circumstances.

Sorry not comfortable giving out where I live - possibly you can find out from the information (I personally hope people don't find out, but people might try and try and find out! Or maybe it's obvious) OK, I can tell you currently I don't live in England

Well I have seen episodes of A Beaitiful Tragedy in youtube, in my opinion the teachers' behavior are quite acceptable. Maybe it is just that I'm naive, but I remain my point that I find it quite acceptable. I don't really think it is that different to normal schools - I don't go to a local school where I live - but I have a feeling that in local schools often teachers downright embarrass and criticize students. It is great that everyone can attend school- as free schooling is offered - but can everyone really take pressure. I feel those extremely poor may actually in many cases not show it but the pressure destroys their confidence. There is also huge pressure to succeed - hours are spent on homework (and I mean real homework - like writing words over and over for two and a half year olds) even for two and a half and three year olds - which is considered quite normal where I live. I have never attended local schools - just what I have seen in the library etc. I also wonder if parents are allowed to slap children why aren't teachers? Where I live I am sure it is considered perfectly fine for parents to hit children given the children don't have to go to hospital - but I think teachers can't use violence as much. The student's behavior - Oksana Skorik - is another story IMO. I think that instead of thinking maybe she really has nothing to do in Perm, she should think about what caused the teacher to imply that, so she has a better understanding. What I would change in ballet is for teachers to help students understand the reason for an act and the true meaning of it from the very beginning. In the vocational school the school might pick only students with a certain understanding and personality, so perhaps using similar techniques to help students is good, but not always IMO. So I would also want teachers to understand students better (which I think most do) AND use that to help a student!

I'm wondering what professions do your pre-vocational, vocational ballet students or children, or yourself think would pursue if unable to dance professionally or when retiring? For me as a female want to be classical ballet dancer I think it would be joining the military, writing or acting (though I don't think there's a good chance at all that I can act without going to drama school! :-( ) I think joining the military because I believe it is very similar to ballet especially the discipline, and if I can't get a job at 16-19 but can later, it will be good preparation in terms of discipline! But I've heard it is a long term commitment and also that it is not easy to stay in the job. Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me, the two together? I'd like to write because when I feel like it I like to write a lot, especially about ballet. And it allows you to be creative, and also become 'lost' in a story the way ballet does. When I don't feel like writing though, I have almost nothing I want to write. Acting because I really do like to act - and drama is my favorite subject! Or maybe PE is, or maybe they're the same. I get better grades in Drama, but I still do like PE despite not really getting good grades. And acting also lets you become 'lost' in a story like writing and ballet - and in Drama you yourself ARE the character! I always enjoy acting itself even if I don't always enjoy Drama as a subject in school - usually I do! So enjoyment is one of the reasons for acting. Acting also often allows you to express yourself through your body - like ballet - and I think I like the physical aspect of acting/Drama the best! I think I'd enjoy acting the most. I don't know about the salary of any jobs I listed - I presume that actresses make very little, and I would need to find the time and motivation to do a side job! Same with ballet - I have almost no idea how I'm going to be able to do a side job. Maybe stop sleeping, eating, bathing etc - but then I'd have absolutely no energy for the demands of ballet, and feel really horrible! Other than the jobs I listed I don't know any other job - except being a volunteer, but - I don't know how to explain why that's not really practical. I have just thought of costume maker too! Curious as to what others think? I know that this post is long, but I wanted to know the possible options for a career other than ballet, for someone who absolutely loves ballet and can't imagine doing any other job other than very few.