DancingtoDance Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I am sorry if this is in the wrong place and if so, (to the moderators) please move it. I am really confused. Is 'ballerina' short for prima ballerina assoluta or the title given to a female principal ballet dancer in a company or a term used to refer to all female ballet dancers (in the context of the UK)? Does it differ depending on where you live? Thank you to anyone who can help. Edited March 11, 2015 by DancingtoDance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think decades ago the term Ballerina referred solely to a female Principal Dancer in a company. The one who danced the lead role. Sadly,in my opinion,the term now seems to be used by ballet students to describe themselves,simply because they take ballet lessons ! I had a heated debate with an American teenage girl about this on Twitter a few years ago. She was all of 14 and calling herself a Ballerina. It made me cringe slightly. Then she told me this was the exact term her ballet teacher used to describe all her students. Words failed me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Depends where you are in the world - it comes from Italian for female dancer and Spanish has a similar word. So it tends to be used as a rank in mainly English speaking countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Pigeons Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 This is a very interesting topic on a highly subjective subject. I agree with you that it is common in the UK to refer to any female ballet dancer but I personally think they have to be far more special to award that title. To me a ballerina need not be a principal but their quality of performance, rather than just technique, puts them above the rest. Also, you can have sub classes; dramatic, romantic or classical being three examples. Again, speaking personally, there is a difference between being a ballerina and a star. I have seen three great ballerinas who were all of these things; Fonteyn, Makarova and Guillem. Each of them brought some extra special to their performances. Seymour was a dramatic ballerina without peer and Rojo was definitely in the same vein, ditto Marcia Haydee. However, I am not sure I would have been that convinced by any of them as Aurora. Sibley and Park were great Auroras but I doubt they would ever have attempted Anastasia. In recent years I would have classed Durante and Yoshida as ballerinas but not necessarily stars. Conversely I viewed Bussell as an utter star but not a ballerina. Again, for me, two ballerinas were Marion Tait and Galina Samsova for the sheer intelligence of their performances. Not every one would agree with me but that was just my reaction to them. Another one would be Ambra Vallo with Nina Ananiashvilli whom I just adored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just to add. On You Tube there is a documentary called A Day In The Life Of A Ballerina. It follows the day of a Royal Ballet Soloist,I think she is. Clearly then the Royal think "Ballerina" should be the proper title for all female professional ballet dancers. Which I find a little weird of them,to be honest. I got the feeling they had used this "Ballerina" title to pull in more general population viewers who were unfamiliar with the ins and outs of Ballet; the type of people who might use the term Ballerina to describe all female ballet dancers,regardless of rank. I might be mistaken though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I always think of it as a ballet dancer (female) for whom other ballet dancers hold in high regard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I've always regarded it as a rank like QC in the law except that it is accorded by acclamation rather than conferred by the state, Having said that, I seem to remember that HM created Margot Fonteyn prima ballerina assoluta. Ballerinas tend to be principals of major companies like the Royal Ballet and American Ballet Theatre though I would include outstanding dancers in other companies like Martha Leebolt and Eve Mutso among their number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melody Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I think ballerina is any ballet dancer dancing professionally; prima ballerina is a principal dancer in a major company; prima ballerina assoluta is a very specific title bestowed on a very few ballerinas over the last century or so. I wouldn't have a problem with a Royal Ballet or ENB corps member referring to herself as a ballerina. For a 14-year-old student to call herself a ballerina is a bit idiotic unless she's dancing professionally. She's no more a ballerina than a high-school student in the drama society is an actress or a law student is a lawyer. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I agree with Melody! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingtoDance Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Thank you all for your replies. It seems the general opinion is either 'ballerina' is used as a rank or that it is used to refer to all female dancers in a company. But I think outside of the UK 'ballerina' is reserved for a female principal or a prima ballerina assoluta. I find the idea of a 'ballerina' describing a dancer who holds greater quality than other dancers interesting..... personally I think the word 'ballerina' sounds more special. But I don't get the 'difference' between a 'ballerina' and a 'star'.... As for 'The Day in the Life of a Ballerina', I found the video on YouTube (I only watched the first few minutes) and saw that the soloist didn't refer to herself as a 'ballerina' but a 'ballet dancer', so perhaps The Royal Ballet did indeed use the title to attract more general population. But I'm not sure that it is likely that is the case... and I think the audience would be equally attracted to a title that says 'A Day in the Life of a Ballet Dancer'. If that was actually the case, I would think it totally unnecessary and a bit silly. In any case I prefer to call ballet dancers in general 'ballet dancers' and reserve the term 'ballerina' for a Prima Ballerina Assoluta. I shall confess that I am still rather confused but thank you all for replying. It is greatly appreciated. Edited March 12, 2015 by DancingtoDance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Ballerina and female dancer are not interchangeable terms as far as I am concerned. I always associate the word ballerina with a female dancer who shows supreme artistry in the nineteenth century classics so while Sibley definitely was a ballerina as were Fonteyn,Markova,Evdokimova,Beriosova,Ulanova and Ananaishvilli for example,Seymour and Haydee were not. They were two of the greatest dramatic dancers that I have ever seen but they were not classical ballerinas. Seymour's classical work was interesting but it was not exemplary by which I mean you would not have held her Aurora or her Odette/Odile out as providing examples of the perfection of classical ballet. I am not talking about technique but that indefinable something extra that a true ballerina brings to a performance. One brings effortless elegance and grace another makes you see a ballet with which you are familiar as if it was a new work, not because they have distorted anything musically or altered the steps in any way but simply through the quality of the movement. At the time I saw it I thought that Park's Aurora was very good. She was musical; she did not distort the score in order to set records for the duration of her balances; she had technique to spare which she used in the service of the choreographer rather than dancing the choreography as if it was merely an excuse to display technique but when it came to Swan Lake I always found her Odette/Odile lacked something. She was not really a Swan Queen more a Swan Princess.If we saw her Aurora today I would no doubt be far more enthusiastic about it than I was then but I suspect that a lot of people would complain that her Rose adagio was not danced brilliantly enough because it was not danced as a simple display piece but as an integral part of the ballet as a whole.As a result it was not subject to the distortions that seem to crept into the Royal's Sleeping Beauty in recent years. I came across a definition of a ballerina which I rather like but I have no idea who came up with it originally.A ballerina is someone who can do everything but has the taste not to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Coming as I do from a linguistics heritage.... usage dictates current meaning, which is why word meanings shift over time. You can't impose a meaning on a word unless you are in a position to control it - the most you can do is say 'for me it means...'. Looking at the big dictionaries reinforces the view distilled from comments here that there are two usages, hence two meanings. One is simply a female ballet dancer, with some saying further 'in a company' or 'professional'. The other is a or the leading female dancer in a company, with one or two referring to 'classical'. Context then tells you which to use or which is meant - but there's no point getting sniffy if someone refers to a corps member in a regional company as a ballerina when your personal tendency is to use it in an 'assoluta' sense; both are correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAB Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I seem to remember that Park herself didn't consider O/O to be her role and was able to avoid it for some years but eventually the wishes of management prevailed. She wasn't that bad in the role though and probably danced it a lot better than those today as she never distorted the music. Very few dancers know how to dance Swan lake, it's become a ballet I avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLOSS Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I strongly suspect that one of the greatest hurdles that Park had to overcome with the "regulars" was that she was so closely associated with the Neapolitan dance.I recall one lady whose response to the news that Park was to dance Swan Lake with Nureyev was "But she's a soubrette !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I incline towards FLOSS's view though I would have included Seymour and Haydée. I think our point of disagreement is the condition that the dancer must show supreme artistry in the 19th century classics whereas I would include someone who shows outstanding artistry in any ballet. I am glad we agree about Sibley though I remember her Dorabella and other Ashton ballets with particular affection. I also remember Merle Park and I would have no hesitation in describing her as a ballerina. I saw her in most of the Royal Ballet's repertoire including including the Petipa ballets but I think I enjoyed her Lise best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 This is interesting - I've always been fascinated by language and the way common usage changes over time - I suspect that to the 'person in the street' the word ballerina means a female ballet dancer. They would probably not distinguish between the different ranks in the way that it is being discussed on here; in much the same way as most people would call a white horse white, yet equestrian people would always describe it as a grey. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Exactly taxi! And very good post Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I asked DD yesterday what she thought, and she said that to her it means 'from soloist upwards'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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