vocational exams for full time training

[Fizzyliz]

Hi,

DD is 14 (15 in summer). She’s a SB and RBS associate, and wants to pursue full time training.

She loves her “regular” dance school and has built strong friendships and has progressed steadily. However, as she is becoming increasingly serious about ballet, we are questioning the importance of graded or vocational exams.

She has just taken her G5 and intermediate exams and passed both with distinction. From hearing from others, we think that if she were with a different school she would probably be doing higher levels… does the level you get to in graded/vocational exams have huge importance when applying for full time training? Should she be looking to get to a certain level by the time she is hoping to start full time training at age 17? Or will schools be looking for their own specific qualities and not so much on vocational level?

[Dancing unicorn]

I personally would say she’s about right! If you say she’s just passed her intermediate, then she must be working on her Advanced 1 sylabus (whichever sylabus it is!!). So therefore she should be at least ready or passed that grade by the time she comes to audition at 16! Hope that makes sense 🫣

Edited May 4 by Dancing unicorn

[Ballet Saga]

Agree with above. She’s at the right level. Vocational schools don’t expect more than intermediate by year 11. Plus it doesn’t really matter anyway. What matters is how she dances at the audition, that’s what they will be judging her on. But it’s handy to have your intermediate I would say. 

[Ruby Foo]

I would say that most auditions will be around intermediate level and possibly inter/ advanced 1 for a couple of schools. They are looking for physical suitability and really good, solid technique, plus musicality and performance. They are not interested in candidates being super advanced. Sounds like she'll be at a perfect level to showcase those things. 

[glowlight]

If your question is do you need to actually take the exams to get a place at vocational school, I believe the answer is no. As other posters have said, most vocational schools will be expecting candidates to be working at Intermediate level or above (I think Central used to say that on their website, not sure if they still do). For us it was tricky to find classes at an appropriate level which weren't syllabus classes, outside associate schemes.

[Dancer20]

The positive of taking higher exams is the UCAS points that come with them. Some upper schools offer degree courses in the first year and you will need UCAS points for these courses. Unfortunately, if you go away at 16 you will most likely only have GCSE’s which do not qualify for UCAS points. 

[Pas de Quatre]

Be careful with UCAS points, it can be a red herring. Not many Drama or Dance courses accept them. There was a discussion on a previous thread.

[Ballet Saga]

2 hours ago, Dancer20 said:

The positive of taking higher exams is the UCAS points that come with them. Some upper schools offer degree courses in the first year and you will need UCAS points for these courses. Unfortunately, if you go away at 16 you will most likely only have GCSE’s which do not qualify for UCAS points. 

In all the auditions my child was not once asked about having any UCAS points 

[WhereToNow]

My DD successfully auditioned for yr10 without any exams behind her.  Same again for Upper School.

[Doing Dance 1]

This previous thread has some good discussion. 
 

 

[Swanwings]

The degree courses at RCS and Central do not require UCAS points.  DD wasnt asked about exams either. Sounds like shes doing fine @Fizzyliz

[Northballetmum]

I don’t think it necessarily matters for the audition but it might be worth asking dancers at the schools your DD wants to apply to what level they were at when they started and how they found the training in their 1st year. The audition will look for potential but try to think beyond that to how the first year will go and the standard / level the dancers are all at at that particular school when they start.

[taxi4ballet]

The main thing to remember is that the international audition candidates for some upper schools will be dancing at the equivalent of ADV2 +, particularly for RBS and ENBS entry, and some may well have competed in the likes of YAGP and Prix de Lausanne already. Those two schools are exceptionally difficult to get into - you are competing with some of the best in the world for places. Don't underestimate what they are looking for. 

 

The prelim auditions for most schools will contain work at around Inter/Adv1 level. It's a few years since dd did hers, but it can't have changed all that much.

 

[Ruby Foo]

2 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

The main thing to remember is that the international audition candidates for some upper schools will be dancing at the equivalent of ADV2 +, particularly for RBS and ENBS entry, and some may well have competed in the likes of YAGP and Prix de Lausanne already. Those two schools are exceptionally difficult to get into - you are competing with some of the best in the world for places. Don't underestimate what they are looking for. 

 

The prelim auditions for most schools will contain work at around Inter/Adv1 level. It's a few years since dd did hers, but it can't have changed all that much.

 

 

This is right. Most of the international students in 1st year RBS upper school are already at professional level, bar a bit of glossing.

[Lifeafterballet]

But let’s not forget the appeal of a project. Raw, natural talent with no exams, UCAS and social media following. 

[PrancingMum]

16 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

The main thing to remember is that the international audition candidates for some upper schools will be dancing at the equivalent of ADV2 +, particularly for RBS and ENBS entry, and some may well have competed in the likes of YAGP and Prix de Lausanne already. Those two schools are exceptionally difficult to get into - you are competing with some of the best in the world for places. Don't underestimate what they are looking for. 

 

The prelim auditions for most schools will contain work at around Inter/Adv1 level. It's a few years since dd did hers, but it can't have changed all that much.

 

Add Elm to this list - a few join having done Adv2 and with YAGP experience.

[Ballet Saga]

46 minutes ago, PrancingMum said:

Add Elm to this list - a few join having done Adv2 and with YAGP experience.

 

17 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

The main thing to remember is that the international audition candidates for some upper schools will be dancing at the equivalent of ADV2 +, particularly for RBS and ENBS entry, and some may well have competed in the likes of YAGP and Prix de Lausanne already. Those two schools are exceptionally difficult to get into - you are competing with some of the best in the world for places. Don't underestimate what they are looking for. 

 

The prelim auditions for most schools will contain work at around Inter/Adv1 level. It's a few years since dd did hers, but it can't have changed all that much.

 

My son has recently done all of these finals (including Elmhurst) and he said ENBS was the hardest (but then again they only did one round this year). 
 

It’s really hard when it comes to exams as they don’t mark you on physique or what a particular school is looking for. 
 

Rather than exams achieved I would be concentrating on technique. 

My son only ever took his intermediate. But he has worked extremely hard over the last couple of years perfecting his technique and that’s what has done him well, not exams. 
 

 

[Kerfuffle]

Another thing to bear in mind  is that ENBS/RBS tend to  give out some places during the year to competition winners and through short term scholarships so there aren’t the full 15 places available even at audition time. 

[taxi4ballet]

17 hours ago, Lifeafterballet said:

But let’s not forget the appeal of a project. Raw, natural talent with no exams, UCAS and social media following. 

That can work sometimes, they will occasionally take young male dancers with raw talent and potential, but they don't need to do that with girls, they are spoilt for choice with the ones who are already working at the advanced level they want.

 

And as someone says, it is not to do with the exams you have actually taken, it is the level you are working at, and we just use the grades as a handy description.

[Lifeafterballet]

3 hours ago, PrancingMum said:

Add Elm to this list - a few join having done Adv2 and with YAGP experience.

With the amount of summer intensive scholarships given out at YAGP finals by Robert Parker, there will be more international students joining the full time program I think.

This isn’t a bad thing. Cash payers keep the school afloat so they can offer MDS and DaDa places to U.K. dancers. 
No school, no training. Their contribution is a necessity. 

 

[Lifeafterballet]

4 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

That can work sometimes, they will occasionally take young male dancers with raw talent and potential, but they don't need to do that with girls, they are spoilt for choice with the ones who are already working at the advanced level they want.

 

I believe that vocational schools get bored with their full time and associate students and are always on the look out for a shiny new replacement. 
In my experience, something gets lost in the journey of ballet training. The light in the pupils eyes fade. I’ve watched it over an 8 year period. Worn down, plagued with injury and fear. 
Then at US auditions, along comes a confident non vocational dancer with a “fire in their belly” and in they go. 
Im not a huge fan of lower schools. I wish we had been advised of the options before letting our daughter go to ballet school at 11. We would have waited and revisited training full time at 16. 
My son’s highest RAD exam was Intermediate before US. They aren’t a necessity, just a guide as previously mentioned. 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

1 hour ago, Lifeafterballet said:

I believe that vocational schools get bored with their full time and associate students and are always on the look out for a shiny new replacement. 
I

There is definitely truth to this I think. I actually think that sometimes being in a school’s ‘system’ (for example, associates) can sometimes work against someone. My DD says that she often thinks it’s better rocking up to auditions as an “unknown entity” so that the panel doesn’t have any pre-conceived notions about you.  On another thread I posed the question not many ask , that of hard numbers, and not many could reply directly. I don’t question the benefits of associates, just the fact that if it’s a school’s scheme surely it should count for something towards getting a place into the school that runs it especially since the marketing material always highlight being trained in that school’s ways and system. 
 

I don’t think the exams per se count for much when applying for schools. A lot of forms including for the top summer intensives ask for the last exam taken but I doubt it’s ever a determining factor. Half the time I don’t even complete this section as I can never remember what date my DD took her last exam, or even where I kept her certificates. Plus, the so called top vocational upper schools are full of international students some of whom haven’t taken any of the vocational grades most commonly taken here. I think it’s a good gauge of level, one that can be objectively evidenced by a certificate, but my DD has benefited most from non-syllabus classes where she had to expect the unexpected and adapt to certain teachers’ styles and preferences of teaching.

[glowlight]

In my mind the main advantage with associate schemes is they give the home based young dancer the opportunity to train at a higher level than might otherwise be possible, with a wider variety of teachers, and with other students at a similar level. It shouldn't be seen as an entry point into the upper school of the associated school, but it should help the dancer get to a level where they might catch the eye of at least one director when they are auditioning for upper school. We should remember that the movement from lower school to upper school within the same establishment is no where near guaranteed, so we can't expect it to be for associates.