Swanwings Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Does anyone know what has happened to this company? Are they still performing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Reportedly went bust a few years ago, according to this: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 They closed down completely when COVID hit. I met one of the young dancers left with nothing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Real shame as they were a worthy company touring traditional ballet to suburban theatres. Our local theatre would sell well when they visited & it was a joy to watch many very young children getting their first experience of seeing live ballet alongside groups of elders from care homes enjoying a night out. What I didn’t like was the snobby attitude of some ‘serious ballet audience goers’ who were sniffy & sometimes downright rude about lack of live music/sets & costume quality or standard of dancers….they complete missed the point…. VFB were a niche provider with a relevant offering. I think they were a UK based company? So presumably paying a living wage to its company dancers & crew? And who are now offering traditional classical ballets to provincial theatres up & down the UK? Well, mostly it seems to be companies operating out of Eastern European admin bases who I have in good authority do not pay any decent wage level to their dancers recruited from all over. I expect they pay to book the theatres & take the box office sales. And quite rightly audiences pay reasonable price for seats…. But perhaps far too little of this money is making its way to employ dancers & much of the ticket sales are profits for the company owners…. I’m not against money being made - I’m all for ballet being a commercial success! But I am also a believer in fair pay & think that ‘overseas touring’ companies should honour the pay structures & working condition laws of host countries. I am happy to be corrected but have heard of ‘wages’ to dancers being along the lines of £40 per show with no money on days with no performances. Yes, travel & accommodation may well also be included but it is still by no means a living wage for any person. I am very happy to be proved wrong & also I do not imply this is the case for ALL touring companies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I don’t believe VFB company members were as well looked after as company members in other UK based companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 As far as I know VFB weren't receiving any funding, and survived purely on income from tickets sales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 5 hours ago, Jan McNulty said: I don’t believe VFB company members were as well looked after as company members in other UK based companies. I guess there will always be tiers of pay as in many industries… but I would be interested to know the pay/working conditions for VFB & how they compared with that gold standard 52 weeks a year PAYE with benefits contract I imagine dancers with companies that have arts council funding are on…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I knew a dancer who was with them for a year. No help if injured. Responsibility for keeping your costumes in order. Of course, a much more intensive touring schedule with mostly one-nighters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Devernay-Laurence Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 01/03/2024 at 22:55, Pas de Quatre said: As far as I know VFB weren't receiving any funding, and survived purely on income from tickets sales. This highlights one of our daily conversation at our HQ. Please except ROH from the following questions and discoveries on the table, as the model is completely different. -- Tickets in the UK have a face value, and a true value. Without a subsidy on the ticket price somewhere, independent start ups and self funded companies (like mine!) are finding that their True Value ticket prices are received as high, and can't compete with other organisations dominating the landscape that can comfortably foot the bill with Tax Payer money, and present a Face Value as low as £15 for a world class dance experience. But devaluing the Face Value does not actually help the True Value of anything in the market, and longer term damages it considerably. Simultaneously, those venues receiving a subsidy will approach start ups and independent companies as cash cows to be milked - without guilt or a thought for what those companies could actually do to the future of their venue, for audience building and for fair competition growth in the sector. The majority of our home dance companies and venues are building quite the opposite of a sustainable ecology, and instead opting to remain insular - resulting in a stranglehold on programming and an absence of new players - from independent choreographers to fully fledged non-gov-funded companies - having to navigate conversations where venues are not comfortable with the associated risks in staging them, are seeking to profit in ways they normally are unable to, while maintaining all the data and ticketing benefits and even going so far as to publicly label events as "Guest Events / Not an Official Programmed Event" right across the productions digital poster on their websites. For those in Marketing this is a nightmare to counter, with new start-ups and independent companies trying to eliminate the nagging doubt that their performances are just as worthy of a platform as any. And then there is the Access argument associated with the True Value, and this is of course where I turn to... premiere league football! Just like Classical Ballet, players have devoted their whole youth to their craft - BUT UNLIKE DANCE - graduate into a healthy ecology where there are a raft of well paying jobs from lower leagues to the top gig. If you look at football, where a ticket can cost in excess of £160 for a plastic seat on concrete, this multi billion dollar industry not only takes care of its players, its managers and its teams, but also provides its fans access through a constant access to media, some of the best funded inclusive youth programmes in the world, and with opportunities to interact with the sport regardless of means, background or ability. When was the last time a UK school didn't come with 2 nets and a ball...? And yet how many have a Ballet Barre...? With many Government funded bodies actively avoiding showing a profit for fear of then losing funding, there is little to no space for those who remain unfunded and are trying to build their trade the old fashioned way - with bums on seats and an invested audience who feel connected to the brand, the experience and to the artists on stage. Dance is pricing itself out of the market, and the next generation of dance entrepreneurs are facing the consequences. Regardless of the size of their fanbase, the loss of companies like Vienna Festival Ballet are felt by all those who had ever bought a ticket to their show, and the many people who became a part of their independently funded ecology. -- Just some thoughts! Jamiel Devernay-Laurence www.BalletNights.com 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) We are all hoping that London City Ballet will fill the VFB void (for both audience and dancers) and that it can survive. I don’t know if they have govt funding as well as private. Ticket prices at Sadlers for LCB are £15-£65 which seems reasonable to me … better value than the £70 top price for the poor quality Varna International Ballet recently. And, crucially, London City Ballet has Alina Cojocaru as its guest in the shows at Sadlers. Edited March 3 by FionaM 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Very well put Jamiel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeralds Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 54 minutes ago, FionaM said: We are all hoping that London City Ballet will fill the VFB void (for both audience and dancers) and that it can survive. I don’t know if they have govt funding as well as private. Ticket prices at Sadlers for LCB are £15-£65 which seems reasonable to me … better value than the £70 top price for the poor quality Varna International Ballet recently. And, crucially, London City Ballet has Alina Cojocaru as its guest in the shows at Sadlers. In the newspaper articles where LCB's Christopher Marney was interviewed, he's stated that London City Ballet are not receiving any government (=taxpayer) subsidy at all. They do have a private sponsor who is currently giving them funding to hire dancers, stage ballets, rent studio space etc etc. Sadler's Wells Theatre itself is partly subsidised by the taxpayer (Arts Council, Islington tax payers etc) hence might be able to offer cheaper rates than a non-subsidised theatre space. In addition, they also have donations that enable them to sponsor some new or fledgling groups they have chosen to support. I don't know what the size of this support is - eg if it's only £500 then obviously that's of limited help but still better than nothing; if it's £5000 or more that's obviously helpful for the company. That said, I believe most of the theatres visited by small companies such as VFB are subsidised to some degree. However the theatre management can choose to charge companies high rates to rent if they wish to of course. Companies like VFB have actually always been in precarious situations and truth be told it doesn't take much nowadays for smaller companies like Northern Ballet, Scottish Ballet or BRB to be pushed into that situation also, seeing what Arts Council England have done to ENO- despite its critically acclaimed productions, numerous awards, and reputation in the opera world for training and giving rising British talent their big breaks. I just forfeited a chance to attend the Manon double show day this weekend to support BRB and NB financially instead, as the thought of more ballet companies being pushed to the brink was unthinkable. Ultimately, though, any company (unless it is the size of RB or the Paris Opera or La Scala) nowadays needs leadership that is resourceful, diligent and creative to survive - artists as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 @Jamiel Devernay-Laurence thank you for your explanation of true vs fair value. I remember having a similar discussion here in 2021 about the Kobborg/Cojocaru/Polunin R&J at RAH when some here expressed surprise at those ticket prices. Some wished to wait for discounts (which didn’t happen as the show was sold out despite COVID playing up.) The true cost of that show would have been even higher if there had been a live orchestra. Further highlighting the subsidy (from govt and sponsors) that is inherent in ROH and Sadlers Wells shows. I hadn’t made the link that those subsidies make it prohibitive for new troupes to perform without similar financial support, as they cannot price tickets at their true cost. Perhaps we the audience are going to have to recalibrate how much we are prepared to spend on performing arts now that prices are rising (and yet are still subsidised at the main dance venues). We have a choice, either spend as before (but go less often, or choose cheaper seats if possible), OR, decide to spend more as a percentage of income. Yikes! Some are already having to spend less due to the current economic climate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Devernay-Laurence Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 18 hours ago, Emeralds said: In the newspaper articles where LCB's Christopher Marney was interviewed, he's stated that London City Ballet are not receiving any government (=taxpayer) subsidy at all. They do have a private sponsor who is currently giving them funding to hire dancers, stage ballets, rent studio space etc etc. Sadler's Wells Theatre itself is partly subsidised by the taxpayer (Arts Council, Islington tax payers etc) hence might be able to offer cheaper rates than a non-subsidised theatre space. In addition, they also have donations that enable them to sponsor some new or fledgling groups they have chosen to support. I don't know what the size of this support is - eg if it's only £500 then obviously that's of limited help but still better than nothing; if it's £5000 or more that's obviously helpful for the company. That said, I believe most of the theatres visited by small companies such as VFB are subsidised to some degree. However the theatre management can choose to charge companies high rates to rent if they wish to of course. Companies like VFB have actually always been in precarious situations and truth be told it doesn't take much nowadays for smaller companies like Northern Ballet, Scottish Ballet or BRB to be pushed into that situation also, seeing what Arts Council England have done to ENO- despite its critically acclaimed productions, numerous awards, and reputation in the opera world for training and giving rising British talent their big breaks. I just forfeited a chance to attend the Manon double show day this weekend to support BRB and NB financially instead, as the thought of more ballet companies being pushed to the brink was unthinkable. Ultimately, though, any company (unless it is the size of RB or the Paris Opera or La Scala) nowadays needs leadership that is resourceful, diligent and creative to survive - artists as well. 12 hours ago, FionaM said: @Jamiel Devernay-Laurence thank you for your explanation of true vs fair value. I remember having a similar discussion here in 2021 about the Kobborg/Cojocaru/Polunin R&J at RAH when some here expressed surprise at those ticket prices. Some wished to wait for discounts (which didn’t happen as the show was sold out despite COVID playing up.) The true cost of that show would have been even higher if there had been a live orchestra. Further highlighting the subsidy (from govt and sponsors) that is inherent in ROH and Sadlers Wells shows. I hadn’t made the link that those subsidies make it prohibitive for new troupes to perform without similar financial support, as they cannot price tickets at their true cost. Perhaps we the audience are going to have to recalibrate how much we are prepared to spend on performing arts now that prices are rising (and yet are still subsidised at the main dance venues). We have a choice, either spend as before (but go less often, or choose cheaper seats if possible), OR, decide to spend more as a percentage of income. Yikes! Some are already having to spend less due to the current economic climate. -- A the end of the day the entire sector will have to face these questions at some point, as BRB will be with some of their support being pulled and as ENO have had to pivot on quite quickly. Without taking any positions politically, I would also point out that it highly unlikely that a Starmer government would either freeze or increate ACE funding, and if anything the outlook is the other way entirely. New Adventures have proven the exception to the rule, running a successful commercial model in dance, and Matthew Bourne remains the inspiring figure to the next generation of dance entrepreneurs, and to me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Devernay-Laurence Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 PS. we have a lower ticket price show coming soon, which you can support by coming along! IMAGO by PettClausen-Knight has a UK premiere, and will take place on 26/27 April Use the Code OURSTORY for 15% off! www.BalletNights.com 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Do you know if Imago will be touring the UK at all @Jamiel Devernay-Laurence? Sadly I can't make the London dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pointeperfect Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 03/03/2024 at 18:37, Jamiel Devernay-Laurence said: graduate into a healthy ecology where there are a raft of well paying jobs from lower leagues to the top gig. If you look at football, where a ticket can cost in excess of £160 for a plastic seat on concrete, It’s not stadium ticket prices funding this but TV rights. I’m sure selling out a stadium plus merchandise sales is not a small amount of money but it is far exceeded by money from TV 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Devernay-Laurence Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, Jan McNulty said: Do you know if Imago will be touring the UK at all @Jamiel Devernay-Laurence? Sadly I can't make the London dates. At the moment we are focused on the UK premiere in London, and it will be the demand and response to that show that would dictate another outing in that uniquely Ballet Nights format - however the 2 guys are VERY resourceful, and I believe that they are overlooked by the currently ecology which makes no space for them the way it used to for future greats like an Akram or a Hofesh. Time will tell! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Devernay-Laurence Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, Pointeperfect said: It’s not stadium ticket prices funding this but TV rights. I’m sure selling out a stadium plus merchandise sales is not a small amount of money but it is far exceeded by money from TV I am 100% in agreement. Ballet Nights is focused on the culture of the star, and building a following for each artist on our roster. That is where our Youtube Channel comes in, and why we profile each artists in a Behind The Scenes at great expense to provide the artists with the platform they deserve. Going back to my analysis of Drive to Survive, the driver's to camera interviews are what 'drives' (sorry couldn't resist!) new audience to their preferred contender. You can check out our channel here, and highlights include an exclusive BTS with David Dawson, Reece & Yasmine, Musa Motha, Steven McRae and more: www.youtube.com/@BalletNights 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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