RBS - More good news for Japanese dancers.

[Birdy]

The question of why international students would want to come to RBS if they have good training at home is an interesting one. At least in the US I think a lot of students start looking around and making changes in their later teens. Often smaller schools or non-company affiliated schools have great training, but aren’t the best for getting students “to the finish line.” There are only so many truly exceptional dancers at each school. At some point dancers want to be with the other exceptional dancers instead of always being the best in their class. They may want to go somewhere with more performance opportunities or to a school with more connections in the ballet world. It’s hard to resist the pull of a school where most graduates get contracts to second companies or main companies. Another aspect may be the boarding option. That isn’t found in most countries, so if a student can’t get higher level training where they live and their family can’t move, sending a child to a place with boarding is very appealing. My DD left very good training in the US for very good training in the EU. She identified a place where she thought she’d be a good fit and where they really liked her, knew the way into their company was largely through their junior company, and knew the way into their junior company was largely through their upper school, and made the jump. The odds are still stacked against her, as they are for all dancers, but she is giving it her best shot.

[Dance*is*life]

I have been teaching for 35 years in a large-ish RAD school - not in UK - we teach several dance genres and I'm one of the senior ballet teachers.  We have had quite a few students get accepted for modern dance companies, a few even joined flamenco troupes.  Yet in all those years I've only had about six accepted to the ballet company.   So many of our students have really strong classical technique, but just don't have the right physical attributes for classical.  I know it's the same elsewhere.  Ballet is my great love, but it's  a cruel and frustrating profession..........

[Kate_N]

12 hours ago, Ballet2101 said:

ABT/JKO has the exact same reputation as a very slow boil training approach that is very safe and nurturing, but doesn't always create the dancers that make it into the Professional Training Divisions.  I think this is more common than you may think with the larger schools

 

This chimes with US dancer friends’ experiences with SAB, where they “assess out” annually. I have one acquaintance who is a beautiful dancer (and now talented teacher) but was assessed out from SAB because he was deemed too short for a male dancer. And I know that the Australian Ballet School can be ruthless about assessing out, or requiring a repeated year, and the “pipeline” to the AB is not a given.

 

And you only have to browse our US parallel site to see that parents of dancers in the US are just as concerned about these issues, and also go to some lengths to calculate how many “American-trained” dancers (whatever that means) end up in the leading US flagship companies.  
 

Most of these schools, and the ballet companies are non-profits (a bit like UK charity status).

 

What @Dance*is*lifesays is true: it’s a tough art, and unforgiving, like any pursuit that requires a very rare combination of genetics, facility, and desire for the work.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Kate_N

[richieN]

On 27/02/2023 at 22:19, Ballet_novice said:

Well I think you are assuming that all students are equal. Which is not the case. Do you think that all the children that train for tennis or for football with the best tennis coaches and best junior club end up at the top of tennis or football? These type of careers like ballet are super competitive. And that’s how schools and companies remains at the top of their league. 
 

similarly not all top university students graduates with A+ but we certainly don’t think Harvard Oxford or Cambridge cannot teach. Do we? 

 Yes - generally the best coaches get the best results. Its clear up and down the country, and in every sport. As for creativity - ballet is the least subjective of the expressive arts - because there is correct movement, classical lines, timing and turnout. All of which can be measured and achieved. 

And as for Harvard and Oxford etc - they still select on merit, and even they don't kick their students out through the years - that particular honour is reserved for RBS students.

[Kerfuffle]

1 hour ago, richieN said:

 Yes - generally the best coaches get the best results. Its clear up and down the country, and in every sport. As for creativity - ballet is the least subjective of the expressive arts - because there is correct movement, classical lines, timing and turnout. All of which can be measured and achieved. 

And as for Harvard and Oxford etc - they still select on merit, and even they don't kick their students out through the years - that particular honour is reserved for RBS students.

Very true that unis and also equivalent arts institutions don’t throw out students at such a rate! 
 

Ballet is subjective so choice of dancers might vary from AD  to AD - eg build, proportions,  hyper mobility and height. Preferably the school has a clear idea of what they like and this should be possible to spot when watching a company/school. It tends to fall to pieces when this certain artistic vision is lost - for example if dancers are randomly chosen from competitions. I think this is part of the problem we are seeing now, based on fads of high leg kicks and pirouettes and less on harder to quantify qualities such as true musicality (not just counting beats) - those story telling elements get lost. 

[Ballet_novice]

On 26/02/2023 at 21:43, WendyC74 said:

It is true that the world is a large and diverse place, with a population of approximately 8 billion people, and that it is important for schools to seek out the best talent from around the globe. However, this does not excuse rejecting existing UK students in favor of fee-paying international students.

While it is understandable that schools may want to attract talented students from other countries, they should not do so at the expense of their existing students, particularly those who have already shown great promise and dedication. It is important to remember that education is a public good and should be accessible to all, regardless of their nationality or ability to pay.

Furthermore, it is worth considering the benefits of nurturing and supporting local talent. By investing in and promoting the potential of UK students, schools like the Royal Ballet School can not only contribute to the development of a thriving national arts scene but also help to showcase the diversity of talent within the UK.

Please note that many Uk students are also full paying as support is family income base. 

[Kerfuffle]

1 hour ago, Ballet_novice said:

Please note that many Uk students are also full paying as support is family income base. 

Are you sure? As far as I can see RBS is very generous in its support of students in comparison to other schools. 

[Ballet_novice]

Yes.

[glowlight]

I think what @Ballet_novice is referring to is that while RBS is in the fortunate position of being able to offer MDS to all students who are eligible for that funding, the thresholds for eligibility for MDS funding mean that many families will actual end up paying some or all of the fees.  

 

Although this data is several years old - you might be interested in the answer to this Freedom of Information request which gives a breakdown of family incomes for MDS recipients at all MDS schools https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/family_income_of_students_in_rec

 

 

[OnTheMove]

1 hour ago, Kerfuffle said:

Are you sure? As far as I can see RBS is very generous in its support of students in comparison to other schools. 

The MDS is a sliding scale so if you earn a certain amount you get no help towards fees and the amount you pay goes down with how much your income is. I don’t know if they offer bursaries, many of the schools do, but they’re not a large percentage to my knowledge. 

[Kerfuffle]

43 minutes ago, OnTheMove said:

The MDS is a sliding scale so if you earn a certain amount you get no help towards fees and the amount you pay goes down with how much your income is. I don’t know if they offer bursaries, many of the schools do, but they’re not a large percentage to my knowledge. 

The MDS is much more generous than the DaDa - the qualifying thresholds are really quite high. I know that it does require some sacrifice from parents but I would imagine that the majority qualify for a fair amount of help. 

[OnTheMove]

27 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

The MDS is much more generous than the DaDa - the qualifying thresholds are really quite high. I know that it does require some sacrifice from parents but I would imagine that the majority qualify for a fair amount of help. 

True. But I was surprised. A low income family may have to still pay a fair amount, and with all the other costs involved it’s never a cheap business having your child at vocational school.