Ballet Trust - has anyone heard of this?

[Dancersdad]

HFBrew, had a chat to DS about the students who have contracts. 3 are with Ballet Theatre UK and were not on the 3 year Diploma course so left Tring at the end of last year. 1 is with the Cape Town Ballet who was on the 3 year Diploma course and is working already and then DS, so although the year group from last year has 5 in employment only 2 of the 3 year Diploma group have got jobs already.

[Nana Lily]

Have to say I am lost and confused by the information, other than some cruise ship companies expect you to pay some upfront expenses, which appear to be quite large, so something to look out for or avoid.

 

NL

[Anna C]

I'm probably being a bit dense, but don't the schools have career advisers of any sort who could advise on the legalities of a contract? Or do the schools not get involved with auditions, contracts etc?

[Dancersdad]

Tring do have someone to help with getting auditions and contracts and very general advice, but I think reading through legal documents and fully understanding the implications is beyond them, as it is for the very vast majority of people. I fortunately did Business and Employment Law as part of my Business Studies degree and had a Dad who was a top lawyer so it sort of comes naturally to me.

 

Good advice:- Join Equity.

 

DS was able to get good solid legal advice for free from people properly qualified to give that advice which was it wasn't lawful in England but unknown in Italy, as well as an offer to help see what could be done about the situation, which reading between the lines sounded like being able to help in someway to getting the money to do the course.

[taxi4ballet]

The new requirement is for all crew members boarding a Costa ship and is as a direct result of the Concordia and Allegra mishaps.

 

Looks like they are now clearly (quite rightly) paranoid about safety, although it seems a bit unreasonable for them to expect potential employees to pay for the training.

 

I think it might well be an 'allowble expense' for income tax purposes though, so you should be able to get some of it back.

[hfbrew]

HFBrew, had a chat to DS about the students who have contracts. 3 are with Ballet Theatre UK and were not on the 3 year Diploma course so left Tring at the end of last year. 1 is with the Cape Town Ballet who was on the 3 year Diploma course and is working already and then DS, so although the year group from last year has 5 in employment only 2 of the 3 year Diploma group have got jobs already.

You may be interested to know that actually those 3 with Ballet Theatre UK are still on the 3 year Diploma course which is why they have all been in school during any time off in order to complete assessments etc so that the diploma could be completed. They also have to take part in the end of year show and us parents are still paying fees! So as far as we and the Dance Department are concerned they are definately still students with invitations to leavers drinks in July! There was a bit of a scramble a couple of weeks ago when the final deadline for the diploma written work loomed and I had to venture into his room for a missing file. My DS wrote thousands of words on tour for his final essay.

 

All these three students took part in the 3rd year graduate show at the end of the autumn term and took part in outreach events in the spring term including Move It.

 

But I am not surprised these facts are not generally known, afterall the school hasn't advertised their ballet successes very well, a great shame. And because those who have already got work are not around most of the time it is understandable that the rest of their year don't realise that they are still officially students. Communication is not one of Trings strong points. My Ds didn't get his contract til February by the way.

 

Hope this clarifies things a little.

 

Edited for clarity!

Edited June 18, 2012 by hfbrew

[glowlight]

HFBrew, you are quite right, this kind of thing should have been made clear in the contract. Adding this requirement as an afterthought puts potential employees in a very difficult position.

 

I had a chat with DD about this new requirement from Costa and she was very surprised to hear that Dancersdad's ds had to pay for his safety training. She hasn't heard of this happening with other cruise lines. She was also very surprised to hear how much it cost.

 

Yes, everyone on board has to undergo basic safety training, and I know that she has had to do extra training since the Concordia disaster, but this was paid for by the company.

[hfbrew]

[

Edited June 18, 2012 by hfbrew

[hfbrew]

 

 

All these three students took part in the 3rd year graduate show at the end of the autumn term and took part in outreach events in the spring term including Move It.

 

 

 

Got this fact wrong!! All three did take part in Spring term events but only one made the Grad show. Thought I d better make the correction before someone else did!! Sorry! But the three I am talking about are definately stiil students and are a bit miffed to have so easily been forgotten. They are all back at school next week which will feel very strange. However they are delighted to know that they are now going to be working continously until 2014 at least if they wish

[Pas de Quatre]

It just occured to me that it is quite a delicate position re funding - are these dancers still receiving funding through DADAs although they are now also professional and presumably receiving salaries?

[hfbrew]

Yes. But its not a great salary and they are still liable for the school fees even though they are not often in school at the moment. Lots of students at other places such as RBS also get contracts midway through their training and are in similar positions.If their funding was suddenly withdrawn then the parents would be left with a huge bill if they havent had the time to give a full terms notice. Many companies can't wait until the end of a school year and in this day and age students have to take the jobs if they come up. Also don't forget that a requirement of DaDa is to complete the diploma. And these particular students have worked very hard to get that by attending whenever they can and communication by e-mail. Tring have been excellent in providing long distance support, unlike some institutions who won't let their students even audition whilst in training,Tring is much more realistic about todays job market.

 

Many dance students have to do extra work such as waiting, bar staff, teaching etc to make ends meet even if they are funded. So it is not uncommon for students to have jobs whatever they may be.

 

If funding was withdrawn once a dancing job came up then it kind of defeats the object of funding the best students anyway- schools have to be able to demonstrate that they have chosen those who are employable afterall. And don't forget that the schools will have already received that funding for those students. If they (the students) had to wait until the end of the school year before accepting work then we would have many more unemployed dancers who would then have to wait until the autumn for the next round of auditions.

 

And as Ive already said the students are still liable for fees- I'm paying an awful lot of money for just a few school dinners at the moment! But at least DS can get three weeks worth of training as from next week.

[Dancersdad]

Now for a very little known fact about DaDAs.

 

If a student gives up a DaDA by leaving the school for any reason they do not have to give any notice and the school may not charge the leaving student for the notice period except for one very specific reason. The reason being is that the school has already been paid the money for the schooling up front and they must offer the DaDA to another pupil within the same year. Only if the DaDA is not accepted by any other student may the school then charge for the notice period (fat chance of that ever happing).

 

We only learnt this too late. Completely disallusioned with the school in the first term, we took DS to Central to join in a class to see if he really did have talent or we were just being delusional parents in imagining talent that wasn't there. Central's response was to offer him an immediate place without any further audition. Asking them about a comment that had been made a few years beforehand by his teacher, Graham Fletcher, that "with a lot of hard work he could make the Prix de Lausanne" their response was "without a shadow of doubt".Thinking we would have had to pay a full term's notice of over £9000 or he would have to go through the whole second term before moving (too late to catch up 2 terms work at Central) we very regretfully turned the place down. Central immediately offered him a place in the next academic year without having to go through the audition process. Question answered. DS was definitely very talented and that talent was not being recognised by school if a school like Central were that desperate to get him into their school.

 

In researching DaDAs more fully for the Ballet Trust site I came across one of the conditions for the schools that stated emphatically they were not permitted to charge a notice period fee to a student who left in the middle of a year for any reason unless they had offered the DaDA to other students in the year AND it had been turned down by all of them.

 

Hopefully armed with this snippet of information future parents won't make the mistake we did.

[afab]

Very interesting, thank you Dancersdad!

[Pas de Quatre]

Sorry to hear about your son's problems with his talent being ignored at school. Sadly this seems to have happened to dks of several members of this board, including my own. It felt as though only a few dancers were considered talented and the rest were treated as 2nd class citizens.

[taxi4ballet]

It felt as though only a few dancers were considered talented and the rest were treated as 2nd class citizens.

 

How frustrating...

 

This seems to be quite common in all walks of life, doesn't it?

 

At the age of 7 my dd complained about the teacher at her primary school, saying "some weeks she ignores me completely"!

I spoke to the classroom assistant (a friend of mine) who said that only the gifted handful and the ones who misbehaved go any attention from this particular teacher. The ones in the middle were left to their own devices.

[hfbrew]

Now for a very little known fact about DaDAs.

 

If a student gives up a DaDA by leaving the school for any reason they do not have to give any notice and the school may not charge the leaving student for the notice period except for one very specific reason. The reason being is that the school has already been paid the money for the schooling up front and they must offer the DaDA to another pupil within the same year. Only if the DaDA is not accepted by any other student may the school then charge for the notice period (fat chance of that ever happing).

 

We only learnt this too late. Completely disallusioned with the school in the first term, we took DS to Central to join in a class to see if he really did have talent or we were just being delusional parents in imagining talent that wasn't there. Central's response was to offer him an immediate place without any further audition. Asking them about a comment that had been made a few years beforehand by his teacher, Graham Fletcher, that "with a lot of hard work he could make the Prix de Lausanne" their response was "without a shadow of doubt".Thinking we would have had to pay a full term's notice of over £9000 or he would have to go through the whole second term before moving (too late to catch up 2 terms work at Central) we very regretfully turned the place down. Central immediately offered him a place in the next academic year without having to go through the audition process. Question answered. DS was definitely very talented and that talent was not being recognised by school if a school like Central were that desperate to get him into their school.

 

In researching DaDAs more fully for the Ballet Trust site I came across one of the conditions for the schools that stated emphatically they were not permitted to charge a notice period fee to a student who left in the middle of a year for any reason unless they had offered the DaDA to other students in the year AND it had been turned down by all of them.

 

Hopefully armed with this snippet of information future parents won't make the mistake we did.

Very wise words indeed. I do hope plenty of people read this and realise they do not have to be trapped in a place that hasn't lived up to expectations. I too am sorry to about your DS situation. And so glad that he has secured work nonetheless!

 

It might also be worth knowing that Central will occasionally take students from age 18/19, especially talented young men. Obviously Dancersdad DS won't need this now but others might like to be aware. Obviously once a student has used a DaDa, they can not be awarded another but that doesn't stop them going to places like Central that are funded differently. I know someone who is taking up a place at Rambert having had a DaDa elsewhere but not been happy with the training.

 

I do wish all schools/institutes would take care to give all the students in their care equal opportunities,support and consideration. My ds has experienced one extreme to the other in terms of positive attention during training, we have definately seen both sides of the coin!

 

All schools have their pros and cons, they can not please everyone. But a dance student can only have their training once and if they are really not happy then it pays to see what other opportunities there are.

[Dancersdad]

Pas de Quatre the most frustrating thing was hearing several former Principle Dancers from the Royal Ballet and other world class companies say how incredibly talented he was during the holidays and then have the love of dance knocked out of him within a couple of weeks of returning to school. His participation in the showcase dance shows have been limited to under 3 minutes total in a 2 hour show. He has never been allowed to do pas de deaux performances despite all the girls preferring to dance with him as they feel safe with him (he has only dropped one girl but managed to get underneath her to break her fall - we have witnessed him to hold onto a girl whose heel inadvertently caught him where no man wants to be caught and lowered her gracefully to the floor before collapsing).

 

Oh well in 3 weeks it is all over and he can dance for people who appreciate his talent and want him to dance for them and their audiences.

[Ecarte]

 

Oh well in 3 weeks it is all over and he can dance for people who appreciate his talent and want him to dance for them and their audiences.

 

What strength of character he has shown. Good luck to him and may he get the success and recognition that her so obviously deserves.

 

Hopefully it will be less stressful for you as well. Youcan be justifiably proud of both him and yourself. Good luck

 

[Pas de Quatre]

Dancersdad - I understand completely. My dd was at the same school, same year group and suffered in a similar manner (our dks know each other). She decided to look elsewhere for after A-levels and has now just completed the 1st year at Laban. She is completely happy, feels appreciated and has made loads of progress. Ironically, although Laban is always thought of as mainly contemporary, she reckons she is getting better classical classes and more pointework than at Tring.

[Kitschqueen_1]

Ironically, although Laban is always thought of as mainly contemporary, she reckons she is getting better classical classes and more pointework than at Tring.

 

That's really interesting as Laban is one of the places my dd will be auditioning for at 18. She absolutely loves her ballet but is realistic enough to know she is not a typically classical shape.......long legs, long arms, long neck but also long torso so at 15 she is already 5'9" (there is another thread ongoing about height). She will be thrilled to know that she would be able to continue her ballet to a high standard at a contemporary school other than Rambert. :)

[Dancersdad]

Just when I didn't think it could get any worse, I have just had a long chat with him and his final Dance Show pieces have been reduced from 4 to 1. Mother, who is flying out from South Africa to come and watch Dance Show and graduation, is fuming. Won't have to switch the heating on tonight (it's midwinter here).

 

He is also upset because he just found out his best friend and a couple of other kids got offered a place in the Olympics Opening and Closing Ceremonies quite some time ago and the school effectively stopped them from doing it.

 

Kitschqueen, I am also amazed at his strength of character considering everything he has gone through at the school. Suffice to say Legal action was uppermost in our minds at the worst of those times. I was looking back at the correspondence of the time a few weeks back and quite frankly am amazed we didn't go through with it. Being one of the very few in his year to have a job lined up has given him the strength to fight back and point out that he has a life post school as a Costa dancer whereas their favourites are facing being Costa baristas.

[KathyG]

Just when I didn't think it could get any worse, I have just had a long chat with him and his final Dance Show pieces have been reduced from 4 to 1. Mother, who is flying out from South Africa to come and watch Dance Show and graduation, is fuming.

 

Regarding amount of time on stage in end of year shows my DS reckons he is on for 30 seconds (couldn't be in all of the dance as he was doing his art A level exam according to him) in one show and in the other 30 seconds plus another dance. He was in the ballet but got dropped! He was also fuming as he had attended all rehearsals and was always in it. There are some girls in his year who don't appear to be in the first show at all. Suppose every child can't be in everything but you would expect to at least be in it.

[Pas de Quatre]

Kitschqueen_1, I can't be sure this applies every year, but dd said that in their first week they had "levelling" classes to decide who should be placed where in each of four groups. This was for both contemporary and classical ballet (i.e. people may be in different groups in each discipline.) Those with a strong classical background were placed together for classical work and the teacher asked if they wanted pointework included. This group said yes, I suppose another year they might say no.