NotadanceMa

The movement issue is a really significant issue for my teen. Having to stand still and then attempt to listen and retain info is like a slow death. If no movement is possible, they start to switch off and feel floppy. At home if we need to talk they will bounce on an exercise ball or spin 😁 I will mention this to the SENCO because they need to move to learn. You are right it’s little adjustments that can really make a difference. When my child was younger their first ballet teacher used to let them spin in the corner whilst she taught there was never a problem. It’s often about breaking through old ways of doing things taught as the only way of doing things.

It does have some useful info in it that I intend to share with the school SENCO.

Thankyou for the post @Boys_can_dance I saw you post on a different thread and I believe your boy is in Europe and doing well which is good to hear. My teen is heading I suspect for medication, puberty+ ADHD is not proving a good mix. The school are not hugely supportive of the impact that ADHD has on executive functioning because they just don’t really understand it. My teen however is self-aware and is ok for now, and always told his friendship groups without issue.

It does 😉

This is not our current experience of mobile phone access in a U.K. vocational school. There is no option that children of any year can communicate freely with home during the day. It is allowed if there is a serious problem only, or illness that warrants going home. Up until Y10 the children have access to their phones between 630pm and 9pm. I believe in Y7 it is earlier than this. All boarders in lower school have to hand their phones in at lights out or they are sanctioned by loosing access or time with their phone the following day. Full-time boarding vocational training is in our experience a most peculiar mix of emotionally charged adolescence children in various stages of puberty set up to outdo one another in a highly competitive environment with not enough support for their needs in the way they would be supported by a parent at home. The culture and teaching practice for the most part is all that I have come to expect within this strange closed system. Not healthy, not transparent, not particularly caring, sink or swim mentality. Training young children as though they are in a company. Weird. My child joined at Y9 and it has been a baptism of fire, 18 months in and they most certainly don’t love it, neither do they hate it enough to leave….yet. At Y7 my child would have come home, not that it was ever something I would have allowed aged 11. If I had the money, the time and lived near London (or CAT ballet training, or any city that offered excellent classes) my child would not be boarding, I would find good quality training, maybe RAD, good quality SI’s, associates and follow that path until Upper School auditions. If it was an option to move near the school they would not be boarding now. I use all the optional exeats and go up still most weekends because that’s what my child still needs because they are 14 and need their mum. Being a teenager is as I remember ot one of the hardest times in a child’s life, combine that with full-time vocational training away from home that is a massive emotional ask for any child.

This is an excellent article Thankyou for posting and it’s current.

It can’t come soon enough!! My child reported being bullied by their vocational ballet teacher to a whole array of adults from Head of Dance, to pastoral and medical staff for a full year; and then me raising it as a concern with one of the school Directors. Tumbleweed…… It took two children in their class this year who were upset by the teachers meanness telling member of staff and happened to mention how awful this teacher is being to my child. So nearly 4 terms and suddenly it’s a safeguarding concern for the teacher who has been told to stop bullying the students or will face disciplinary. I doubt there will be a disciplinary, just a slap on the wrist with a ‘don’t do this again.’ Interestingly not one member of staff has asked my child if they are ok. Just disgusting, the whole approach to training and the culture is completely outdated in ballet schools. What I have come to understand not being in the independent school system before is how closed and lacking transparency the whole system is. The policies and procedures read fantastically well, in practice however they are not followed. It will take a new generation of teachers to change the culture, perhaps the current Upper School children and the children training now.

Just to note; I’m not sure why but Tring have the least amount of MDS/Dada funded places available out of RBS/Elmhurst. They do however offer bursaries and part scholarships.

My dancers friend now 17 was accepted at Bolshoi but when Ukraine war happened they left and started at Ellison this September. I knew nothing about this school, it looks fantastic! It all sounds so very exciting what a wonderful experience for your daughter. I really appreciate the information you have shared it’s really informative and helpful.

Thankyou. This is what my dancer (and I) were hoping to hear. They love Balanchine, they have experienced 2 yr Vaganova based training and just loved this as well. They have lost interest in U.K. Intensives as they no longer feel challenged or interested in what is offered. They enjoy their full-time vocational training, but want a new experience like SAB for an Intensive, and they want to see what it’s like outside the U.K. Just need a successful audition video 🤞

Really helpful thankyou. can you say how the students downtime is managed?

Has your dancer attended the SI and if so what did they think? I’m more interested in content of the course and the quality of teaching etc than the practicalities, although Thankyou for your response.

My dancer loves the ‘spiky hands!’ 😁

I just wanted to add that if your child is in crisis (feeling overwhelmed and wants anonymity or to offload to a listening ear) or any child for that matter the Samaritans are amazing. I’m talking about perhaps Y10/11/Upper Schools, they have a wonderful Self-Help app which can be very useful for an overwhelmed teenager in the middle of the night. I know the usual association for Samaritans is suicide and domestic violence, but they offer a listening ear for so much more, and support for absolutely anything 24/7 365 days and it is free, immediate and confidential. ❤️

I am looking for some valuable lived experience with ballet dancers (and parents)in training or in companies who have ADHD. Please PM if you don’t want to talk too publicly. My teen is unmedicated ADHD, and currently manages well within the tightly structured environment of vocational training. The school is aware and very good indeed after some guidance from me. 😉 I am interested in how your child experiences their condition as an older dancer in training and/or as a member of a company. We have met a rather large number of children along the way, and most have decided not to disclose the condition as they dance along their ballet journey. For the most part I am interested in any and all experiences. Information is power. I have posted about School of American Ballet in a separate post and I notice that the American schools are in my experience much more (at least in their prospectus and on the phone) inclusive, transparent and forward thinking than the U.K. This of course may not be born out in reality.

I was wondering whether anyone here has a child that has attended this SI. I am interested in how your child found it (not in comparison stylistically) compared against training standards and timetables of day ENBS/RBS SI Y10/11. Is it worth doing if accepted and if so why, what does it offer that perhaps the U.K. SI’s might not and what does it lack if anything?

Hello all Just a quick bit of info for all those deliberations and discussions and those yet to deliberate about professional photos for intensives etc Below is a screw grab from Emma Northmore and RBS guidelines for photos. Personally We have never used professional photos, just camera phone in our lounge, one year school hall with help from dance teacher. My child has been successful for every intensive they have applied for from Y6 now Y10. It really isn’t about the photo. And some of the photos we have submitted have been horrendous 😁

I’m not sure there ever was ‘a policy’ as such as they certainly do give reasons. My child’s ballet teacher was given reasons 3 yrs ago from Mark Annear. It has always been given to the child’s main dance teacher, not the parent.

This is always offered up as a defence. Oh but footballers pay, oh but football tickets and yes they are expensive however it is a different conversation, and it is not the same. And no football is not elitist. I do love the delicate nuanced defence of the ticket prices hike and ticket prices per se that ROH offers, it’s like a defence of the Emperor’s New Clothes. A defence against elitism and exclusivity is not ‘I can stand, I can buy a cheap ticket,’ it’s why you or anyone should have to. ROH, I checked, ticket prices overall are the most expensive in the world compared to other same type venues in the arts (not football). No debate, no argument, no discussion changes what this represents for me and always has.

Interest on the loans are very low and they have a 20 year period to pay it back with a four year window before repayments start. ROH said that they are hoping to reach ‘all ages from all backgrounds’ with their new exciting program. 😂 Honestly what planet are they living on??? I understand the dismay on here about the price hikes, but the ticket pricing at ROH has always excluded IME anyone with a low income always. It is exclusive and elitist. I once bought birthday seats (the cheapest seats) for my child and I to see a ballet right up in the gods. We left at the interval because it was so disorientating a position to view from. On getting our coats I was asked why we were leaving and told them; only to be told the tickets we bought were really only tickets for ‘listening’ to the ballet, not watching. Never have I heard such utter elitist nonsense; ‘listening tickets!!!!!’ My opinion will not be a popular one, but ROH is the last bastion of everything that is wrong with the arts. It needs addressing and it needs addressing quickly. The ticket pricing excludes the majority of the public, and yes there are concessions for job seekers (or there were, but they seem to have disappeared and for people with disabilities (don’t get me started on the hoops ROH make you jump through to verify your disability and yes it is completely different to any other theatre access scheme). And of course the rigmarole of trying to get one of the elusive ‘cheaper tickets’ that are released. It feels like the thinking behind this is, let’s just make it as hard as we possibly can for people who have less money to access a ticket, let them scrabble for them. Yuck! I always thought it was funny that my child could be trained by the RBS but could never watch them perform. Needs to change, but of course it won’t. Thank goodness for the other wonderful arts venues in London and the U.K. that are accessible and do recognise low and no income households in their ticket pricing.

What a fabulous ensemble!

@rowanit’s so refreshing to hear from a parent of a dancing child that has taken the other route. Even though I understand that for your daughter it wasn’t a route as such just what you happened to decide to do. Thankyou for your openness it is really interesting. Was your daughter’s school in London, you might have already said; my child was in pre-voc in a Russian school but they closed their pre-voc and vocational training down when the pandemic hit. This was the path my child and I very much intended to take. The training was good, tough, but good and solid and they loved the school. For us we didn’t find anything as good overall as what they offered, plus for us like you there was financial assistance and scholarships offered from the school which are nearly impossible to find post-pandemic. Also there were really good performance opportunities. They offered my child a scholarship for their vocational training when they auditioned for the AD. Sadly and I am gutted but they are gone now. It was a rare find with my limited knowledge of ballet training, but my child loved it. They would have been starting there on vocational training this September. I think it is the same school, if it is I am not at all surprised that your daughter has done well. The full-time vocational training where they are now is very different.

It wasn’t an anecdotal observation it was made in response to a post from a parent talking about her daughter who is a professional ballet dancer in Europe I believe. It would be helpful if you were specific in what you see as ‘not evidence based’ and @ specific posters and then they could reply accordingly. What is it that puzzles you particularly can you say? I am happy to evidence, qualify any questions you may have.

@Kate_N what you outline raises the difficult issue of ‘is the U.K. training good enough’ - I suspect we are all in agreement about the elite part of training to become a professional ballet dancer, however the conversation is perhaps why ‘hothouse’ when vocational training in the U.K. is listed as one of the best in the world. We also are aware surely of the long term impact on the mind and body of hothousing, even in an academic setting. The OP from me is also about the change to a training program, about it no longer being vocational in the same way. Why? If more and more training is the answer then surely this implies, well it does to me that the training on offer is either not good enough here, or that the RB is making a statement about how it sees ballet training reframed. (Speculation I know, but I see it as a positive change. I notice that Elmhurst have also reviewed the way the implement their ballet training program underpinned through University research by one of the teachers with the 11+Dance program Strength Motion Mind) There is new evidence (well not so new anymore) garnering much more widespread recognition, concerning all areas of sports medicine and research that evidences early hyperspecialisation especially in girls under 12 leads to higher incidence of injury and burnout, and that what is being suggested is cross training and athletics from an early age with an absolute maximum of only 10 hrs dance training up to the age of 12. Up to age 16 the recommendations are for no more than 16 hrs per week with 2 to 3 full months off per year for students in full-time training to allow the body to develop, rest and heal. We all here I think acknowledge that ballet is an elite art form but for me the pursuit of its training falls very far from any kind of elite pursuit with the continued push and scramble to do as much as is humanly possible. I know we all mention Miko Fogarty, but it’s worth reading what she wrote about her ballet training; it’s a perfect summation of what for me is currently being pursued in the ballet world atm, and gathering much momentum it feels.

You are right when you say it is the last couple of years where things have taken off and I feel set a new benchmark for what is now seemingly quite normal. Last year there were a number of discussions on here about children auditioning for vocational schools and being trained by a range of professionals on top of associates and regular ballet classes. It seems like a shifting landscape of ballet training with the emphasis on more and more training. Maybe this is what it takes now, I don’t know how I feel about it all.