NotadanceMa

For me ‘hothousing’ is where a child is in a local ballet school and usually an associate program or two (this seems to have increased) and on top of this they start having extra coaching and 1:1 lessons specifically for an audition with a view to getting ahead. There are now children in vocational schools that I know, day and boarders who still attend every associate program going at weekends and also privates on top of these. Let’s add in intensives every holiday, workshops and performing with various ballet company as they come up. This to me is hothousing, but has now become the norm.

😊 I’m going to smile and nod because I know however I’m desperate to keep the thread going and the discussion under control. And yes the ballet world is very small and I know the answers to many of the questions you posit. I know though on the forum it has to be firsthand experience, so for my child it was a bit of luck and an MDS. Without this ballet would have exited our lives stage left. It is however a double-edged sword in so many ways, we still cannot compete with level of training their peers receive outside vocational or attend the intensives, so the hothousing continues even inside the system. My child is absolutely exhausted evenings, weekends and holidays and their body and brain cannot keep on training, neither does it want to. They are a slow burner, talented but finding it difficult to compete in a way. I find the whole thing really odd. Why is full-time vocational training not enough? I admit for the first time ever I arranged for them to have a couple of privates with our lovely Emma Northmore in August who has known them since they were 10 and at Ballet Boost. (It’s not an advert for Emma, but for the purpose of transparency I prefer to say who) She gives such positive constructive feedback and is upbeat and kind, which I think is lacking in some of the teaching approaches my child has experienced. Also she knows how my child learns and they would not have gotten to where they are now without support from her. She gave child a bursary and a scholarship place at ABA when we struggled to continue because of financial difficulties. She has a bit of my child’s heart always and mine. If the hothousing system becomes the norm and it seems to be, there will be no such thing as raw talent anymore entering an audition. A poster said previously about young international children doing perfect multiple pirouettes. I’m not sure that’s how I want things to be when children are young and at the beginning. I miss just attending our local school hall classes everything felt so much more straightforward then.

It was me, and I said it because I read the new program ‘brochure’ - there was no suggestion that the program would impact existing training only that it started Sept 21 with a new teacher etc and all new policies. Blows my mind that this is not the case.

How very odd indeed and how desperately unfair for those Y9 students. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all doing this I’m sure it cannot make any to you either. It must feel so much worse. im being careful with my words as I really want the thread to stay open so we can discuss these areas. Yes I have friends with children in the new Y7 cohort and yes it definitely is a 3 year program. It does really make me wonder if other training in the U.K. might change in line with this. I find the contradiction from the AD of RB a strange one; there is a new video release from him talking about not wanting students they select to pursue competitions here or abroad and yet I am assuming it is the PdL and similar competitions that international students are selected from to fill the assessed out spaces. 🫤

I agree the ballet world has changed dramatically since my child started in it Y6 JA’s 2017. I remember hearing about private lessons and coaches and attending alsorts of intensives and workshops; but now it’s like things have exploded. No one that we knew had private coaching or extra for their vocational school auditions back then; last year a new Y6 mum we met along the way said it feels like the odd one out if you’re child is not. There was a heated discussion on here last year because members auditioning for WL had professional teachers and coaches for the children’s audition. It does seem like the ballet world has really clearly divided into two parts; hothousing 🆚 what now feels like the old fashioned way. 😁 Money plays a significant part in these choices, so many parents like me can’t hothouse; would I hothouse my child if they had been identified as talented with potential and I thought could cope with this type of training??? I think I just might. I feel Covid has also changed my outlook on ballet training and opportunities that I might once have considered pursuing. I still think Covid is changing the dance landscape as it hasn’t finished with us yet. If it makes me more cautious and wary then I’m sure that companies are now having to make space for things to be different.

@TiaramumIm sorry your child and family experienced this even with resilience and determination it sounds very tough indeed. Can I clarify something with you, because the new program started in September 21’ the first cohort through this new program will either graduate in summer ‘23 or move onto the pre-vocational level the following Sept for Y10. The assessing out this year surely can’t be linked to the new program if its just started? Your year is my child’s year cohort and they have children they know assessed out so they would have started in Sept ‘19 which was part of the longstanding lower school vocational program before things changed. It would be interesting to hear how things are different for the new Y7’s starting from ‘21.

I read in the literature it was a development program so my mistake however definitely not vocational anymore.

Problem is there is a lot of negativity directed at RB and we have all taken part in those discussions many times over, we know them off by heart by now. however if we can open out our discussion a bit maybe we can keep the thread going for a while and look at how things might play out in a more creative way. it’s the first significant change in any training program for a long time.

No they’re not. The program started in Sept 21 9 girls and 3 boys were assessed out for Y10. we knew many of them and lots of them will be starting new vocational training places in Sept.

It’s called a Developmental Training Program. I think this kind of training creates more possibilities not less. High profile ballet schools all look to find good students from competitions this is just how it is. I was trying to move away from the often negative discussions that are directed at RB and explore the possibly changing landscape of dance training. It would be good to keep the thread open. 😌 It will be interesting to see what happens with the first cohort of the new RB program at Y9 and Y11. Until then we just don’t know where the students will come from; not for sure anyway.

Boarding is the aspect of training my child likes the least. They miss me, their life and their friends, they are spending the summer deciding ... And absolutely it is an extreme lifestyle. I used to refer to classical ballet fanaticism as a cult 😊 I still hold somewhat to that now. If I could turn back time I would run away screaming and never have taken my child down this path. And it is absolutely us adults that initially take our children down it. My teen has said a few times over the last 18 months I wish I had never started ballet in the first place because now it feels impossible to give up, what would I be without it. 😞 Funny old world this forum shines a light into.

My child started on the CAT scheme in London when they started JA’s, of course it has a contemporary focus in London, so they only did a year as they were ballet obsessed. How I wish I had encouraged them to stay put and wait, now at 14 whilst enjoying ballet has a strong pull and keener interest in contemporary dance. All that said the CAT system of training in our short experience was absolutely excellent. Slow steady build focusing on technique, but also individuality, with increasing attendance and training progressing with age, recognising the physical and mental changes that come with puberty. Actively encouraging the child to maintain links to school and social groups where they live. Diverse and inclusive. Nothing has exceeded its format and philosophy to date for me. If there had been a ballet CAT in London, child would still be there now. Also again of note is the wonderful full day pre-vocational training offered by places like Rambert, the amazing full day associate pre vocational program offered by Central to enhance existing dance training.

I think it will take a while for the new system to bed in and for people to realise the difference, and there is a difference. of course people now are used to the old system and will be invested in it still being FT vocational training from Y7, however if you research the program it clearly isn’t. It’s not meant to be. Changes like this are huge and mixed feelings are very understandable. Dance and sport science is also realising that intensive training starting from a young age is not a good thing re injury and burnout, and associated mental health issues, evidence underpins waiting for bodies to develop especially strength, shape and facility, young brains to be more rounded and resilient etc As the new system goes forward and new children join I believe it has the opportunity to reframe peoples understanding, attitudes and expectations about what is on offer; especially when the last of the old system is no longer at RB. I am a huge advocate of children remaining at home wherever possible to continue dance training keeping their lives and friends intact until either Y9 or after GCSEs. (I would rather have waited until US but money dictated choices for my child) With the current cost of living crisis, ballet training would have gone out the window for us. We managed it until Y9 and whilst it has been an ok decision for my child, it has definitely not been without problems. I realise now after what feels like a lifetime of ballet conversations that no vocational training residential or otherwise is without its issues or problems. Some surmountable some not. Again I believe as the systems change and more rigid traditional approaches to training die out with new evidence supporting these changes, culture will also be revisited and reframed. I hope that ballet training can take a deep breath and enter the 21st century. It is long overdue.

I thought it was interesting that the new system now in place from Y7-Y9 at RBS is no longer called ‘vocational training.’ It looks to be an extension of the JA training; a development program, pre-vocational with vocational starting at the next stage. This would be more in keeping with training abroad and Vaganova/Russian training programs that only consider vocational training from Y9/10, up until then it is pre-vocational. They wait for body changes and hormones to create strength and shape before progression to the training proper so to speak. I mention it from personal interest, my child Y9 has really only just recently secured a perfect single tour en l’air, no wobbles, really good height, landing etc, they could do them from Y5, however they now understand what is expected, what they are doing and why. They have strength, coordination, control, understanding of how to move on from this. There is a lot to be said for slowing down the process of vocational training until the child’s body and mind know if they are a fit for the rigours of classical ballet training proper. Managing expectations become easier also for the child because they know they are still in the development phase of learning to dance, and as much as we might think we know what our child really really wants at age 10/11, they don’t really. Especially boys 😁, my Y6 and my soon to be Y10 child is a completely different person. At Y6 it was a magical thing, at end of Y9 it is exhausting, painful, an endurance test but with moments of love and passion and also a realisation that dance enhances their quality of their day, their brain works better because dance is part of it. Do they want to dance professionally??? They still have absolutely no idea, and err on the side that it is extremely unlikely given how Covid and Brexit has impacted performing artists in the U.K. For me it has been useful to be as harsh and realistic as possible. Spending time training with the Russians really helped focus the mind, they don’t pull any punches, they tell you all the time just what to expect and IME were transparent from the get go. I think possibly the revising of the RB lower school training program might bring about a positive sea change for ballet training in the U.K. and other schools may follow suit. To me it makes better sense, it is a more transparent process and allows for puberty changes and recognises that vocational training at Y7 is just too young. It tells the child you are not on that path just yet…it’s a maybe

It is because of Desire Samaii that my child found themselves with an unexpected opportunity!! Their experience with her is wonderful. My child loves Martha Graham and Isadora Duncan, they came to them only recently. My child has absolutely blossomed under the teachings of some and wilted to the point of dying under other teachers. I remember at a workshop run by ex ENB principal Dimitri Gruzdev, my teen was struggling to pick up enchainments quickly and became very frustrated; Dimitri said to them, don’t focus too much on your technique because everyone will be watching your beautiful quality of movement and will forgive you many things. It has been comments like this, when a teacher has seen the ‘whole child’ that I believe has the potential to really help the child understand what becoming a dancer means. I whole heartedly agree of the importance for the whole child to be seen; and I realise that this is very difficult for some teachers to move towards as it becomes less about them and more about the student. I just looked up the book on Amazon it is £65 for the paperback!!! I will try and order it from the library.

I love your observation about students blossoming at different stages. My teen is a slow burner, hitting puberty has brought about a significant mental sea change. Predominately for them a need to stay true to themselves and to resist what they believe is an outdated mode of dance training methods by some. It’s not an easy path to take. They also recognise they are slower to learn, no less talented but technique is something they have to work really hard at to master as the movements become faster and more complex. Artistry and musicality are their strengths, but the system favours students who learn quickly still and don’t challenge the status quo. (In their experience) They have also decided to stand by the aspects of their artistry that set them apart from others. Teachers have said at various points on their training route that unless the technique is incorrect, you need to do you, if you like something about your style then analyse it and decide whether you want to keep it. Tastes vary. For me this is a very important part of being a teenager, finding out who you are and who you want to be. Dance can enhance and stifle those areas in equal measures. I notice my child moving, inching slightly toward schools like Rambert. The Forsythe evening from ENB was a revelation for them. Not a very clear post, but ‘assessing out’ can also be a positive thing, reframing your child’s experience to date, recognising that your child is bucking a system that doesn’t fit them, not the other way around. I understand at the time it can feel absolutely devastating. I am constantly waiting for my teen to be assessed out. 😬

However money and privilege does alter outcomes, create choices, and make other options possible. £30 kind of reinforces for me the point about money and privilege. Who is the target audience?

I also notice that the RB have changed their admission policy re SEN. (Sept 21) This is of particular interest to me; they can now deselect on the basis of SEN. Prior to the new training revamp this was not the case. I kept the old RB SEN report in my files, the new one is very different indeed.

If I could uptick you more than once I would.

My now teen danced with EYB 3 times over 4 years and had a wonderful time. However this is no easy option, the children are treated as though they are in a company from start to finish even the youngest. There is shouting from some teachers and Miss Lewis is very old school, and the schedule is intensive. This is for a paying audience usually in the main theatre. My child loved their experience and I loved it too, but it is not for everyone. My child has danced with BRB and that was a much gentler more nurturing experience but they preferred EYB. With regards to the ‘no’s’ if the audition is live in a theatre in front of a parent audience then it really is quite brutal. Your number is called and it’s bye bye, as you would be cut often as a professional. I really felt for all the children who just had to leave the stage after a hard audition. I think it is now a video audition, so maybe the ‘no’ will be via email. ‘No’s’ are really tough, repeat ‘no’s’ moreso, however this is the business. Yes that’s a bit brutal a response, talk to your daughter how will she manage another ‘no’? Is she a child that is sensitive to rejection, age has lots to do with this. Does it knock her more or you? How is she now after her JA ‘no’? Does she want to audition again? EYB is a lovely performing opportunity and a ‘no’ is part of that process.

We used the RAD app for practice where you buy and download the relevant class. Make sure you download the app to a tablet or laptop not a phone as it is not a transferable system. My child found them really helpful for exam practice.

My teen was impressed by the quality of the teaching at Tring and the challenging classes, more challenging than other associates they were involved with at the time. Lots of interaction and feedback and really well written detailed reports from the end of year assessments. I cannot comment on BBO.

It’s not where your child auditioned it’s what centre you put on the form.

My child auditioned four years ago in Covent Garden for a Y6 place at Eastleigh. We chose London auditions for the full RB experience as it was the first time my child had ever auditioned and could have been the last time they were in Covent Garden. That year there were four Y6 places at Eastleigh, 2 boys 2 girls. All had ticked Eastleigh centre. There were no Y4/5 spaces. Everyone child already there at that JA centre had chosen that specific centre. I have not in the last four years heard of anyone being offered another centre outside of their choices selected on the forms.

I always stayed for rehearsals and we lived nearer than you. There is usually a place for parents to sit and wait. There will be a casting audition on the first day of rehearsals and parts are allocated on the basis of that. It might have changed, but knowing Janet Lewis, Director, it will remain the same. 😁