Geoff

I'm not on Facebook but have had no problem watching it (full screen and without comments) via this page: http://www.roh.org.uk/news/watch-the-royal-ballets-manon-in-rehearsal-on-7-march-2018

Yes, and no doubt many of us as well. Two other observations of her during those curtain calls: she gave Matthew Ball a well deserved kiss on the lips. And she wanted to applaud her conductor, although there are apparently "rules" against this. By the way, those who want to know more about this arcane subject can read the scratchy comments here (the sight of Osipova wanting to applaud Kessels wildly and then holding herself back was very touching): http://slippedisc.com/2017/12/covent-garden-to-singers-do-not-applaud-each-other/

How embarrassing, yes of course (I am still rather in a daze after last night). Apologies all round.

But also louder. Not to be ungallant but it wasn't long ago that Precious Adams thumped her way through Myrtha at the Coliseum, yet this seemed not to impact at all on the highly positive comments she received for the role.

A friend I respect recently told me how much they liked this show. This prompted me to check more widely, by reading all the way through the now nearly three hundred comments on the two ROH boards (split between one for what-did-you-think and another for what-did-you-think-at-the-cinema). This broad sample - deeply divided on the merits or otherwise of the show - triggered two observations. * As so often, those who disliked the show seem far more capable of providing detailed comments than those who thought it was "wonderful" (which tells one something). * And there is a notable difference: on the "live theatre" page, there is a strong majority against, whereas on the "live cinema" page, a majority in favour. Which also says a lot. Anyway, reviewing the show I saw a couple of weeks ago now with the benefit of some distance (i) the conductor will be welcomed back, and (ii) I wouldn't mind seeing the mezzo in something else. Just in, a thoughtful new review: http://seenandheard-international.com/2018/03/anna-goryachova-beguilingly-stares-down-the-camera-for-royal-operas-carmen-in-cinemas/

This morning's Daily Mail:-http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5480365/Artistic-director-English-National-Ballet-having-love-affair.html

Yes please! I'll send you a PM now.

Yes please - for the matinee - will send you a PM now

In terms of criteria, it seems like only the day before yesterday the Forum was discussing what seemed to some to be a catastrophic funding crisis at BRB. If that was and is true, the next appointment will inevitably have to deal with it in one or more ways. Just saying.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but although Angela may well be right re ballet vs opera performance in Italy, it is an open secret that Italian operatic singing training has collapsed. There are just no teachers in Italy any more, say my opera friends. So while opera is certainly an Italian art form, it seems it isn't currently being properly protected for the future.

Ticket gone now

£17. Eticket so easy to email. Please send PM if interested, as well as posting here (travelling so will be slow to reply). If unclaimed by the end of the weekend I'll give it to the Box Office on Monday.

Here's a snapshot of the programme (hope readable enough). There was an extra piece in the second half, not listed here. Does anyone know about this (it got the beginnings of boos, at least where I was sitting)?

Sticking with John Curry, has anyone seen the new documentary which is just opening? There was a middling review in the paper yesterday.

I may need to revise this point: a singer tonight told me the ENO still carries that sort of support staff. If so then they aren't doing much of a good job, at least not so far as this Iolanthe cast.

That is not unusual, at least so far as two kinds of music lover are concerned. There are the only-go-to-Glyndebourne-and-ROH-dress-circle types (controversially identified by critic Anna Winter) who tend to look down their noses at ballet, despite often falling asleep during the shows they favour. And the more "exquisite" and "knowledgeable" a musical friend is, the more I have sometimes had to fight to defend ballet as a fine art equivalent to their preferences for string quartets, harpsichord recitals and Monteverdi. This may have something to do with the injection of circus which arrived with the Italians in the 19th century.

We went last night. The show has had a surprisingly wide range of critical responses: I've seen everything from a sulky two stars to a total rave which I'm copying at the end. So what was our (group of four) consensus view? * Iolanthe is a fab work, as good as G&S ever gets, and one should be dancing on air by the end - yet somehow none of us was, despite much enjoyment. * The orchestra did very well and consistently pointed up musical aspects usually unheard. The conductor is credited as the co-editor of a new critical historical edition of the score, an effort with many attractive new details but which leaves the first half far longer than any of us can remember, perhaps too long (given that most of the slam dunk numbers are in the just about perfect second half). * The show looks gorgeous (not often the case at the ENO these days) and most of the gags should eventually be funny, given some editing, stronger casting in minor roles (comedy is more skilled work than some of the cast understand), more confident pacing and probably more rehearsal time, perhaps under staff directors released from the anxiety of just getting the show on to the stage (a small miracle these days, given the desperate state the ENO operation is in). * Diction (apart from a couple of the leads) needs a lot of help. I don't remember that ever being the case with ENO Mikado so - just a theory - the hollowing out of the company over recent years may mean there is not the same level of help/training available. This is a real issue: Iolanthe was written for a much smaller theatre; there is a lot of dialogue (little of which we could hear properly); and everyone knows G&S needs the miracles of what Gilbert wrote to come across clearly and easily. Someone get word to the production, asap please, as they could all try harder. Andrew Shore, an impeccable (as well as susceptible) Chacellor, was last night one of very few cast members who knew how to handle the demands of the enormous theatre. * All in all, we wish this show well and hope it settles down to being a much needed great success for the ENO (it was not full last night, so look out for discounted ticket offers). Perhaps a revival will take a tougher view of the new critical edition; cast stronger comedians (but I hope Andrew Shore goes on for ever); demand better diction; and generally smooth things out. It deserves to run for years. Now for the view of one of our most discerning music critics, who attended what by all accounts was a riotous (indulgent?) first night: http://www.theartsdesk.com/opera/iolanthe-english-national-opera-review-bright-and-beautiful-gs-all

PS To avoid any misunderstanding, my comments were intended for Timmie, who asked a specific question at the top of this thread as the result of his specific situation (seeing his first opera a few weeks ago and wanting advice on what he might see next)

If you haven't already got the point, this is as bad a production as I know. So:- i) imho someone looking for their next opera to go to after only having seen Tosca might not want Wagner as their number two (as per what I said above) ii) if you really want to jump into Wagner next, then maybe not the Ring (see others comments, above) iii) and if it nonetheless has to be the Ring, then maybe hold back from starting on this most exciting of music-theatre journeys handicapped by a secondrate suburban staging only mounted again by ROH because they (as I happen to know as a fact) couldn't find the money to offer a new one next season. Just trying to help, other opinions are available!

I'm appalled to hear this Sim. I have nothing but the utmost respect for those who volunteer to look after this site, without which we would all be worse off. We are all in your debt and, please, don't let a tiny minority distress you to the point you can't go on (as has happened elsewhere). We are all sincerely grateful. And happy anniversary, by the way! To those who sent such upsetting messages, cut it out.

Not sure but we seem to be going round in circles somewhat. One doesn't need to read things on libellous websites, one only has to read what the investigation panel of the US Figure Skating Association said: this panel said she knew beforehand. I gave a reference in my earlier posting, above http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/01/sports/figure-skating-us-title-is-taken-back-from-harding.html But I also said this should be balanced by the fact that she was not convicted of this charge, indeed it seems Tonya Harding has always denied it. You decide!

I thought her guilty plea (and conviction) was only for hindering the subsequent investigation, not to foreknowledge of the attack?

Having been brought up with opera, working for a while at the opera and certainly being a lifelong opera fan (yes to both Callas and Sutherland, btw!) I must admit to noticing a difference when I came, late (over the age of 50 anyway), to a deeper appreciation of ballet. The nature of ballet discussion, writing and general responses, whether by amateur fans or professionals, does seem notably different. I suspect there could be a simple explanation, at least for some of the difference. Not many children dream of becoming opera singers, whereas every year sees another generation of aspiring dancers take their first ballet classes, supported by their families. Of course most eventually fall by the wayside, sooner or later, sometimes not until adulthood, but for so many of those in the audience to be either aspiring, active or former dancers (or their family) must inevitably change the demographic nature of the ballet-going community.

The film - at least as I read it - gives Tonya Harding the benefit of the doubt on this point, while making clear that the story is a confused and confusing one. The evidence is muddled, including by the incentives provided by the US system for her (ex) husband to testify against her. I am no expert on the case but there are two important facts to bear in mind when writing about it: i) She was not convicted on this charge ii) On the other hand, see for example this news report: http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/01/sports/figure-skating-us-title-is-taken-back-from-harding.html

This has already appeared in Links but given the discussions elsewhere on the Forum perhaps this news story is worth highlighting: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/arts/dance/peter-martins-ballet-investigation.html