annaliesey

Yes, thats precisely where I'm at now and we've started to trial, overlap, and take classes elsewhere, we've had to. DD is absolutely fine with this and is a positive person and her focus is unwaivering. She's just been in the classes when the teacher has been discussing moving classes and heard the petty reasons and just feels let down because it means she can't do the classes or might have to drop out or defer exams. But I just wanted to throw this question out there whether I had unrealistic expectations really or whether others had experienced and been lucky enough to have a little bit of flexibility or support?

... it is! it lives at the unicorn farm But can I apologise to the lovely dance teachers on here who we know are genuinely proud and supportive. Can you just have a word with our dance teachers please

on the subject of tights ... just don't wash them! She only gets about 3 wears out of them anyway on average. I figured if she can't be bothered to pick up dirty clothes from her bedroom floor, I can't be bothered to wash ballet tights

sorry but I laughed too as the harsh reality is that anything like that you had better keep a secret or your classes and exams will stop!

Do you know what? I wouldn't even mind that! that's how desperate I am hahahaha And I would prefer that to chopping and changing constantly for one or two kids here and they aren't doing anything or want to do anything vocationally it's just because of one other girls netball matches .... just really?!

yes but... a. dance teachers aren't necessarily good business people b. advanced/semi-serious are likely to pay for private lessons c. jealous parents make too much noise

yes, I know it's the only thing to do. I've just been a bit hesitant and reluctant as my dd had such a wonderful relationship with her a year or so ago. She benefited significantly from her tuition and we tried really hard to fit in and just be nice and lovely and patient. Ideally I would have liked to get that back on track but think I just have to accept things for the way they are and move on. I'm just questioning my expectations really. I wouldn't expect her to change all her classes to suit us and indeed we have had a good number of class clashes that we have just accepted and given up on those classes without replacement. But, when it comes to advanced grades or vocational grades, for a school that doesn't have many students at that level, I honestly did have the expectation that things would have stayed the same so that she would have my dd do them. She is six weeks away from doing two vocational graded exam and the class gets moved to a different day to clash with the CAT. Hmm. ... someone obviously doesn't want us there or wants us to give up CAT or just wants private lesson income! pah

If you fancy an interesting read of a blog by a dad with a son at vocational ballet school. http://www.balletdadblog.com/the-blog I know we all like to read of people's personal experiences on this forum so I thought I'd share this as it has a warts-and-all approach to describing their journey.

Well, Nicola, I feel I have unrealistic expectations here but happy to be proved wrong. I haven't met many teachers that speak highly of CAT tbh. I feel that the ones I have spoken with don't understand it. There was one teacher, in London, quite a prominent person, who ranted on about how rubbish CAT schemes were only to have not realised that 30% of their invite-only class were also CAT students (they just didn't share it with this teacher!). So I know it's not just local dance teachers that are negative. Maybe the CAT schemes have got a bit of work to do with reaching out to local dance schools a bit more, explain things like 100% success rate with of their graduates obtaining FE places. When you talk with the CAT managers they do seem to be aware of this issue and are trying to come up with things to reach out but it doesn't seem to be working much from our perspective. You would things such as Young Dancer with it's TV publicity would have done a little bit to change attitudes but apparently not. It's an hour and a half's journey to the CAT for us at weekends and there's only around 8 midweek students locally at our 'satelite' midweek centre. 3 of them are all at our local dance school (including us) but we are the only one with significant clashes by syllabus grades somehow. The others take classes in the city centre location (which is still about 30 mins from us) but dd has taken syllabus classes there last term and this term.

oh gosh I don't envy you with your twins and different interest haha as for teacher being proud? ... err no! ... if anything, she has nothing nice to say about it, has not once made a positive remark or reference to it, or anything that we have done outside of the dance school come to think of it. If anything she likes to support the underdog as it were, and if you are a parent with a semi-serious kid who wants to aim for college then it's expected that you'll get your cheque book out and pay for private lessons .. if she has time, and if you kiss ass enough Oh gosh I could type so much more here but I'm going to take a deep breath and go and get a coffee instead before I get all agitated hahaha

Good luck Moondust99, I just wanted to say that I honestly believe it's the teacher that counts not the syllabus. My dd has danced since aged 3 following RAD grades but along the way we have met some incredible dancers who do other syllabus and we've met some lovely teachers who have all had tremendous value to regardless of whether they belong to a professional body or not. (Similarly we have met some awful teachers who are with professional bodies) so the syllabus and professional body is not an automatic measure of how good a teacher someone is! Just trust your gut and go with wherever you get the most corrections and where it feels right for you and also try to take classes with different teachers so you have a good comparison. My advice is that places like Pineapple, Studio68, will not give very many corrections as they are mostly drop in classes but they are good to work with different teachers.

welcome to the forum Rose66, such nice marks for grade 5. I'm sure when you get the certificate you will see on the back how the marks have been obtained if you haven't got that through yet, it'll have lots of nice high scores out of 10 in each section. Sounds like she has done well across all the areas such as technique, performance, knowledge of the syllabus, musicality etc. Well done to you granddaughter. I'm afraid I don't know what medal tests are though but that sounds good too

OK wise people of balletco, I could really do with some advice. Juggling timetables has been, and continues to be a complete nightmare! Only really because we are keen to carry on with advanced syllabus classes and it does seem to be the more one advances up the grades the less classes are about. If we opted out of syllabus then it wouldn't be a problem and I just wonder how many other people have been in the same boat and what approach did you take? As soon as my dd committed to a CAT scheme which involved one days training on a weekend and one evening mid-week, we seemed to be presented with an almighty challenge of trying to continue with syllabus classes to continue through the grades that she was enjoying (RAD & ISTD). Her main dance teacher has put every single grade (ballet, modern, tap) on at the same time as the CAT scheme making it impossible for us to take those classes without dropping CAT. My dd also is committed to something which makes getting back to classes mid day on a Saturday impossible too and whereas the advanced classes used to be on their timetable for a time we could do, late afternoon, allowing for travelling, now she has moved that earlier too so it's impossible to do that without dropping the other thing (which I don't want to say what it is without compromising anonymity). My dd is starting to take it personally because she feels she is being pushed out because she sees other children who have a preference for a class to be moved (clashes with netball, swimming, sibling arrangements, generally feeling a bit tired doing more than one class in the same evening, etc) and their needs/wishes are accommodated by the teachers with making changes to timetables for them, usually it might only affect very small class numbers (2-6 students) whereas she has just her CAT scheme and this one other thing on Saturday mornings and there's no flexibility whatsoever. It's been very much like it or lump it so I can only presume this teachers doesn't want us to stick with her but move on... ! We've enrolled for other classes elsewhere now as felt we had to as had no other choice. But would you handle anything differently? Do you all get lots of support and flexibility from dance schools/teachers with timetables if your child does associates anywhere? Or do you get met with the like it or lump it attitude too?

Asolutely! My dd and her friends have already nicknamed this "Grade 9" haha

I think it could just mean practice hours including at home

No there isn’t anything is there. I just wonder if ‘vocational’ is the right word though as surely it would attract more people rather than limit to people who think you would only do it if you wanted to do it as career. Why not just say ‘advanced’. i still know of teachers where the vocational graded classes are by invite only.

Or semi-laddered means they are a bit laddered, usually “grink” but still wearable. usually with canvass shoes with toes poking through or soft blocks from a ripped apart pair of pointe shoes covered in ribena that leaked. Then the week or so before the exams rush out and buy new stuff because you realise how scruffy everything is. When you say “VGE” does that mean vocational graded exams? I didn’t even know there was a skirt for these exams. I’m sure someone has mentioned a practise tutu for one of these though

I share your cynicism especially when considering the cost of these exams now! weve been looking around at different dance schools and trialling quite a few recently so that we can get to a few different classes each week and the variation between schools is staggering. One school had an advanced class running for adv foundation and adv 1 combined with adult ballet. Another one combined with “silver swans”. Another one combined with a special/open class so they all had a very different feel and not particularly geared towards vocational as in those wanting to pursue a career in dance/ballet. Another one is intending on combining with ‘discovering repertoire”. All very weird. Lots of differing age ranges too. Youngest age 9 for intermediate foundation and oldest ladies in late 40’s for advanced 1. I’ve also seen daytime classes for adults over 16 for advanced foundation and advanced 1 too. I’m just not sure about different pathways now for a non vocational student wanting to train vocationally with a view to an auditioning for upper schools. All we are going by is how the class feels with the teaching style and quality and just trying to take a combination of classes. I hear of quite a few students who are happy to just get a low pass and I wonder why they would want to progress onto the next level without having mastered the current level better. Maybe its marketing. Maybe it’s the boom in dance competitions. But I agree there’s a lot of non vocational students doing vocational exams

Ahh ok so I understand the bunching thing as can recognise that as she was showing me that they look nicer as more snug to her heel. I’m just wondering about other things in terms of support or how it affects development as she possibly wouldn’t know this and is just going by what looks and feels nice

Hi, I've just googled 3/4 shanks and this thread came up from 2012! ... I'm trying to understand the whole 3/4 shanks thing. Basically, my dd was quite proud of ripping and cutting her shoes apart to make them into a 3/4 shank. They were actually a spare pair that she wasn't wearing as she said they had started to break/split under one heel or arch. Anyway, she says it helps her get on pointe quicker and makes her feet look nicer. Anyone else know why someone would want a 3/4 shank? Not sure if she's just spinning me a yarn through destroying them by experimenting with them or not TIA

Wow, this forum seems to have changed a lot! I can’t believe that a mum can come on here asking for advice about helping her daughter to improve technique and she’s been torn into by people in this way, criticising her parenting, suggesting it’s her that wants her dd to dance rather than the dd, attacking her personality and even openly mocking her user name! She’s simply had concerns that her dd was going through syllabus grades too quickly and not developing the technique at the same pace as the exam grades. Seems like quite a reasonable question to pose to a forum of ballet people for a wide range of input. She’s obviously perfectly aware of mental health risks as she took her daughter aged 10 to a counsellor immediately after smacking and mental abuse occurred by the old dance teacher. She’s referred to past event and the current state of play with negative flashbacks so is acutely aware of this so, tbh, I think it’s a bit crappy to attack her in this way when she’s trying her best and for people who don’t know her to imply that she is dismissive of mental health issues! Neither of us have been through this lightly I can assure you. It might make people feel better to insist that her dd stops dance, even temporarily, and I suspect that the strength of feeling here is aligned proportionately to forum egos. It’s a quick fix isn’t it? An easy answer to everything, as are the comments about the mum wanting it more than the dd. Well, just remember when you are typing things out on a keyboard, there is an actual person reading your comments, questioning their parenting because it’s easy to skim-read or jump to conclusions! MM has openly said that her daughter wants to dance ballet but pursue a career in dance generically, and possibly teach later after any professional employment comes up if she’s lucky. She is not delusional in thinking she is going to pursue a career as a professional ballerina. I can only assume that the moderators want to attract posts from professionals in the dance world and are OK if this means posters behaving like internet trolls. Very disappointed.

Hi, there is an old thread on here titled ‘teacher smacking’ and at the time I was asking for advice. It did get reported. It did get investigated by LADO and police but no prosecution. Even though the teacher admitted it, in uk law, physical abuse is time bound by six months. Our children took longer than six months to speak out and therefore ‘there was no crime’. Others have and and will continue to suffer in the same way I suspect until the law changes, as it has done with sexual abuse which is not time bound. As there was was no crime in uk law, the teacher is perfectly able to continue teaching without any consequences. The professional bodies she belongs to cannot and will not use their grievance procedures because they simply refer to LADO and police. There is no DBS referral because she is self employed (loophole to be aware of because employed teachers go through misconduct hearings at their place of work and this is disclosed information on DBS). The RAD published an article “a touch too much” in January 2017 which referred to the case but basically brushes off physical abuse with the confusion of correcting children with touch. Had we have known that speaking out was a fruitless exercise we probably would have done what many others had done before us; change dance schools quietly. There’s about 11 families who have confided to us of similar experiences so it’s quite frustrating that this woman along with many other harsh and abusive teachers can carry on representing the dance education community in this way. That people need to “grow a thicker skin or give up” anyway, we can’t change what’s happened, we can only try and change how we respond to things.

@thewinelake are you referring to grades 6,7&8 as vocational grades?

My dd did grade 6 quickly then grade 7 at two classes a week for two terms and did grade 8 alongside grade 7 and did the exams in the same sessions. She got distinctions so it is doable but she really enjoyed the grades and would have liked to have done them slower and taken her time to enjoy them. She only did them quickly because of timetables and because there wouldn’t have been a class running after the exams. She has said that when there is a class running again that she will go back and do them again as she enjoyed them so much. The recommended hours also includes practise hours so I guess that’s where students will vary so much. as for tips, I’d say use the rad app or dvd or download the specifications so that when the syllabus knowledge is secure they can dance with confidence and more performance good luck

Happy new year 😄