alison Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Calling all bakers out there! I've been cooking the family Christmas cake for years, and usually manage to do so quite successfully, but this year I used a (fan) electric oven for the first time, and it was a bit of a disaster: I double-lined the tin (round, 8", I think) with greaseproof paper as usual, and greased it, but when I went to take it out to put the marzipan on earlier this week I discovered that the base and sides of the cake were pretty blackened, and the greaseproof had welded itself onto the cake so I couldn't get it off! I'd converted the gas mark to degrees C, and cut the cooking time down by quite a lot as well, but it obviously wasn't enough. I cut off all the burnt bits and marzipaned the rest, but I want to avoid anything similar happening next year - apart from the fact that making Christmas cake is a pain, it's a terrible waste of ingredients. So, I guess my question would be: what sort of cooking time and temperature would you recommend for a cake that size in a fan-operated electric oven? It heats from both the top and bottom, which I'm not sure is usual in all electric ovens - or perhaps it is these days and I'm just out of date? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Sorry to hear your problems, probably nobody else will notice. In general you need to set a fan oven about 20° less than a standard oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 I'm not an expert baker (indeed not a baker at all really) but fan assisted electric ovens need a lower temperature than an ordinary electric oven to achieve the same effect. So simply converting gas mark something to celsius won't be correct. Online conversion tables will give you the detail but I do know that for recipe temperatures of 200 degrees C you need to set a fan oven to 180 C. Whether that would be enough to avoid your burnt bottom I can't say! Good luck for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Just now, Pas de Quatre said: Sorry to hear your problems, probably nobody else will notice. In general you need to set a fan oven about 20° less than a standard oven. Aha - I see I'm not the only early riser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Dogs need to go out and be fed. So I catch up with balletcoforum while drinking a cup of tea! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Pas de Quatre said: Dogs need to go out and be fed. So I catch up with balletcoforum while drinking a cup of tea! Same here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 2 hours ago, AnneMarriott said: I'm not an expert baker (indeed not a baker at all really) but fan assisted electric ovens need a lower temperature than an ordinary electric oven to achieve the same effect. So simply converting gas mark something to celsius won't be correct. Online conversion tables will give you the detail but I do know that for recipe temperatures of 200 degrees C you need to set a fan oven to 180 C. Whether that would be enough to avoid your burnt bottom I can't say! Good luck for next year. Thanks, Anne. I was sort of aware of that, but when your recipe is supposed to be done at Gas Mark 2 anyway I'm not sure how much leeway that gives you to lower the temperature much further! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 In that case perhaps it's worth investing in an oven thermometer to see if the thermostat is working properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SugarPlumpFairy Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 The first few years I baked a Christmas cake as an adult I used a fan oven and don’t recall any major disasters, but we left that house mid 2014 and I have no recollection now of exactly what settings, timings etc I used! A quick look online suggests you would probably need 130 degrees as the cooking temp if it’s originally gas 2? The recipe I use is also gas 2 and I expect I probably just did an online search for conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 22/12/2023 at 02:09, alison said: Calling all bakers out there! I've been cooking the family Christmas cake for years, and usually manage to do so quite successfully, but this year I used a (fan) electric oven for the first time, and it was a bit of a disaster: I double-lined the tin (round, 8", I think) with greaseproof paper as usual, and greased it, but when I went to take it out to put the marzipan on earlier this week I discovered that the base and sides of the cake were pretty blackened, and the greaseproof had welded itself onto the cake so I couldn't get it off! I'd converted the gas mark to degrees C, and cut the cooking time down by quite a lot as well, but it obviously wasn't enough. I cut off all the burnt bits and marzipaned the rest, but I want to avoid anything similar happening next year - apart from the fact that making Christmas cake is a pain, it's a terrible waste of ingredients. So, I guess my question would be: what sort of cooking time and temperature would you recommend for a cake that size in a fan-operated electric oven? It heats from both the top and bottom, which I'm not sure is usual in all electric ovens - or perhaps it is these days and I'm just out of date? Ready for Christmas 2024? Not many shopping days to go so be prepared. Even fewer days to get that cake baked and soaking in brandy. I have literally baked scores and scores of fruit cakes, Christmas, celebrations, friends, family, charity bakes and the rest. I like cake baking, I find it gently therapeutic! Radio on, and a nip of brandy to test it's not gone off. A few thoughts, based on trial and error and a certain amount of success. Yes buy an oven thermometer, Lakeland sells them. Ovens are notorious for being nowhere near the temperature at which they say are. Fan ovens IMO are not the best for fruit cakes though possible. Too aggressive. I gave up up on my old fan oven, even though turned down to a lower temp, and used the smaller top oven in the end which wasn't a fan oven. I now have an oven which can be used without the fan and used as a conventional oven with top and bottom heat only. It's really good for cakes. I have had success in a fan oven though. Better to cook longer and lower temp than burn the cake. Stand the cake on several sheets of brown paper on the oven shelf. Make sure the tin is lined and also tie on the outside with string a double layer of brown paper rising well above the top of the tin. You can buy fancy gadgets for this job too, but brown paper and string has served me well. Part way through cooking, once danger of sinkage is passed, put a piece of baking parchment or three or a circle of foil on top of the cake. Keep checking to ensure it isn't browning too much. Test the cake with a skewer long before the stated time is up, though I now also use one of the bundt cake testers which change colour when the cake is cooked. Lakeland sells those too. I use an old Good Housekeeping Cookery Book recipe I've used for years and it says bake at 150C / 300F gas mark 1-2, though a fan oven is hotter than non fan so check check check and adjust accordingly. Take the cake out of the oven and remove the brown paper to cool on a rack, leave in the tin until cold. Hope this helps for next time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 Thanks, Roberta. Unfortunately, I think both ovens are fan ovens. Wonder if you can cook them in an air fryer?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I can't answer that as I don't have one! I have baked in a fan oven, it's just the temperature needs to be accurate, reduced and the brown paper packages tied up with string advice carried out carefully. My fan oven is a separate setting and element to the non fan oven setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 It would seem that you can! https://www.goodto.com/food/air-fryer-christmas-cake More recipes too, via google. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, Roberta said: Ready for Christmas 2024? Not many shopping days to go so be prepared. Even fewer days to get that cake baked and soaking in brandy. I have literally baked scores and scores of fruit cakes, Christmas, celebrations, friends, family, charity bakes and the rest. I like cake baking, I find it gently therapeutic! Radio on, and a nip of brandy to test it's not gone off. A few thoughts, based on trial and error and a certain amount of success. Yes buy an oven thermometer, Lakeland sells them. Ovens are notorious for being nowhere near the temperature at which they say are. Fan ovens IMO are not the best for fruit cakes though possible. Too aggressive. I gave up up on my old fan oven, even though turned down to a lower temp, and used the smaller top oven in the end which wasn't a fan oven. I now have an oven which can be used without the fan and used as a conventional oven with top and bottom heat only. It's really good for cakes. I have had success in a fan oven though. Better to cook longer and lower temp than burn the cake. Stand the cake on several sheets of brown paper on the oven shelf. Make sure the tin is lined and also tie on the outside with string a double layer of brown paper rising well above the top of the tin. You can buy fancy gadgets for this job too, but brown paper and string has served me well. Part way through cooking, once danger of sinkage is passed, put a piece of baking parchment or three or a circle of foil on top of the cake. Keep checking to ensure it isn't browning too much. Test the cake with a skewer long before the stated time is up, though I now also use one of the bundt cake testers which change colour when the cake is cooked. Lakeland sells those too. I use an old Good Housekeeping Cookery Book recipe I've used for years and it says bake at 150C / 300F gas mark 1-2, though a fan oven is hotter than non fan so check check check and adjust accordingly. Take the cake out of the oven and remove the brown paper to cool on a rack, leave in the tin until cold. Hope this helps for next time. Wow - am I glad my oven can switch between fan assisted and normal! Glad to see an obviously experienced baker endorsing the oven thermometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, AnneMarriott said: endorsing the oven thermometer. I never cook without one! Not even oven chips! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 16 hours ago, AnneMarriott said: Wow - am I glad my oven can switch between fan assisted and normal! I think mine can - but then you get into all sorts of other problems, like being able to use only one shelf for roasting. Caused absolute chaos at Christmas, if you can imagine trying to cook Christmas lunch on only one shelf, and nothing on the floor of the oven because of the top-and-bottom heating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneMarriott Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 24 minutes ago, alison said: I think mine can - but then you get into all sorts of other problems, like being able to use only one shelf for roasting. Caused absolute chaos at Christmas, if you can imagine trying to cook Christmas lunch on only one shelf, and nothing on the floor of the oven because of the top-and-bottom heating. With a bit of googling you can get an additional shelf to fit your oven. Take an accurate measurement of your existing shelf and google "replacement oven shelf ??cmwide x ?? deep. I did this recently. As far as I know this shouldn't cause problems with the oven on conventional mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 Ah, no, the instructions were specific that you could only use one shelf - and I didn't really want to waste energy using the mini oven as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 21 minutes ago, alison said: Ah, no, the instructions were specific that you could only use one shelf - and I didn't really want to waste energy using the mini oven as well. I have two shelves and it's never been a problem, though the top element is exposed so things brown better nearer there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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