Question mainly for teachers

[annaliesey]

Hi

 

Does anyone have any experience of going through appeals process with ISTD or RAD?

 

I'm just doing a bit of work for a dance school where they have had a set of exam results back that are lower than usual (still some good marks but a few that stick out from the norm).

 

The dance teacher is of the view that she should just book for students to retake rather than wasting money on the appeals process as she says it's the cost structure of the appeals process that puts her off. 

 

Thanks

 

[hfbrew]

Don't know about ISTD but the RAD offers several options, one of which doesn't cost anything in that the teacher can enquire. It's the written reports and clerical checks that cost a lot.

 

If a whole group of candidates results really are not in keeping with a schools normal record then I think that it doesn't do any harm to to report back to HQ. After all the results are supposed to be moderated to ensure fairness for all should some examiners mark more harshly than some.

 

Ds was offered a retake when he was with a whole group of candidates who were marked low with a particular examiner. He turned it down as he already had a contract anyway.

[FullContretemps]

I'm not a teacher, but can tell you our story.

 

A friend and I took our Advanced 1 in the last session of the old syllabus (won't tell you which location in case I'm not supposed to identify examiner!) and both failed.

 

After a lot of consideration, and mostly because we couldn't just retake because we would have had to learn the whole new syllabus, our teacher and I both put in a formal complaint based on two points: what we felt was unfair marking, and the attitude of the examiner towards us, which led to our not performing as well as we should.

 

We were granted a complementary re-examination at the following session of the old syllabus, where I got a mid-merit and my friend was 2 marks off a distinction. Neither of us felt our dancing had improved much in the interim (we are both beyond the age of very rapid progress!).

 

That's the short story - I will only bore you with details if you want them. Suffice to say, a large number of students from a vocational school also missed out on marks they should have achieved and those to whom it made a difference (who needed Adv 2 distinction to move on to Solo Seal) were re-examined like us, but we only knew this because one of our ex-students attends that school (and knowing that did affect our decision to complain). That examiner is no longer examining.

 

 

So, with regard to your situation, I would say is it possible to find out how others from the same session/examiner did? If many are dissatisfied an appeal is more likely to be successful. I would say that in general the RAD pretty much hold their ground and appeals are mostly unlikely to get anywhere (I only have one other piece of evidence to back this up though, so it's only my opinion really!) but if there are specific reasons the teacher can find that it was unfair there may perhaps be a chance. The ground on which they granted our "gesture of goodwill" re-examination was not because the marking was unfair but because of the observations we had made about the examiner. So even though we knew about all the other students and what eventually became of the situation the RAD never admitted that an error had been made, although we could tell that they knew and we knew!

 

P.S. To add, it also depends how much lower than normal and whether it will make much of a difference to those students. There is always some variation between examiners and I have been in harshly-marked sessions before, but there is a difference between harshly marked and just plain unfair.

 

I agree, the cost and hassle of the appeals process is a very good guard against teachers bothering to complain. In a way I can understand because otherwise they would probably get so many complaints from people thinking results should have been better, but it seems unfair when there genuinely has been a problem.

 

Mods, I hope I haven't said anything out of order here - please edit if I have!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I think I heard about that (unless more than 1 Voc school was involved)

[drdance]

I've got an enquiry in for two of my June exams (my first RAD session in a long time). One is for an intermediate who JUST scraped a merit but in my opinion she should've got a mid-to-high merit, and another is for a grade 5 who got 72 who also should've got higher, in my opinion, as her posture, line and weight placement was better than the other girl she went in with (who got 81).

 

Having never done this before I don't know what the possible outcomes are - I've paid for the admin check and written report for both pupils so if there were admin errors then I guess the mark may be adjusted? Has that ever happened?! Otherwise I guess the written report might help me understand why the marks were what they were. I suppose if I still don't agree with the written report I could push for a re-take but I'm not sure the girls would want to do it again as they were both quite upset with their marks. I don't understand because both girls made so much improvement in the run up to the exams, and I'd worked hard to build up their self confidence.

[Guest]

Have experience of this, I will not identify the exam board concerned. Some time ago 3 experienced dance students all predicted a distinction, came out of an exam in a state of some distress. There had been a serious issue with the (live) music. The school immediately lodged a complaint which was upheld. A free resit was offered, but though initially promised to be 'immediately' in fact my dd had to wait a term for it. Fortunately the dance school very generously allowed her to do both IF and Inter in parallel and only charged for one set of classes. But I would say think carefully before going down this road as it can be very disruptive and may be not worth it for a few marks?

[annaliesey]

Thank you all for comments. I'm just feeding back.

 

Just from a marketing perspective really I've encouraged appeal as otherwise the organisation would not be able to get a view on any inconsistency with results and how they measure.

 

But I accept this doesn't help students who might be offered a retake if they just want to move on albeit with lower marks

[Dance*is*life]

If you're talking about Vocationals where the mark might be important, that's one thing, but with Grades I wouldn't bother, unless it was a huge drop.  A couple of years ago we had drops of 20 marks with several students from the old Grade 5 (all of whom got high marks for classical technique in Grade 5) to the new IF and I did appeal.  The RAD allowed me free enquiries as a gesture, but I still wasn't convinced.  I have a theory that the new marking system is responsible for the erratic marks nowadays.  There are such stringent criteria that have to be marked in a particular way, which doesn't really leave much room for the examiner's own input.  Teachers have been complaining that the pecking order of their students is no longer reflected accurately in exam marks, which it always was in the past.  Of course we never know what will happen in an exam - some are stressed out and don't show their best, whilst others might have a better day than usual and rise unexpectedly to the occasion.  I used to tell them that it was one person's evaluation of what she saw on that particular day - nowadays I'm not so sure as I tend to blame the marking system, right or wrong.  However, I do stick to the story that I enter them for the exams not to see what marks they get, but for the whole process of preparing for the exam, which gives them such a huge incentive to work. Still it used to happen in the days of yore too, before the new system was set up and examiners could literally do their own thiing.  I had a student get a pass with one examiner for her IF and two years later with the same examiner get a Distinction for her Intermediate!  And no she didn't miraculously improve in those two years!  She was always one of the best in the class, which was why she was one of only 4 students whom I entered for IF!   Her low result in IF was the only other time I appealed and again I still couldn't see why she deserved a 53. Also the two who were in a different group got high Merits (and I considered them weaker than the first two, who both got Passes) so no idea what happened! 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Dance*is*life

[Guest]

Exam boards should be moderating their marks (or at least a sample of them) as a matter of routine. We pay a lot of money for our children to take these exams and especially for the higher end vocationals they mean a lot in terms of preparation, points that count towards further education etc. But I am aware that at least some boards put a ceiling on mark adjustments (5%) unless the candidate re-takes. And it can set you back by a least a term. BTW my dd thought it was well worth it as she transformed her disappointing mark into a good one. It was only me that was frazzled getting her to all the extra classes lol.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Guest

[sarahw]

BBO moderate- including against that child's previous results I think.

[drdance]

Exam boards should be moderating their marks (or at least a sample of them) as a matter of routine. We pay a lot of money for our children to take these exams and especially for the higher end vocationals they mean a lot in terms of preparation, points that count towards further education etc. But I am aware that at least some boards put a ceiling on mark adjustments (5%) unless the candidate re-takes. And it can set you back by a least a term. BTW my dd thought it was well worth it as she transformed her disappointing mark into a good one. It was only me that was frazzled getting her to all the extra classes lol.

They do. They have a standardisation and moderation process which statistically analyses all marks for an area and for an examiner and the candidates' previous marks. There's detail about it on the RAD website. It made sense to me as a process but it still doesn't explain the large number of teachers taking to social media to express their displeasure with recent results.