Neverdancedjustamum

That would be very interesting and perhaps there are studies already done. Incidentally I was watching the sports news this morning and there was a piece about a premiere league football club that employs mentors specifically to prepare academy players for the likelihood of eventual life outside football. They take a very realistic view that out of the extremely talented group of academy trainees they have, most of them would end up in careers outside football. I only had it in the background but the mentor was addressing a classroom full of teenagers in the academy and the mentor was saying something like “Look around you, realistically only one of you would be playing top tier football in x years’ time” or something along those lines. I did see them flash a university’s research finding that “98% of players awarded with an academic scholarship by English clubs at 16 are no longer playing in the top five tiers of English football at 18.” This was promptly followed by “55% of players deselected from academies suffered from clinical levels of psychological distress within 21 days of being released.” I do wonder if the stats are similar.

I think there’s an element of parents thinking ‘Surely, it can’t happen to my child’ or the thinking that all these cases are historical and therefore things won’t be like that anymore. A lot of the children would have come from local dance schools where I’m sure they would have been one of the best and as soon as that offer comes in, they’re hailed even more as so. And then there are those who have the fortune of being one of the ‘favourites’, I’m sure it will be harder for their parents to see when these things are happening as it’s not happening to their child.

Absolutely, this. The best programmes in the most reputable universities would need 3 A levels, with grade requirements and at least one required subject out of the 3. If you don’t have these, you would likely need to wait another year to take them as you have to wait for the next sitting and admissions cycle. Not all universities would accept certificates in lieu of A levels, and not all would have contextual admissions or alternative offers. Even those who offer contextual admissions limit it to applicants who come from backgrounds that make them historically or normally less likely to pursue higher education, particularly to that specific university.

I’ll message you though my recommendations I don’t think are based up north or would be willing to travel up…

It is indeed such a gamble and even with it being so, and I suspect even with all the discussion surrounding the Panorama show, I highly doubt the school’s/schools’ application numbers would experience a dip. Already I know of lots of young dancers and parents busily preparing to meet the application deadline this year - booking photo shoots, privates, additional classes and physio sessions, etc. The number of those who turned down year 7 places this year surprised me, if I’m not mistaken, it’s much higher than previous years. I do wonder if this was just a blip though and despite all this talk I really doubt it will make much of a difference once offers come out. I have spoken to so many parents who used to be quite vocal about not wanting to send their children at such a young age to board and/or parents who don’t want to send their children to so and so school as they’ve heard it’s quite an intense/stressful environment and yet once they receive an offer…it’s a hard one to resist I guess. I’ve also spoken to many parents who have heard of these things, are critical of the school, and yet year after year they would still apply. A big name is hard to resist. On the surface, it appears to be the best way to get to an ambition or dream despite all such talk as “all roads lead to Rome”.

I agree with you completely. I think it’s definitely not the same with general education schools, comprehensive or not. Pupils are not in these schools with the same primary goal, they all have different ambitions which they are free to explore and work towards in the school. I can imagine parents will find it easier to move their children to a different school should they feel the resolution offered or the actions implemented are not sufficient when a concern arises. The kids in a way do not feel like they need to be in that particular school if anything went wrong, they can still get to where they want to be attending a different school. They don’t feel the need to stay somewhere because they are one of only XX number of students taken in from all over the world. They can keep their school and home lives separate. They can find their niche groups within the school - some are sporty, some are academic, some are into the arts, the general atmosphere I feel won’t be as stifled and intense. I can only speak of this from the pov of someone whose DCs never went to vocational school. Both my DCs have always been in state schools and both confirm that their respective heads and deputy heads from past and present schools have been very visible and always made it clear that they can be approached in confidence at any time if they encounter any issues with peers or other staff members. The same message is made clear to parents. We only have to email any teacher or even the head and be assured they will personally get back to us asap. This is of course from my own personal experience but I can’t really compare vocational schools to academic schools. We are talking about vocational schools that have maybe less than 200 students in the whole of its lower school. In a normal state school, that is mostly likely just one year group. It is my belief that for schools with such small enrolment, there should be a whole lot more scope for a nurturing and personalised educational experience, where every student is known by name, where processes and policies are implemented properly, where there is excellent oversight of everything and everyone.

If this is published information, I’ve never come across it though I haven’t actively looked for it. I suspect it’s an overwhelming majority. I personally know a couple of students who went there who confirm the demographic of the school is majority French. From the youngest years through to the final year. There are a few competition winners, not many, and often in the older years only. Same with those progressing from school to company. Majority French, with a very small number of graduates from overseas. If Wikipedia were to be believed (and I would advise taking this with a grain of salt), it states 95% of those admitted to the company are French.

My apologies, perhaps it was the wrong use of the word “guess”. A majority of them are quite recognisable from social media however, it was wrong of me to imply they aren’t British. Perhaps they have British passports too. I have no intention of being xenophobic, especially as I’m not from this country originally either. It is going to be tricky if we are to be very strict with terminology. Home grown/ home born / locally trained / resident in the country / national / passport holder - it’s a minefield as someone, for example, who has ever applied for funding will find out. In any case, I would love (my outsider’s observation) to be proven wrong. Perhaps someone with a child in the first year cohort would know.

I just saw photos of the new first year upper school students. I could be mistaken but of the 15 girls I saw, I would guess only one is British and only one was at WL from Year 7. Obviously quite off topic but my DD was recently in an RBS intensive and of almost 30 girls I’d say less than a handful are British (I could actually only see 2-3, one was my DD). Predictably, at least two were offered direct entry for next year’s intensives, both YAGP winners from overseas. My DD confirmed she found both were amazing, and very advanced for their age. To be fair, my DD was just in awe to be there and of everyone there as she’s just more a recreational dancer. This is, of course, quite off topic for this thread and perhaps can be episode 2 of a Panorama mini-series.

I can confirm the same is the case for universities we have visited so far. 3 A Levels, and for certain programmes, they require specific A Level subjects for at least one of those 3 A levels. Some universities, however, may have contextualised entry requirements. These are the ones that may accept a diploma in lieu of a third A level.

I would agree with the 50/50 split or the curtains over mirror option but my DD spent a few years in a dance school with no mirrors (the quintessential British local ballet class in a church/school hall). During her classes where she’s in a proper studio with mirrors, teachers often have to remind her to check the mirror to see if her placement or posture etc looks correct so I do think there’s value to having mirrors. This probably would depend on the age of the child too. The older they are, the more in tune they are with their bodies and they know how it ‘feels’ like if their placement etc is correct and they don’t need the visual cues as much.

It’s funny how experiences differ. My DD found the food on offer plentiful during one of Tring’s previous Easter intensives. She was warned by many that it is at White Lodge summer intensive that she’d need to bring snacks as the food wasn’t enough. She attended WL SI and said the food was wonderful and there was lots of it! She said she usually had 2 plates of food and one bowl of pudding every meal. I think she made the staff very happy with her appetite.

I remember those days! My DD used to attend CBA in Tring and years ago they used to put out coffee and tea and biscuits! Even back then, my DD must have been about 8, it was always the highlight for her. She used to try and get a handful of biscuits (only her!) until I warned her there were other CBA students and parents who might want some too. Some of her fondest memories are also of TPA on Saturdays when there would be a little table top cafe/shop set up by the waiting area where all the kids and parents used to buy snacks and drinks. My DD always remembers these lovely memories, as do I. TPA in particular, in our personal experience, had a very happy and nurturing vibe to it. I didn’t get a sense of competitiveness or favouritism, no drama. I digress but yes, those were positive and happy memories of that school. We don’t have experience of the full time school so cannot comment on that side of it.

I remember years ago my DD was in a summer intensive and I chanced upon a group of mums in the waiting room chatting. Their daughters were in one of the schools featured in the documentary, and were in one of the older groups of the intensive. They were all worried about their daughters’ attitudes towards food and eating in general at the time. I remember distinctly like it was just yesterday, though this was a good few years ago, what one of the mums told me: “Oh they’re all at it at school. It’s just moving from one bizarre diet to another but constantly being on some strange diet.” The whole talk hinted at competitive dieting in such a small, enclosed environment - who can be skinniest, who can have the longest lines. That conversation stayed with me for years and whilst my DD has never been in full time vocational school, since then I’ve been so vigilant in subtly looking out for warning signs. Thankfully so far, knock on wood, she’s not the type to even think about it. She doesn’t have the textbook ideal diet but I think a big part of how it’s a non-issue for her (and often oblivious that eating issues exist) is because she has very distinctively separate dance and ‘normal teenager’ lives. I remember one time we were walking towards her associates class and she was eating a burger having just come from another class. We rounded the corner and I saw some of her peers snacking on healthy bars. I told her to go back around the corner as I was embarrassed she was eating ‘junk food’. She marched on ahead and said to me “I’ve just been dancing for two hours. I need the energy.” I was told later that she even broke out some cake in the change room and shared it around. In that moment, I did think my DD had a more normal attitude towards food than me and I felt ashamed. It might be a controversial decision but my husband refused to let our DD watch the programme. His fear was that despite numerous talks and lessons on healthy eating in their (normal, non-vocational school), our DD is still quite naive and innocent about how prevalent these can be in the dance world. He didn’t want to bring the topic to the forefront of her mind when it never has.

Choose associate schemes very carefully. Don’t feel the need to join multiple ones. Some seem to me to be more about the big name, some feel like a money making business more than anything and some call themselves associates because they know there are lots of parents around looking for ‘pre-vocational’ classes to prepare their students for auditions. Look closely at the classes on offer. Would it be worth your time and travel expense to attend a class that’s only about a couple of hours long if you live miles away? Is it worth your money if your child is in a class of about 2 dozen kids where personalised feedback is highly unlikely? The best associates scheme we found is actually one that has been running for years and yet doesn’t get a lot of mention on here and nor are they active on social media.

100% agree with this. A number of concerns raised in relation to boarding schools are definitely also present in local/after school dance schools. And just like them too, parents often feel like they have no choice, for example, if they live in areas where there is a lack of good quality dance schools. I am wary of schools that are too active on social media, those that feature the same students over and over again and I find that that the more ‘happy and nurturing’ a dance school claims to be, the opposite is usually the case. The best teachers and dance schools we’ve ever encountered are those that have very limited or no social media presence. In some dance schools, favouritism is prevalent and those who are only given time and attention are those who aim to attend one of the schools mentioned in the Panorama documentary. Because it will be good advertisement for the school. Children are often too scared or worried to tell their parents how they are treated in class and worse yet, probably consider this as normal. I would be very very careful in choosing dance schools too and would exercise the same due diligence you would if you were picking an academic school or full time vocational school.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t surprised by the revelations and I actually thought that the schools got away lightly due to the programme being half an hour only, and perhaps having a limited number of individuals willing to be featured. I think it will be tricky to share tips because at the end of the day it’s a very personal choice and as parents we believe we know our child best and what they want. Personally, and this is from the angle of someone who wouldn’t and couldn’t face the idea of sending her child at 11 to board, I think there is something to be said for children starting full time vocational boarding school at an older age (ie upper school or sixth form). Puberty years would be more or less over, majority of milestone physical changes would have already happened, and they’ve matured more emotionally, socially and mentally too. This is not to say that sending your children at an older age will be problem-free. I stress that this is very much a personal opinion. The lower school age I believe is so crucial in contributing to the young adult my children are going to be in the future and I for one wanted to be there for as many moments and nights and after-school afternoons for as long as possible. I knew with certainty that I couldn’t bear the thought of only seeing them occasionally - even every weekend and school break wouldn’t have been enough for me. If my dancing DD had insisted on going away at a young age, I would have been fully ready to deal with the possible resentment in the coming years. But I know my children and I know that what they thought they wanted at 11 wouldn’t be what they wanted to be a year or so down the line. They are only young once and I can never get those years and moments back. Ironically, if I didn’t think with my heart and emotions, my kids are probably the ideal personality and character to board early. Both are extremely independent, laid back and doesn’t get emotional easily - and definitely not the type to get homesick. Thankfully for me the decision was easy as both my kids agree they’d rather leave home when they’re about 17/18. They probably won’t say it to my face but they know they’ll miss me too haha! You can totally still support your DC’s dancing dreams without them having to go away early. It will entail commitment and time and money and family time can sometimes suffer but you just need to weigh the pros and cons and your priorities as a family. I just saw a photo of the first year girls of one of the schools mentioned in the documentary and saw one (British I think!) girl who I know only went to full time vocational school last year. Only one year full time, and she got a place at that specific school. So it’s definitely possible. ENBS and Central probably have more examples of these too.

Sadly, I very much doubt it. I’ve already witnessed the ramping up of ‘preparations’ for the next cycle of auditions - booking of expensive photo shoots, multiple physio sessions, extra privates, additional classes/associates, extra coaching etc etc. This perhaps not surprisingly coincides with applications opening for entry into 2024. Despite all the discussions on here, I very much doubt this will impact much once offers go out early next year. This year, I was actually surprised at the number of those who turned down year 7 places in one of the schools mentioned. If they didn’t manage to fill those places up with those from waitlist, I assume it will be a smaller than usual class size unless they can slowly increase the numbers with international students.

I can say with certainty, for someone who has worked in the broad area of compliance and policy for years, that policies are put in place to protect institutions as much as they are there to protect students. In casework for example, policies are used and often quoted verbatim when complaints arise and as much as I hate to say this, they are there partly there to cover institutions’ and companies’ backs. When a complaint arises, one of the first things that the school or company would check is the policy and was there something that the complainant did not follow. For example’s sake, if a policy says that a complaint should be raised within 2 weeks of an incident, then they would quote this relevant section if the complaint was raised 3 or 4 weeks after. These are the small print that people don’t read until they’re done for something or when something happens. How many people actually read a school’s set of policies when picking a school for their child? Very few I’d hazard to guess. We are more likely to see the things advertised in big bold letters (Graduate destinations! Exam results! World class reputation! ). Sometimes publishing a policy is a tick box exercise.

Ofted just updated their School Inspection Handbook last month. Not sure it will go into the kind of questions they might ask but I did wonder how they pick which staff and students they will speak to. I remember for an inspection I observed in the past (not Ofsted but also one that involves educational settings), the education provider can pick the students they would put in front of the inspection panel. I remember distinctly that the provider specifically picked certain students (you can imagine the type) and it wasn’t a random process at all. The students were also briefed on what they might get asked.

Ah but policies and regulations and their implementation should be reviewed and updated regularly (if not annually, for some), not just when there’s an inspection looming. I think this is why a lot of institutions and companies get into trouble. And record keeping practices, amongst other things, when it comes to inspections.

Schools should have a data retention / record retention policy. This will vary from school to school especially since U.K. GDPR and the Data Protection Act requires institutions to keep data for only as long as they need it and with good reason to do so, other these need to be either destroyed or securely archived if needed to be kept for longer. Data retention policies are usually publicly available on institutions’ websites. It would also depend on the nature of the information you’d need. The example given on the gov.uk website is that pupil names in the safeguarding system would typically be kept on record for much longer than in the catering system.

Exactly this about policies. All schools are required to have certain policies and often they are required to have these publicly available by law or by regulatory bodies for various reasons including to continue to receive funding or be able to operate. I’m not sure how these specific inspections work as I don’t have experience in that sector but have been part of and privy to a few other inspections often with good notice to institutions and often initially starting with a desk-based exercise of documents available. It shouldn’t be a surprise that schools would have all these policies and regulations in place. What I would look at is: how updated are they and are they still fit for purpose? More importantly, are they actually being implemented? I can already see that one of those policies linked is almost a decade old and only updated once two years after since then. Covid has delayed a lot of OFSTED inspections so that might be excused.

As a parent who’s embarking on a massive open day mission - nothing to do with vocational schools - and someone who’s been working in education for what seems like decades, open days/mornings are good for looking around campus. So speak to current students and staff and absorb the general information given to you. Admire the campus. However, the atmosphere during open days is very curated (I won’t go as far as to say artificial). What I used to do, additionally, is to bring my DC to a normal day on campus where possible. This probably won’t be possible for vocational schools but just to say take open days with a pinch of salt. As someone who’s been thrown into the ballet world by a DD who loves dancing (much to our surprise as our family has zero history of dancing or interest in dancing), I can now say that it is a very small world. You’ll get more info from current and past parents than you’ll ever get from open days. Those who are most vocal are those who experienced opposite sides of the spectrum: those who are very pleased with their experience and those who really aren’t. Listen to both. And listen to those who are neutral or not even in the vocational world. Often it is this very group who gets to be the sounding board. It may not be their personal experience but it is in those very casual encounters and catch ups that you get to hear a lot. Just because it wasn’t someone’s experience, doesn’t mean it’s hearsay, especially when you talk to these people. There’s no smoke if there’s no fire. Lastly, situations change very quickly. I’ve known many parents who have been very pleased with their experience so far…until they’re not (ie their kids don’t get upper or 6th form or there’s some sort of falling out). Equally, I’ve known some disgruntled parents who are lucky enough to find another school or teacher who nurtures their traumatised or broken child. Always two sides to a story, but never dismiss either. Feedback is always born out of context.

Bearing in mind, this is probably not isolated to vocational boarding schools. I also know of concerns in local dance schools. Perhaps not so much the body shaming but definitely the verbal jibes and what can be constituted as bullying. And just like those DCs, often the child would be scared to tell anyone about it (and often the parents too), feeling they have no choice. I’ve witnessed parents who know full well that this happens in the schools but opt to keep their child in there as they feel they have no choice or because the teacher is brilliant. I’m sure a child can make it without being abused but it is a tricky one to manoeuvre.