drdance

I personally think that Fiz summed it up very well. You worked very hard because you wanted this teacher to see you worked hard, and you improved but you said yourself that you didn't really enjoy it all that much. You are lucky that you didn't get too disheartened, to the point of giving up, or becoming disillusioned. There are a lot of teachers that think that if you tell a class they aren't working hard enough then they'll work harder. But if they are already working their hardest, what more can they give? It is very frustrating to feel like you can't do any more, and only ever seem to get criticism. Think how much more encouraged you'd be if all your hard work was recognised, every so often? Personal feedback is so important - every member of a class needs to know that they count, and the best way for a teacher to let them know that they matter, is to give each participant some kind of personal comment during the class. I always try to mention everyone at least once. As a teacher you will always be watching everyone in the class, but unless you are acknowledged personally, it can feel as though you're working and working and getting very little recognition, which can be very disheartening. Add to that a teacher who tells you you're not working hard enough and I'd be screaming inside! Not great for developing confidence, self esteem and motivation in young dancers!

Balletteacher - please feel free to PM me and I can discuss with you more the type of work we do with MIDAS, as your approach sounds like it comes from a similar place. In a nutshell, what we do is take ideas from the training of youngsters, largely in aesthetic sports (eg rhythmic gymnastics, ice skating etc) including psychological elements such as goal setting, motivation etc. We also do a lot with the younger children in terms of music (having a live pianist can help!). With this age group it is so hard to find a balance between making the training demanding enough to have a physiological effect, but also to make it engaging enough that they want to work hard and love to participate.

Hahaha! Do you think he reads the forum?! I'm sure the debate will crop up again and again - it's good to keep evaluating things from time to time. Debates occur when people are passionate, and care strongly - It's great that people do care so strongly about the future of ballet and those working hard to achieve their dreams. Thank you for the PM 'Audsjcanuck'. In response: I have worked hard during my career, and have been fortunate to learn a lot from many highly respected professionals including dancers, teachers, medical professionals, psychologists and dance scientists. Having been awarded a PhD and having had work published (after being reviewed by many of those professionals) I am considered an expert in my field, although I know there is always more to learn.

Please do a very small amount of research before making assumptions about people, especially when you are questioning someones professional credentials. As well as the rest of the work I have done, I have been an observer at classes at several vocational schools during recent years. I have had pupils at vocational schools, and talked to many professional dancers and people who attended vocational schools. I would be very happy if I am entirely incorrect. I hope I am! I did say that "I am sure this does happen" when discussing how I hope learning happens in ballet classes.

Then you'll know all about the literacy focus that spans every element of every other subject - and the over-arching literacy focus in OfSTED inspections, and the requirement of teachers of every subject to correct spelling and grammar during marking and feedback! The total opposite, and extreme, from any theory of not correcting spelling and grammar in case it stifles creativity! As for dance schools having choreographic comps, classes, using student choreography in shows etc Well that's great but it does feel a bit like it's something kept very separate from the 'sanctity' of the ballet class. What would be great to see (and I'm sure this does happen) is people moving away from the ideal of students in a ballet class "being seen and not heard", and encouraging them to ask questions, to think about different ways of improving their work or each others, to share hints (especially for things such as pirouettes - those who find them easier could help those who find them harder by talking about what they do or think about), to work in pairs or small groups offering each other feedback or having their peers look out for corrections that have been given/discussed. There are other points to think about, in terms of why the UK may not be producing high level female dancers. Should ballet students all have acting/drama classes? Should they all learn a musical instrument to help improve their musicality? Should female dancers spend more time on training jumps and turns like the male dancers do, to allow them to reach similar levels of virtuosity to men? As much as people seem to dislike ballet dancers performing 'tricks', you can guarantee that a soloist performing a divertissement with multiple turns and dramatic, high jumps will receive at least a smattering of applause.

Ribbons - the teachers are not entertainers. The idea is that the students are involved in their lessons and their learning so are not passive robots. You can deliver a lesson that involves the students, as Anjuli suggested above, so that they are thinking and engaging with what they are doing. They are children - they have not got the concentration span to focus for the same length of time that adults do - so the comparison does not work. I have NEVER said that ballet should lose focus or discipline, either - it seems that people see only two types of ballet class, one where children run around without the teacher knowing what's going on, or another where children must stand in lines like regimented soldiers, follow instructions and never speak! There IS a happy medium. Of course if the delightful Gove gets his way, children will soon be sitting in rows all day, every day, reciting mind-numbingly boring facts parrot fashion.

Anjuli I so agree with you here - and the fact that you work in the USA rather than the UK says it all. Firstly I hope that this did not infer that I suggest 'making it up as you go along' - I am well versed in the strength requirements of ballet! Secondly - It saddens me that people believe that dancers who think about what they do will be unable to get a job! How else do we learn if we are not allowed to think, ask questions and understand? I realise that people disagree with me, but I do believe that ballet training can include both careful polishing of technique and fun - the two are not mutually exclusive!

At the risk of making enemies, I feel that a lot of the approach to ballet in the UK is archaic, and needs to move with the times. There is now wonderful new work by the RAD that really energises young dancers, secures their strength from an early age and gets them moving, performing, interpreting etc Of course no young dancer should be rude, and if someone is talking to them then they should be listening, but they want to dance, not stand still and be talked to! As a secondary school teacher, our lessons are judged on pace. If the kids are engaged and enthralled enough by what they are doing then they won't misbehave. If they are being talked at for any longer than a minute or two, their minds will wander and the pace of the lesson slows. That's reality of how to get the best from young people today. Little robots standing in lines being quiet, placid and 'nice' might make the class easier for the teacher, but will not produce exciting, passionate dancers who are free to think and question, and learn and discover the ins and outs of what they do.

I think it's great as long as the ballet training is good, and that the student understands the differences between the two, particularly in terms of classical posture (elongated spine, 'closed' ribcage, neutral pelvis) and the sensitivity required in the arms and hands in classical ballet. Gymnastics training really helps with the strength in core and legs/hips, power in jumps and flexibility that most dancers don't have weekly training in. I'd recommend it.

It depends on the syllabus as to how different modern and jazz are. As an ISTD modern and jazz teacher I only have knowledge of their syllabi, and while there are elements of Jazz style within the modern work there are also elements of lyrical, contemporary, musical theatre styles. The ISTD do have a 'jazz' awards syllabus where the exercises/combinations are more stylised.

As for teaching - I find the response to teaching at vocational school fascinating. I have WORKED and WORKED over my career to be qualified and experienced up to the eyeballs, including now QTS. It is incredibly hard and having just gone through OfSTED last week, I can safely say that it is the hardest couple of days I have ever faced. I was graded 'good'- and I know I am a good teacher, not just a good science teacher, but a good ballet teacher too. Yet all the experience, training, qualifications etc aren't enough to work at a vocational school. All because I haven't been a professional dancer.

I've tried to advise as many of my students (and their parents) as possible of the MANY down sides of a life as a professional dancer. Somehow they still want to do it!

I think the new grades are excellent - and once children who have been trained on the new PP and Primary start to progress through to the grades the work will really make sense and they will have the strength to easily perform the 'harder' steps. They are really carefully built up, eg transfer of weight is the foundation of the glissade and comes into primary, as does a parallel assemble. All of the jumping and springing steps will build strength and power for the sissonnes and jetes. The difficulty will come with children who go from the old grades to the new - I currently don't teach syllabus work but if I did I think I would have children who had just taken the old grade 2 to study exercises from new grade 1 and 2 before starting 3.

I think the syllabus book is quite thorough, there have been teachers courses and there is a DVD available. I always double check most of my syllabus knowledge with one of my former teachers who is an examiner (my very first exam session I had her come and do a day of mock exams!)

Nancy Osbaldeston, also a dancer from ENBS and now in ENB has also worked hard and will be dancing a lead in Petrushka soon. I believe Nancy was not at vocational school until ENBS either. Congratulations to these wonderful, hard working and talented dancers, and to the teachers who worked with them!

Genetics is going to be the major factor here! It's all to do with whether the muscles are primarily fast twitch fibres or slow twitch fibres. Fast twitch fibres are prone to bulking but generate power and speed, and slow twitch will look longer, leaner and are better for endurance. Compare a sprint athlete or footballer with a long distance runner - the difference in physiology is clear. In dance there is an issue with performance versus aesthetic. Dancers want to be able to perform all kinds of movements and be strong and powerful whilst having no muscle! As for the 'elusive' inner thigh muscle... I'd seriously love to know what teachers mean when they talk about this. If a dancer stands parallel, the inner thigh muscles are the adductors. In flat turnout 1st position, the inner-most thigh muscles are the hamstrings. Neither muscle group is actually an external rotator of the hip joint so doesn't contribute to turnout however the adductors do help. There's an interesting article here http://www.danceadvantage.net/2009/08/05/inner-thigh/ I second the suggestion to ask!

Interestingly, a dance scientist colleague told me that problems from floors occur as a result of CHANGING from sprung to unsprung floors rather than dancing on an unsprung floor constantly (think about South Asian dancers who do a lot of flat footed, heavy impact type movements usually on concrete floors and suffer few "shin splints" type issues).

Split sole pointes are only split sole on the outer sole - the inner sole will be full. Some people like to slice the outer sole to make them a bit more flexible but you do lose some support.

Hi - if I were you I'd not worry too much about it. You're young enough that you will regain fitness quite quickly but if in doubt you can try some simple pilates exercises. Are you doing gymnastics at a club or at school? You could ask your teacher or coach to show you a couple of exercises and make sure they check you're doing them correctly.

Possibly. It could just be the hamstring muscles being tight, but I use it to rule out neck issues that override hamstring tightness.

Examiners CANNOT mark down for shoes. The criteria is crystal clear, they are marking elements of technique, music and performance. If the RAD allow split sole shoes, then the examiners should expect to see them - end of story. Their personal preferences should not come into it. If the examiners as a whole had a problem with split sole shoes then it would have come up at the examiners' yearly seminars, where I'm sure it was discussed.

Haha I've no idea, actually!

adults - particularly beginners - all seem to find anything on the left challenging. Also, the combination of putting 'arms' with 'legs' is hard, so I always try to teach the legs and arms separately and then those who wish can try to put the two together. Knees generally are an area of concern in adults - as a teacher one should exercise caution with excessive grand plies or lots of plie unless the class is known to be experienced and fit and healthy. Turns should only be attempted once the dancers have a really secure releve with a pulled up knee otherwise the knee could twist. turning is also scary if you've not done it since you would spin yourself round until you were dizzy as a child! Adult beginners also have less 'body awareness' or proprioception than younger dancers. This is mostly due to experience but also due to age. Thats why hands on feedback really helps to tune in the sensory nerves to what's going on. Enchainements should be simple to allow the focus on accomplishing the movement rather than trying to remember complex combinations, and repetition of work is key. A longstanding adult class I used to teach would love it if I got mentally tired and used the grade 8 barre! It is simple and they were familiar with it.

I wish you luck in finding out what causes the problem - the other posters above are right, until you know the root of the issue it will be very hard for you or anyone else to help fix it, or even treat the pain. Let us know how you get on though! :-)