Angeline

London Vocational Ballet School (previously Young Dancers Academy): Looking for reviews, personal experiences and general information beyond what’s on their website about their training, staff, approach, and how the quality compares to more well-known ‘names’ like Elmhurst/Royal. Interested in broad info (any/all) and specific RE their associate scheme. Many thanks ☺️

Actually, in my opinion this exchange has really brought to light how strongly many people feel about this issue of duty of care, and highlights real confusion, concern and debate about where responsibility for the student lies. I am keen to hear more view on this matter, but of course do not wish to loose sight of the originally posted question(s): What do think ought to be mandatory for dance education/training providers to disclose? What do you wish you’d known at the start of your journey? Thank you.

CeliB:- Thanks for this, it is an angle I hadn’t really considered yet, but you have highlighted just how pivotal such information would be. I just cant help wonder if they would be prepared to share such information unless legally mandatory…? BankruptMum:- Oh this comment brought a lump to my throat. Are you prepared to offer further information? (You can email me directly if you prefer?) Black Swan:- Some excellent points, and a lot to think about… As you can tell from my above post, I strongly agree that some teachers do get away with ‘coasting’. Anjuli_Bai (reply to first post):- I completely agree with you, however my primary concern is how many parents are either not doing even rudimentary research before looking into choosing a school (for a plethora of reasons I grant you – I am not offering judgement), or are being conned by schools which are skilled at ‘talking the talk’ but offer a poor service, or worse, a product which is actually detrimental to the health and wellbeing of the student. And with the latter of course you do not always get reliable cues from the students themselves; if they are being continually shouted at and told they are fat and lazy they may well tell their parents (who would hopefully investigate further), but more subtle issues so commonly go unnoticed as the student simply accepts ‘this is the ways things are’. Anjuli_Bai (reply to second post):- I will concede that those wonderful beings who are fortunate enough to be professional dancers and to also poses those innate qualities which create good teachers will be able to offer the student more than those without stage time. However, I wish to press that I think these are comparatively rare birds, and that it is assumed all too often that the ex-pro status should trump any other skills or accolades. I will also add that while I think it is prudent that only ex-pros coach the next generation of elite artists (as so ideally epitomized by this video of Lesley Collier and Jonathan Cope coaching Fumi Kaneko and Nehemiah Kish), by the same token I genuinely don’t believe that it makes any real or notable difference whether or not a younger student is taught by a ex-professional or simply a good teacher in the majority of cases. PS: Thanks so much for the Jaffe info and link Pas de chat:- Oooh, yes, this is vey topical isn’t it after the recent uproar caused by Bryony Brind’s recent comments, and Judith Mackrell’s recent Guardian article ‘The Royal Ballet: just how ‘British’ do we want it to be?’ . To be honest I’m rather divided on the subject, but your comment have given me cause to think further.

I am completely sympathetic to DrDance’s cause, for I, like her, was injured during vocational training which forced me to abandon any hopes of a professional dance career; and feel, as a teacher that I have been stigmatized ever since. I know I have faced prejudice due to the absence of this experience on my CV, and that I have consequentially lost out on potential employment opportunities, and am concerned that no matter how much experience I gain, qualifications I acquire, or how skilled I grow in the classroom, that my career prospects will remain forever capped. Perhaps even more maddening, I have noticed a few recent dance teacher training courses and CPD activities advertising that experience as a professional dancer is a mandatory pre-requisite for enrolling. It certainly feels like adding insult to injury to think that my educational opportunities as a teacher are now being limited by the fact that I could not dance professionally – surely if anything I would be more deserving/appreciative of such opportunities in order to help fill in any gaps in my own experience which would aid me in becoming a better teacher?! It seems a depraved trick of fate to first rob me of my dream to dance, and then torment me with that loss for the rest of my career in dance; continually haunting me and limiting me at the same time. The irony of this situation, in light of our current discussion, is that I now truly believe I am a better teacher than many of those whom I encountered during my vocational training. That is not to be egotistical, for I am aware of my limitations, but it is honest. For instance, if I reflect back on my classes during that time period I can recall no single occasion where I was offered any instructional information, or any advice as to how to improve my work. To add context: If I have a student who is struggling to pirouette, I will analyse their work, and try to pinpoint why it is not working. When I think I have the answer, I will offer guidelines to the student such as “you seem to be lacking in momentum, perhaps try to think about opening the first arm so it leads you into the turn, rather than just thinking of whipping-in the second arm” or “instead of thinking about ‘pulling-up’, ‘push-away’ from the floor” (the latter a tip learned from Finis Jhung). Reflecting on this, know that at ballet school I never received any such feedback. I might be told my work wasn’t good enough, that I needed to ‘try harder’ or ‘do it again’, or that ‘it would be nice if you all looked like [insert dancers name here]’, but I was offered no information or advice as to how to dance better, or more effectively. Surely this should never be the case, at any vocational school. Perhaps this one of the issues which prompted Maria Fay to write her wonderful article ‘Not Training, But Teaching’ [Fay, Maria (1992) Not Training, But Teaching. Dance Gazette 210 p32-33, Royal Academy of Dance]. While I strongly agree that qualifications, certifications, registrations, associations, and all the rest do not guarantee a teacher is of a good standard, I wish it was more broadly recognised that being an ex-professional dancer is also no guarantee that they are even a mediocre teacher.

Hi CeliB – I think you raise some excellent points. Would you like then for organisations/training providers to have to publicize a list of their graduates, detailing exactly how many years they trained with the school, and what employment contracts they were offered post-graduation? Or would you prefer a graph of some sorts, just showing the ratios of student intake vs graduate employment rates?

Hi Francesizzi – Hopefully it will yield some useful information! Hi DrDance – I approve of this so much!! To all: Just to get the ball rolling a little, I wanted to add a few issues that have come up in the debate so far… ‘I wish I’d known that my school didn’t let students do pointe work till they passed Grade 8. If I’d known I would have never gone to that school’ ‘I think it should be mandatory for schools to publicise exactly what types of floor they have – there are too many schools out there with lino over concrete!’ ‘Hidden costs are such an issue at my DD’s school – I never knew about any extra costume, performance or exam costs till they were added to my bill at the end of term!’ ‘My teacher didn’t encourage extra curricula activities so there were countless workshops, summer schools, performance experiences and so much more I missed out on. It was before the internet so we didn’t have a clue, but our teacher knew, and just chose not to pass on the information. It never would have occurred to me when enrolling at the school to ask “do you encourage extra curricula activities?”!’ ‘Our school did their exams with the █████ and we had no idea that it was any different to RAD, ISTD, BBO etc. at the time. It took years before we found out that it is one of the few Dance Teaching Societies that the CDET didn’t recognise, and that their examinations counted for naught. When we first started I didn’t even know what a Dance Teaching Society was, and had never heard of the CDET!’ ‘I didn’t know that there was no pointe work in the RAD grades unless you did vocational. From Grade 5 I waited, expecting to start pointe after passing each exam. It was only when we started learning Grade 8 that I realised there was no pointe work anywhere. I just wish someone had told me’ ‘If I’d known how few jobs there was, I might never have bothered going to vocational school. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love dance, but I should have know I was never prepared to work that hard for it in the long run.’ ‘Teachers should have to publicize their full bio… I have seen teachers advertise themselves as ‘Professional Dancers’ without real experience! Some citing work that was unpaid, others giving themselves this title after only doing a one-off paid show (and not working since), and some just saying it for the sake of it. The whole things is misleading, and is tantamount to false advertising’ Please, add your own stories, and feel free to comment on the ones above.

Hi everyone! I have also heard that it can help increase boy’s/men’s flexibility and strength in the feet/ankles, and sensitivity in the feet and toes (boys do often struggle more than girls to develop this sensitivity), although I don’t think there has been any scientific study into the subject. That said, I think the theory has good merit, and as long as he passes all the safety protocol and tests as the girls, I would imagine it could be beneficial. I will add however that such action should not be necessary with correct training. From an interview read years ago I have vague recollections of hearing about boys taking pointe classes in order to better understand how their female counterparts have to change how they work to accommodate the shoes, with the ultimate objective being that they grow to be more understanding, empathic and therefore sensitive pas de deux partners. In my opinion, if he is eager to experiment, and he is in no danger from hurting himself, I say let him try it! I don’t think it is wise to stifle anyone’s enthusiasm or desire for adventure without due cause, and it could be a valuable learning experience for him. If he gets instantly put off by the discomfort and the hard work he will have learned a valuable lesson and will likely be compassionate with his future dance partners, and if he sticks with it he can go and join the Trocks! At this point however I will concede to agree with Dance*is*life that his primary focus ought to be learning and mastering male virtuoso steps, and if the decision is to permit him to experiment with pointe work, I would suggest it would remain only a small part of his dance experience and education. Best Wishes, Angeline

Hi everyone! After a recent raging debate on Twitter (#DanceTransparency), I wished to return to you guys to get your opinions and feedback. While the debate covers a broad spectrum of sub-topics, the main lead-off question is as follows: What information do you think ought to me made publically available to help dancers choose prospective schools/teachers/training? Here are a few sub-topic questions we also considered: ● What information do you believe should be mandatory for dance teachers/schools to disclose publically to help you choose the best training for you and your DD/DS? ● What do you wish you’d known about dance before you’d even enrolled for your first class? (e.g. hidden costs, post-training job numbers, safe practice) [NB: This question was triggered by a recent thread regarding limited job prospects.] ● What type of environment do you look for in a dance studio (e.g. nurturing, competitive, educative, character-building), and what would you avoid? ● Have you suffered any circumstances involving poor practice, lack of professionalism, fraud, or any other issues which would have been prevented by transparency and full disclosure? (If yes, please provide details here or, if you would prefer feel free to email your story to: AngelineLucasDance@live.com). ● What advice do you wish you could give yourself when you were first starting out, whether as a parent searching for classes for their DD/DS, or as dancers yourselves? ● Do we feel the efforts of the CDET and the new Dance Register will make any real impact on the day-to-day living of the dance community? Will parents want to cross-reference teachers/schools against these lists? Will ‘bad schools’ still survive despite these efforts? Do feel free to expand this subject of Dance Transparency, and what changes you would like to see in the dance industry. Thank you very much for your time. I very much look forward to your feedback and comments. Best Wishes, Angeline - Join me on Twitter @Angeline Dance for ballet/dance news, info, tips & videos

Hi Bluebird22! Firstly it is lovely to hear you are already doing so much for your students. Hopefully my advice and suggestions will be helpful to you. In terms of ages, I think you can afford to give your bunheads different advice to your jazzerinas – I believe for the best shot at a classical career you do want to be training in a vocational environment asap, but for musical theatre/commercial I have seen dancers start their vocational training after college and still been successful. As for whether or not you ought to be encouraging them to fly the nest as early as possible, I think it ought to be a decision made on a case-by-case basis; taking into account not just their level of talent, but more crucially their maturity, the strength of their desire for a career and how they feel about leaving home etc. Perhaps organise ‘career appointments’ – a time slot made available for you to have a conversation with each student one-on-one and discuss their options and ask their opinions on what they feel is important and what they want to do. This will give you invaluable information to be able to best advice your students on what is your recommended course of action for each of them. It will also help you identify those who may not really be suited for a career in dance, but are merely infatuated with the fantasy, or are only pursuing the idea due to parental pressure. During these appointments it might also be worth asking the dancer if they have any other ambitions and to also discuss those options; if they also fancy themselves as lawyers now would be a good time to be frank about career security and wages so they can factor that information in! In addition, don’t be afraid to put part of the decision in the hands of the vocational training providers. In other words, if the student is passionate enough, rather than agonise over whether or not you ought to be pushing a student why not encourage them to audition for full-time schools and see what the result it? The experience of auditioning will be educative for the student (potentially as good training ground for future auditions, and/or to give them a better idea of if they would be theoretically happy to stomach a career of auditions), and just being at the school will help inform the dancer if this is really what they want to do. If you opt for this approach it may be useful to talk to the student about why i.e. “this experience is to help you assess whether or not a career in dance is for you – there is no pressure as to the outcome” and “just go and enjoy dancing in their wonderful studios!” Many young dancers have a rose-tinted ideal of what a career in dance might entail, and frankly if they knew the truth many would back off before even auditioning for vocational schools! Similarly, many simply choose to audition for vocational schools as they love their recreational classes, and if they had a better idea of what training encompasses then they would not wish to embark on a programme; dancing as your hobby is a world away from full-time training. To resolve these issues I recommend to all teachers they hold ‘career days’ where you do things like: Have available prospectuses for all the major schools (or internet print-offs for key info from those schools who have gone paperless) for the students to peruse so they have a better idea of what is available.Watch a selection of ‘behind the scenes’ footage such as this video of the Royal Ballet taking company class ( ), ‘The Secret Lives of Dancers’ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L9a8NH1zq8 ), and ‘Agony & Ecstasy: A Year With ENB’ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-G3cAEDb0 ) so they have a better idea of what life as a dancer entails. Watch footage of life at vocational dance school such as this documentary series about Elmhurst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4-q6N3Ib1M ) so they have a better idea about what is actually involved in full-time training.Watch footage from different ballets/productions – many young dancers believe, for example, that if they go to a ballet school then work will come easily afterwards (“as long as I get into the Royal Ballet School I’ll be sure to make the company and then I’ll get to wear a tutu all day!”). It is helpful to expose them to ballets such as ‘Chroma’ and ‘In the Middle Somewhat Elevated’ so they realise that even if they are fortunate enough to get into some of the top companies, life will not always be about ‘Swan Lake’ and ‘Sleeping Beauty’. It might also pay you to introduce them to ‘La Fille Mal Gardée’ and ‘The Tales of Beatrix Potter’ so as to make them aware that company life might also see them dancing as a chicken or a pig; if all they want is tutus, they may not be prepared to ‘suffer’ the rest.Give a talk about the demands of the profession, and discuss how common it is for even incredibly talented dances to lose out on a career in dance through illness, injury, pregnancy, or simply loosing their passion. It is also worth mentioning that not all dancers who get places at vocational schools are destined for professional careers: they might complete their training, but be simply not good enough to get work in face of the ever-growing competition. It might also be worth mentioning at this early stage in their potential carers to discuss the short span of a dance career; if we can start preparing dance students for the fact that they will have to opt for a secondary career at some stage right from the start we will have less professional dancers suffering from emotional distress and break-downs at the end of their short careers.‘Interview a dancer’ – if possible invite a professional dancer to your school so your students can ask questions. Encourage your guest to be honest about the pitfalls and negative aspects of life as a dancer to give a balanced perspective. It might also be good to organise trips to see any touring companies in your area do company class or rehearsal – some companies are up for this if you call them in advance. Seeing the sweat up close can be an eye-opener for young students. [NB: I am aware I have written this from a ballet perspective, I just couldn’t help myself, but all the ideas are of course transferable and can be expanded.] This ‘career day’ is of course useful in informing the students about the subjects discussed, but crucially it also informs them, and you, of something more fundamental: if they are bored or disinterested then you instantly know that they are dancers who are primarily interested in ‘them doing dance’, and not in dance as an art form or as a career. These students invariably lack drive, and a ‘hunger’ for the profession which means, in my opinion, they should not even entertain the idea beyond this point. I agree with Tulip that the decision whether or not to pursue dance, and at what age, ought to come principally from the dancer and her family. By providing a ‘career day’ in this way you empower the students to better make up their minds about what they want, and then you can further support them at their ‘career appointments’. I would also suggest that the ‘career day’ ought to be open-door event, so that dancers who may have secret wishes to go pro may also attend, rather than you inviting who has already expressed an interest to you (or, in the case of other teachers, only choosing to invite your ‘best’ students, and excluding those who might surprise you!) Finally, for your students who you have sent to other teachers for additional training, you might want to forward to them this article: http://www.danceadvantage.net/2013/05/02/teachers-dont-agree/ It could clear up any problems before they arise, or that the students may feel to shy or uncomfortable bringing up. Hope that helps Bluebird22! Best wishes, Angeline - Join me on Twitter @AngelineDance for ballet/dance news, info, tips and videos, or to ask me anything I may be able to help you with or research on your behalf. Hope to see you there!

Addition: For those of you who would like to know about my experience etc., feel free to check out my LinkedIn page and Dance Advantage columnist page… LinkedIn: uk.linkedin.com/pub/angeline-lucas/51/912/28b/Dance Advantage: http://www.danceadvantage.net/author/angeline/ Thanks!

Thanks Sim, thequays and spannerandpony! Thequays – lovely to have you on board! Feel free to make suggestions for topics, tips or info. Best wishes, Angeline

Hi everyone! Just to let you know I have a new Twitter account going and you are welcome to join me: Angeline Lucas @AngelineDance (https://twitter.com/AngelineDance ) This project is all about tweeting for dance and arts lovers, ballet students and dance educators; sharing dance-related information, videos, tips and articles, and also being available for questions…. I suppose that’s the ‘putting myself on the line bit’! Hope to see you there! Angeline

‘What To Do When Your Teachers Don’t Agree?’ New Dance Article @DanceAdvantage I wanted to share with you all my latest article, which went live just earlier today. Please do share the article with everyone who might benefit - either directly, or to pass on to their own students or children. I'd also like to encourage all of you like the article to 'Like' it, share it, Tweet it and post it; I want it to reach as many people as possible, and to make sure it reaches those who will benefit the most. My reasons for wanting to write the article originally stem from the confusion and frustration I felt as a young dancer. At the time I was attending two dance schools (so as to get as much dancing squeezed into a week as possible!), and I was recieving very different instructions from both teachers. What was I to do? I respected and trusted them both, yet, at that age, I believed there could only be 'right' or 'wrong' in ballet. That left me feeling extremely confused, and rather lost. So lost it didn't even occur to me to talk to my teachers about it... not at first. When it finally did I was too afraid of hurting their feelings, or seeming disrespectful. I came acoss this frustration again when I was a little older at vocational school. I had thought that, there at least, I would finally find out for sure the ultimate 'right' way for everything. In fact the opposite was true. Now, as a teacher myself, I find I come across problems from the other side of the fence. I am saddened to read ugly comments from young dancers left on Youtube etc. criticizing other dancers for "doing it wrong" when commonly the filmed dancer is simply following the method of another School, or doing another version of 'right'. I want to reach these students and help them gain a better understanding of the breadth of the world of ballet; both so they are able to make fairer judgements of others, but also so they grow excited and empowered by the revelation. I hope it will encourage a culture of acceptance and open-mindedness alongside enhancing their overall dance education. I also hope it will help teachers who can find themselves in difficult situations if, for example, they take on a new student, or the dancer is attending two schools. Children are often more vocal in today's world, and it can be challenging to face a student who is emphatically telling you that you are 'wrong' because "Mrs X does it this way". How can you gain their trust and teach them if they fundamentally doubt your knowledge or competence? I hope therefore my article will reach those students who shared my childhood frustration and confusion, and offer them a compact but comprehensive explanaion as to why this happens. If you like this article, why not join me on Twitter: Angeline Lucas @AngelineDance. My feed will mainly be sharing news and information on ballet, dance and education for students, dance educators, parents and enthusiasts alike. Best Wishes, Angeline Additional copy of link: http://www.danceadvantage.net/2013/05/02/teachers-dont-agree/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+danceadvantage+%28Dance+Advantage%29

Addition: I just found this lovely video of Marianela Nunez and her interpretation of Myrtha so thought I’d share it with you: Incedentally, if any of you have come across any particularly wonderful examples of good courus on YouTube, do let me know Thanks!