drdance

Picturesinthefirelight do you know what 'each aspect' they are marked on is? In the age of transparency in exam marking etc meaning people can see which areas they did better on/worse on it would surely be useful to know these? Or do the schools still want to keep an 'air of mystery'?!?

The article is literally just to do with the direction that a persons thigh & knee can face more easily and how the huge variation of hip structures naturally predisposes how much the hip can flex (or hinge) and in what direction. Now if only we could safely 3D X-ray all the professional ballet dancers there might be a way of saying which hip joints were the best!!! ????

http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-have-to-squat-differently/ This article was written discussing squat positions in gym/weight training but it's a start to helping people understand why some dancers have a lot of hip movement and others don't.

@straceydor turnout should come from the hips. If it does then the whole of the dancers leg will rotate outwards. Ballet teachers and dancers train for years to know what correct technique looks like - some have a better eye for it than others too - I know you're only trying to help your DD but it's best to either trust your teacher or ask another one.

Hi Swanprincess it's very difficult to give exercises for this via an Internet forum. It's something I work on a lot in classes and in private coaching sessions. Part of the issue is awareness of the necessary muscles to engage. PM me if you want more info

Well done to all those celebrating!

Are all year groups' results out?

I noticed that too. Was it simply that there was not time in the enchainements seen in the video? Or that the teachers were looking for deeper plié at the expense of the heels? It's an interesting topic of discussion amongst dance scientists at the moment. Most technique teachers would be horrified by the suggestion of ballet dancers NOT putting their heels down, but those more curious/inquisitive scientists are asking why this is, or where this 'rule' came from. Some say that a sprinter, hurdler or jumper (concerned therefore with maximum power to project themselves as far up or forwards as they can) never puts their heels down - the reason for this is that you apparently get a more efficient push-off into a jump from a position with the heel slightly lifted. There is also now some consensus within biomechanics research that if you fully stretch a muscle immediately before contracting it, that the power produced is reduced. This therefore suggests that forcing the heels down in plié would reduce the height in a subsequent jump. Personally I felt that the heels lifting as much as in the SAB footage looked untidy, and ballet is of course an aesthetic art form. Perhaps I prefer a tidy plié and a slightly lower jump in my ballet dancers!

Wow. It's not entirely clear but do they start some kids full time training at 8?!

It may simply be a muscle strength issue. Am I right in understanding the cramp is in the lifted leg in retiré? Does it happen in both legs?

Spannerandpony - posted at the same time as you! (great minds and all that!)

Quantity of training is not as important as the right type of training. I seem to be saying this over and over at the moment but it doesn't hurt to cross-train with other styles of dance, as long as the student gets to the required technical level in ballet, to be accepted at a vocational school at aged 16. If they have faulty technique, then increasing their number of classes is only going to cement their faults. If they are not learning to appreciate music, more technique classes won't suddenly develop their musicality. If you're that worried about the number of ballet classes your DD/DS is doing - talk to their teacher, or seek advice from someone who knows what they're looking at! I don't want to be rude or insult anyone as I know some parents do know the requirements but it seems like a lot of parents are worrying about 'whether their DD/DS is doing enough' but not consulting the people who know the answer! What is right for one child is not right for every child as there are so many other factors to consider (eg quality of teaching, age, stage in puberty, diet, other activities, physique etc etc)

Yes most people enter it under modern if there's no separate lyrical section.

I totally agree with this. I wish there WAS more evidence upon which to form an answer. All we can do is learn from what has gone before in dance and what is happening in similar situations where young people are trained intensively for elite level art or sport. 'More hours dancing' doesn't necessarily result in 'better dancer'. The old adage 'quality not quantity' sort of applies here. And I think this is where the UK schools can learn from those who are expert in child training/education and take the best from all aspects ie ensuring emotional well being, fostering artistry, training technique and training fitness (strength, flexibility, control etc). My PhD research looked into training for purpose and it's a topic that interests me a great deal. The 'typical' ballet class attempts to train artistry, technique, strength, flexibility, control, power, complex motor skills such as turning/batterie all in one fell swoop. Athletes will focus on one or two of these elements per training session and wouldn't dream of combining them every session. However, taking such a radical approach in dance would, at the present time, be seen as a HUGE risk. It's something I'd love to try though!!!

However you are automatically assuming every dancer has problems with their feet or alignment on pointe! - if this theory applies then there isn't there also the possibility of throwing a dancer from a good alignment into a faulty one by switching shoes each time too?.... I think that there can be no hard and fast rule for this topic. I agree that in some cases switching the shoes over each time may help them last longer/wear more equally/help with tendencies to favour one side of the shoe or alignment etc but I don't advise doing it if you have a good and problem-free alignment on pointe.

Interesting that of some of the names mentioned as British ballet 'stars' Lauretta Summerscales trained locally (ie not at vocational school) until age 16. Tierney Heap was at Elmhurst until age 14 then went back home for 2 years. In an article I read online (http://www.balletassociation.co.uk/Reports/2013/Dean_Heap13.pdf) it says she "had felt the training at Elmhurst had been too constricting for what she needed at the time – quarter turn pirouettes when Tierney felt like doing doubles" Interesting bearing in mind the debate about training at vocational schools!!!

LinMM I don't think it's the same for flatties as we don't require the same weight bearing support from them. I've never put a right or left on my canvas ones as they stretch over my feet but I used to prefer how leather ones moulded to each foot specifically

Whether the shoes should be switched every use is debatable... At first most traditional shoes do not have a right and left although some of the newer makes do. However the more traditional shoes mould to the feet and as both feet are significantly different I personally question the practice as if shoes are worn for a class, mould to a foot they then are entirely wrong for the opposite foot, in my opinion.

If you have Sky tv they are also airing on Lifetime

This did make me chuckle slightly - I don't know how old Maina Gielgud is now but having seen her in and around ENB one might assume that dancing has taken a considerable toll on her joints! Walking seemed tough at times! But her arms & head when rehearsing were still beautiful

The issue with finance isn't really finance, it's all to do with how the directors/governors of the school choose to allocate the money that they do have ie priorities. Until cross-training, injury prevention, body conditioning/fitness training that is NOT ballet class etc IS a priority, it won't be funded. .

Karen - perhaps it's for the same reason schools don't have a dedicated specialist in this area on staff full time (ie cost). I know of a schools that do not even have physiotherapists on staff, but require students to have medical insurance. Once injured, students see a private physiotherapist (who may or may not visit the school) and the medical insurance company covers the cost of treatment. In my opinion prevention is better than cure but I don't think it's fair that a student had to get injured before the gain access to a personalized injury prevention/ rehab programme.

I totally agree with you - I think you summed it up beautifully here.

This thread raises a many issues for me (apologies for the spilling out of many of them now!) Personally I'd have enjoyed that little girls' performance just as much if she'd been on demi pointe; there's no reason for her to be on pointe but she's clearly pretty strong so only time will tell if she's going to suffer for being on pointe at such a young age Watching with my *very* critical eye, I don't think her turnout was particularly well maintained, and a short tutu would reveal this more Her performance was quite nicely 'immature' ie it didn't show a mature style of dancing but then she's a little girl and actually it was nice that it wasn't overly mature for her age I agree that in the UK the majority of dance training does not really push children to advanced levels when they are young and I think we can learn an awful lot from training of children in countries like USA, Australia and in North Asia especially in terms of the physical training but it does need to be done with care. To be able to dance to this level, you need a lot of physical strength, flexibility and technical skill and control. To get this anyone needs to be training daily and training needs to be very focussed (and as I said before, with immense care) I think that in the UK there is a general culture of frowning upon pushing young children, celebrating success, promoting viruosity. We're very 'British' in not wanting to be big headed or bratty so we inherently pass this message onto our children. Consequently our young dancers might not actually strive to be the best in the same way or at least part of them doesn't want to be the best perhaps. In the countries where we see more successful children, there is more competition as there is a larger population. We think the competition for places at vocational schools etc is steep but imagine being in country with a population 10 times larger than our own! Is it actually necessary for the all-round welfare of our children, for them to be performing full variations, en pointe, age 10?!

Liquid usually softens the glue - if they get wet they're usually done for :-(