drdance

I've just seen that the recommmended learning hours is 100 per level! My school operates 38 weeks per year so assuming pupils have 1 x 45 minute lesson a week it'll take them 3.5 years to get to 100!

It does sound interesting - I too was at the launch but to me it was full of buzz words, and the zoom launch didnt tell me anything new that the press releases, interviews and prospectus doesn't already say. I feel like it will be a lot of money to have some (albeit very good) CPD for teachers who are experienced at teaching ballet but who don't know much about current pedagogical methods. They haven't said what the recommended hours per week are for students, and I personally wonder how you can fit in teaching technique, choreography and explore repertoire all in one 45 minute lesson a week.

I still feel like it will mostly be a 'kudos' thing and teachers who have the money, can pay their thousands of pounds to access the material, do the training and use the 'affiliate teacher' title, but will teachers see that money back in earnings? 

I think they're assuming that a lot of teachers will want the kudos of being 'an affiliate teacher of the RBS' but at that cost?! It's thousands of pounds, plus the yearly fee?!?! Is it really worth it? I'm sure some teachers will go for it, but there are many ways of being a good / successful teacher, and following the RBS system of training isn't always the be all and end all (in my opinion!)

12 hours ago, DancingtoDance said:

 

I think that abuse or neglect can be intentional or unintentional, and that abuse or neglect is never okay. One way to prevent dance teachers abusing or neglecting students is to hire dance teachers committed to valuing the physical, emotional and mental health of dance students, who use teaching practices that prevent physical, emotional or mental health injuries, and that also consider challenges students may have in this area (e.g. adapting the steps of a ballet exercise for a particular student who has a temporary physical injury).

 

I think dance teachers of children and teenagers should receive training or guidance regarding typical and atypical physical, social, emotional, and cognitive development of children and teenagers, and regarding what ballet steps are and are not appropriate for a child or teenager of a certain age, previous dance training, ability in dance, physique, flexibility and strength to do. I think putting a child or teenager at high risk of injury due to demanding to do dance steps or exercises inappropriate for their age or dance ability is abuse. It is not okay to push bodies and minds beyond their current limits to the point it poses a risk of physical or mental injury. While a certain amount of training in ballet is needed for a professional career in dancing or teaching ballet, I think over-training in ballet or dance can potentially cause injury and can be counter-productive to progress in ballet or dance. I also think over-scheduling children and teenagers with activities, including academic activities, is not helpful and quite possibly harmful. Whether or not one is paying for the activities is irrelevant regarding whether over-scheduling of those activities is harmful. Just because one is paying for something doesn't necessarily mean it is worth it and doesn't cause harm, and just because some things may be free does not necessarily mean they should be taken or that they cannot harm. Parent should be aware of this.

 

 

Exactly.

However, sadly there are still teachers (in every level of dance training establishment) who have little to no training/understanding/experience of child development, child psychology, activity modification for injury, the effects of the adolescent growth spurt, pedagogy, or mental health first aid. There are dance schools up and down the country where a career as a perfomer is enough of a qualification to be a teacher. There are some dance schools where people are teaching who don't have that, or any teaching qualification or training.  There are dance schools with teachers who have done the training, passed the exams, continue to get wonderful exam results and dancers who win competitions left right and centre, yet who have unhealthy practices. 

All parents can do is try and find out as much about the school and the training as possible, and if something doesn't sound right, seek advice.

On Sunday February 6th MIDAS is opening the doors to our regular monthly classes to anyone who would like to try a session, and potentially join the monthly classes from as early as March. Classes are usually held on Sunday afternoons at Midlands Arts Centre (MAC) Birmingham, where there is parking, a large cafe, cinema and art galleries as well as access to a lovely big park - ie there's plenty to entertain other family members!

Sessions are 2.5 hours long and consist of a ballet class, conditioning and technical jazz skills (leaps / turns etc)

We have 3 levels; Level 1 is usually age 9-11 or working at grade 2-4, Level 2 is usually age 11-14 or working at intermediate foundation/intermediate and Level 3 is around age 14+ or advanced foundation and above.

Price is £20 per dancer. 

To apply, please complete the short form at https://forms.gle/ZJfoQNjK4LArUQMG7

Hi, are you familiar with PBT exercises? There are some excellent exercises that you can do on a Swiss ball or using a Swiss ball. PM me if you can’t find them and I’ll try and send you a couple. 

I just read this with interest - certainly doesn’t seem to help with the “safe dance practice” message… 

https://www.balletnews.co.uk/from-student-to-star-hanna-park-the-royal-ballet/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR0E-SyhBpsZf0CcrbGjeGOHocq6i55Y9-N2TPHv1bjO3wpj503PwEZcRfs

On 06/01/2022 at 12:36, NJH said:

that said plenty of  Dancers  dancing  into their 40s  as principals now  (Pippa Moore was 44 or 45 when she  retired as A premier Dancer with Northern , Hannah Bateman was  40 + when  lockdown 1 cut her  final season with Northern off ... )   then  you've got   the Player/Manager  dancers like Tamara Rojo (ENB) and Rae Piper (Chantry)  in their 40s  and   then those who continue ( or restart ) to guest   later still  e.g. Shannon Parker /Lilly ...

 but equally  we've seen a number of the phenoms fade from view very quickly, often with suggestion that they could not / would not  integrate into a company   if they got a contract on the strength of competition results / 'fisnishing school'  place at at Upper school  ... 

I don't know how many you deem 'plenty' but considering the thousands and thousands (if not millions) of children who are currently performing / training at advanced level across the world, (many at levels way too advanced for their physical and emotional maturity) I wonder what happened to all the others.... There seems to be a trend that is steamroller-ing on despite dance science, dance medicine, child protection advocates trying their best to stop it. The phrase "won't somebody please think of the children?!" springs to mind.

For every rare dancer still dancing into their 40's (we don't know how much pain or distress they are in, lets remember) there are literally hundreds of thousands of other people who have been harmed, either physically or mentally, by the exact same process. How many more dancers would have happier, healthier careers if the process was different? Or do we simply accept that the career of a professional dancer is a 'crash and burn', young persons realm? 

The exercises from the physio should be sufficient. A lot of the strength needed for dance doesn't actually come from dance and if you do general joint strengthening exercises there will be a cross-over. The best things include squats, lunges, deadlifts (all different types - single leg, two leg, split stance etc). Some of the PBT exercises would also be beneficial. 

As a teacher, if one of my pupils was feeling like this I would want to know. I would recommend that you talk to the teacher/school owner if possible and explain your concerns first. Does the school have a lot of older students who are taking dancing seriously? Do students who leave the school go on to further dance training? If so then the quality of the school and the training is good, so it might be that your DD needs to change groups within the school rather than leave all together.

RAD Teachers have been given a big document of hints and tips regarding how to do this so make sure that you have asked your teacher for all the details. The teacher (or another teacher) should also conduct the exam so that it is as close to the real thing as possible. Parents shouldn't be in the studio.

Hi!

Speaking as a teacher, the choreography for festivals is often WAY more advanced than a students current grade. This is a trend that has become worse in recent years, as the focus on 'skills' becomes greater than ever before. Where once a ballet solo at age 8 would be steps like spring points, galops/polkas, pretty arms and maybe an attempt at an arabesque if the child was able, now it's becoming harder and harder and it's not uncommon to see multiple pirouettes, pose turns, arabesques, developpes and split grand jetes. From a teachers perspective, it is very hard to compete against other dancers who are doing more advanced moves so there's a certain pressure to put them into dances. But there's a fine line and I personally believe that this trend for more advanced movements in young children is at best, unnecessary, and at worst, potentially harmful especially if performed or taught without care and the appropriate strength and technique. But with festivals there's always that pressure to keep up with the trends and remain competitive. 

Hello everyone! MIDAS has some places available for young dancers to start in September. We will be taking video auditions first and then possibly having a live audition later in the summer.

If you, or someone you know, has a child currently in year 4 or above, who is looking for an extra addition to their dance training please visit www.midas-dance.org.uk for more information, or search this forum for MIDAS. (There are parents of past students here who have identified themselves as such!).

Classes will be held at MAC Birmingham.

@Raquelle @Pinkpip100  @Streetdancer @balletbean  @WrapsnBows

Thank you all for your feedback. I've had a bit to think about and based on your feedback I've had some more thoughts about future directions.

Next step - larger consultation! Please complete and/or share this very short survey (less than 5 minutes) 

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/H9SQPG6

Many thanks

Emily

Thanks everyone. Still doesn’t help with my decision really!!! 
 

Do we still need a scheme such as MIDAS?

Hi everyone,

I hope you are all well. I'm looking for some help from parents and teachers regarding the current state of the dance training options for students aged 10+.

A little bit of background info:

In 2009 I finished a PhD which had a specific focus and found that professional ballet dancers did not have the fitness levels required for the demands of performance, and that technique class and rehearsal were not sufficient to train the elements of fitness needed. Therefore dancers were suffering, or at greater risk of fatigue-related injuries and illnesses. This was the first full PhD to publish a lot of data on this topic and I like to think that it has played a part in real change in how dancers are trained world over the last 10 years. 

However, my personal interest isn't in professional dancers, it is in training children and adolescents safely and effectively. Therefore, I set up MIDAS in 2011 to provide monthly additional training, with an emphasis on safe dance practice, and equal balance between technique, artistry and fitness. At the time there were very few options for students to take supplementary classes and what did exist in the Midlands were limited to RBS associates, and Elmhurst (which only had juniors at the time). 

Fast-forward 10 years and the world is very different! COVID has affected all our lives, and in recent years there's been an explosion of 'associate' / additional training schemes from anywhere and everywhere. I also feel like a lot of young dancers and dance teachers are more aware of the need of additional fitness training. Is there still a need/call for what we offered MIDAS? 

My question to parents and teachers (especially in the Midlands please) is: What are you looking for in terms of additional training for your children/students? Is this available in your area? Is there still a need for MIDAS? Are you looking for something different? Has the COVID pandemic altered how you spend weekends? (eg more priority on family time and less on travelling miles to associate classes etc). I'm interested in genuine, honest and open feedback please. 

Please do not name or identify any specific teacher, school or programme.

Many thanks,

Emily aka DrDance

PDQ - I completely agree with you regarding the adolescent growth issues however to say that the kneecap shouldn’t bear weight is perhaps a little misleading. Growth plate related conditions such as Osgood-schlatters do cause pain but not on the kneecap itself - the painful area is below the kneecap, on the tibial tuberosity. If a dancer was sliding into the splits their weight would be distributed between their hands, their front leg and their back leg. Furthermore, the part of the back leg in contact with the floor (if using the bent leg, shin vertical method) is above the kneecap not below it. 
 

As for the heel bone - when walking, the heel bone of the leading leg is subjected to a force equal to 3 times the persons body weight. Compared to sliding into splits where body weight is distributed between both hands, and both legs, this is considerably less. The anatomy of the other bones and ligaments in the ankle mean that as long as the alignment of the foot is straight, the joint is secure. 
 

As I said before - I completely agree regarding growth related issues in adolescents, and anyone who knows me and my work would know that I also advocate active flexibility training over passive (such as the splits). However the OP asked for tips about keeping square hips in splits.

How would you address this issue?  

16 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

I prefer allowing the back leg to bend a little,  so it ends up in an attitude allongé. In that position there is no danger of damaging the heel of the front leg or the kneecap of the back leg, neither of which should be bearing weight and in contact with the floor.

In that position the back knee is actually much more vulnerable to ligament and cartilage injury, especially on the medial (inside) side - a bent knee can twist (although it shouldn’t) and if bearing weight the ligaments can become strained.
 

The heel bone will not be affected by the actions of the splits - the anatomy of the ankle means that it is held very securely. The only way it could become damaged is through sudden and large force impact. It bears weight every time someone walks! And if the kneecap wasn’t supposed to bear weight what happens when people (in all walks of life) kneel? 

On 06/02/2021 at 18:38, Aurora3 said:

Yes, but often in ballet teachers want both legs turned out(and the hips on one level, of course!)!

 

I completely agree - but in order to achieve this the young dancer needs to be able to turn out out the back leg whilst keeping the hips square. Many young dancers struggle with this too and will twist their pelvis to turn out the back leg. In my experience student dancers respond well to the method I have recommended in order to understand how to maintain the correct pelvic alignment. Once that is achieved you can then work to do it in turnout. 

Chamomile - VERY wise words! Thank you for your insight. I hope you are well.

Hi,

A good tip for this is practicing sliding into splits then bending the back leg with the shin vertical and foot pointing up to the ceiling. If the hips are open, the dancer will find this very difficult. It requires more flexibility in the front of the hip on the back leg. A dancer who has a good second position / box splits but tighter hip flexors/ilopsoas will find that they naturally want to twist

Hi everyone, I hope you can help - I’ve seen a few posts on social media about a new junior engagement programme but there’s nothing on the RBS website. Can anyone tell me what this is? Is it a new programme or instead of JA’s? Thanks 

RAD are operating on a very-much reduced staffing structure so there are significant delays. I submitted video exams in mid -September. Results finally arrived by email in November and I still haven’t had report forms or certificates. It’s taking a long time to get any response to emails etc and they’ll definitely be closed over the Christmas period. Plus tier 4 restrictions won’t help. 

EEEEEEEK!!!

I would NOT like the sound of any young dancer using these! Not only is there the potential for injury whilst using it, but if a young dancer has extreme amounts of passive flexibility they are much more prone to injury when they're dancing!

Let me guess - either someone on instagram has one? If their teacher has recommended one I'd be seriously concerned...

1 hour ago, trog said:

I have found Brad Appleton's Stretching FAQ to be helpful in improving flexibility.

Useful info and at a quick glance it looks to be fairly sensible and standard science. HOWEVER..... children are not mini adults. A pre-pubescent body is physiologically different to an adolescent body which is also different to a fully-adult body. All the structures of the musculoskeletal system have a different composition and therefore behave differently. The neuromuscular compononent should also not be overlooked and this too is different in children/teens/adults.