Anjuli_Bai

"can't wait to be inspired all over again!" That's what it's all about. One of the things I used to do for myself when I was dancing and for my students when I taught was to see an audience in the mirror. Yes, the mirror is a tool to check oneself....but I would also pretend that it was an audience and thus the idea of a stage was always present. The classroom became a stage. When we did our reverence at the end of class it was to that "audience." I felt this encouraged me and my students to dance "outward" - not inward....to give it away.....as a gift.

When we discuss how dance is taught, overwhelmingly we tend to talk about teaching methods, how many hours of class, when to begin pointe work, stretching, and other elements of ballet class. But I think there is another very important element to teaching ballet - teaching it as an art form, not simply as a set of steps, poses, movement, structure. When I was dancing, I always had in the back of my mind an image of a dancer I admired and it was to that image that I projected myself. For me, it was Margot Fonteyn. I had seen her dance and that is what I wanted to look like. I think it is important to stretch the student's view beyond the classroom - to inform them of the history and to see themselves as part of the continuum of that history. Diagelev thought it was important too. He took his dancers (his dancers being the greatest of their time and the foundation of much of today's ballet) to museums, art galleries and encouraged them to seek out all kinds of art - beyond their daily scope. Today, with the availability of DVD's, this is much easier. When I was teaching, approximately four times a year, I would have my students meet in the studio on an off day, or come to my home and show them the tapes I had of the great dancers of the time - and also history. I was fortunate to have a huge collection of tapes - but many are now available in public libraries or can be bought on E-Bay, etc. I wanted my students to see themselves as part of this history. I didn't limit the showings to the "exciting" parts - but included many of the softer and slower sections such as the Kingdom of the Shades section from La Bayadere or the beautiful adage for Siegfried at the end of Act I, Swan Lake. To my happy surprise, I found that my students had no difficulty falling under the spell of the "quieter" moments. The spectacular stuff was not excluded but was part of the package. This kind of connection with the art form can also be included in the daily class - by not only teaching the "how to" of a step - but its history. And, when the students perform, to let them know they are now part of this long - over 500 yr - history. The history of the stage. So - this brings me to.....are the studios/schools which your children attend offering this kind of "beyond the class" view - are they being shown the bigger - and deeper - history? Are they encouraged to attend performances? There are also some wonderful books with pictures - are they encouraged to read them? Is there discussion of line and shape in those pictures? We used to sit on the floor with some of those pictures and actually measure out the triangles created by a beautiful lift or a lovely arabesque - so they could see what made it - not just "correct" - but beautiful. We also discussed how to photograph ballet which was helpful to them when they needed to send off a picture for an audition. Are they encouraged to read the bios and autobios of famous dancers?

Aurora: I'm afraid you missunderstood me or more likely I wasn't clear. By "both" I meant (A.) perfecting movement and (B.) thinking about what comes next. NOT "both" meaning syllabus and freework. My word "both" did not include syllabus work. Learning to perfect movement while thinking about what comes next does cover all bases. It's what the student and/or dancer faces from the first audition onward. A teacher who is considered as "qualified" by a syllabus is only qualified for that syllabus. As for the parents getting some indication of how the student is doing by way of exams is learning only that - how a student is doing for that exam. Not how the student compares to dance students in general. A huge part of learning how to dance is learning how to learn. How to quickly incorporate movement. How to "see" and how to "hear." And doing the same sequences over and over defeats that learning process, in my opinion. In the USA very few schools are syllabus based and yet we have no problem producing dancers of excellent quality - far more than we can employ unfortunately.

Well, I do differ.... The training is about both - perffecting movement while thinking about what comes next. That's the entire point, as i see it. Exams give a parent an idea of how the child is doing within the syllabus - nothing else. And it only says how well the school does in teaching a specific syllabus. A teacher with a certificate given by a specific syllabus only speaks to that particular syllabus - not to how well he or she teaches dance. The assurance is only syllabus specific. And even then, in my experience, it is not in any way complete. There are syllabus teachers who have not ventured beyond that book or introduced new music -even symphonic music. As for ex-professional dancers teaching class - some are wonderful and some are not. But a good teacher is not necessarily a famous ex-professional dancer - some excellent ones have spent their entire lives teaching. Passing an exam only says that the student has learned to execute a specific sequence of steps - almost no matter how long it took to learn it. It says nothing about the ability of the student to incorporate new movement, to listen to and move to new music on a daily basis. All of which can be presented both age and developmentally appropriate. That's what a good teacher does. Daily.

I agree with this. I don't think that turnout should be emphasized at such early ages. The bones are still relatively soft and still cartilege in many places and there is a greater possibility for damage. The very young child should be introduced to movement with music and movement within a group - there is more than enough to keep them busy. And I certainly agree with the over emphasis on exams and syllabus. Class should always be different every time. Not drastically different - but different. (instead of tendus starting to the front - start them to the side) It takes extra work for the teacher to do this but I feel it is essential - from the very beginning. Dance should never be done by rote.

Reading some of the posts above which discuss how many hours of practice are needed - I am reminded of a book about the great Prima Ballerina Galina Ulanova. In this book the author follows her around through her day - for several days. At this time she is already a Prima - world famous. This particular day was a national holiday in the USSR and everything is closed. However, Ulanova gets dressed, goes out in the cold snowy weather, goes to the Bolshoi school, uses her private key to go in. The building is empty, silent and cold. She turns on a light in a studio and starts to give herself a ballet class. When the author, who has gone with her, asks why she is doing this her answer is: "I need the practice." The need to practice never stops - and all her life she answers the need.

Quote: Anjuli, what is the position in the US, particularly in the large ballet companies? The large ballet companies are certainly a mixed group. ABT started out and has continued as a very mixed group of dancers - and it was always meant to be so - from the beginning. NYCB seems to be more "American" based - but still has lots of dancers from other places - and always did such as Violette Verdy and several dancers from Denmark, etc. I think one difference is that the Royal Ballet started out as a showcase for UK dancers and, correct me if I'm wrong, at one time did not hire dancers from outside the Commonwealth, except as guests. American companies never really did that. So, we don't notice a difference - a change. Another difference is the size of the population base from which we draw. We also have a tremendous variety in teaching styles - few schools here are syllabus based. I've had teachers who spanned the spectrum from Cecchetti to Balanchine, from Russian pre-Vaganova to Russian post Vaganova, from Loring to Craske, from German based to French - and even teachers from the UK like Elaine Thomas former ballet mistress and Keith Martin from the RB. As far as I know - no company here has ever set out as a showcase for American dancers - American style, perhaps, but not just native born Americans. The only time there was a problem was when the Russian dancers who defected from the USSR (a major news story) eclipsed some very fine American dancers. But that wasn't really the fault of any training lapses or even company policy - it was the "fault" of an ignorant audience. But that view seems to have melted (hopefully) away especially as the Russians are free to come and go and don't have to defect. As for the Cubans who do have to make a choice - everyone accepts them and is glad to have them and I don't think it has caused any contretemps of which I am aware. And Aileen - as I said above - "I also have to say that many times when I wondered how these children came by these self absorbed attitudes - I got my answer when I met the parents. Not all the time, but many times." Which is what you are affirming in your post #17.

Melissa Hamilton is a good case in point. I think that as time has gone on the template for the ballet dancer has become very restrictive. Potential students are rejected based on a picture. A picture cannot show musicality or dedication. Granted there are some standards of form which have to be met - such as a foot that can accomplish pointe work. Or a reasonably flexible back. But the standards have now gone way beyond that. This restricts the field of possible future dance-artists. I"ve purposely linked the words "dance" and "artist." I have never seen Melissa Hamilton dance, but from her pictures she seems to have all the "correct" equipment. So what did the teachers at prestigious schools miss? And what did that one teacher (a Russian, as I recall) see? Perhaps that Russian based teacher looked beyond what was happening and saw Melissa's heart and knew that given a bit of time, Melissa's heart would inform her body. That teacher didn't make a cold assessment - she made a warm assessment. She didn't use a template - she used her gut. It has been my experience that the little "mouse" who hides in the back line because the showier students drown out her presence - is often the one with the heart. Despite her/his emotional banishment by peers - that quiet mouse is very often the greatest joy to teach. It's difficult to find those little mice, but they are there in every class. As to the specific question - why so few UK born dancers make it to the top ranks - there could be several reasons. The population mass is a small one - comparatively speaking. Funding could certainly pay a part. And, also, perhaps the pervasive use of syllabus teaching.

The prevalence of PC teaching not only often gives the student a less than stellar result but is also a problem for the teacher. When I first started teaching ballet one could simply walk over to a student and adjust a foot position or an arm. One could give a verbal correction (albeit as positive as possible) but still a correction. However, in the last couple of decades before touching a student at all (including an encouraging arm around a shoulder) I had to remember where I was - if in a school district - no, but if in the studio - maybe yes. Of course, then I had to try to remember who had given permission and who had not. So, I ended up walking around most of the time with my hands behind my back. As for self esteem - placing a student in a performance line up on stage could not be based upon height or ability though I usually choreographed for my students so that everyone ended up at some point in the front. To them (and the parents) what mattered was the initial tableau. Well, the entire class just can't all be in front at the same time. The same with colors of costume - pink was considered to be more "valuable" than, say, yellow. (that came as news to me!) ** So, the student learns that no matter how well he/she has bothered to learn the dance - he/she is entitled to stand in front. And, a lazily pointed toe is just as good as a fully engaged foot. Not having lived in the UK, I'm not sure that the USA is more extreme - I think it also depends upon where in the USA one lives. I think we have mixed up our messages from: "Everyone is valuable" and "everyone has potential." (now find out what it is and work for it) to "Everyone is entitlled to happiness.and success." (it's your due) In the last year in which I taught within a school district, when I said to a 13 yrs old girl in a very crowded ballet class while pointing to a barre that she couldn't see from her vantage point: "If you use the barre over there you'll have a lot more room." and she replied: "No. I won't move unless you say "please." Not only that, she insisted I say it in Spanish - por favor. How does a child like this compete for a job? How does she treat her supervisors? Her fellow workers? How does she accept correction? Does she appreciate when someone is trying to help her? Multiply this "entitled" child by millions. I also have to say that many times when I wondered how these children came by these self absorbed attitudes - I got my answer when I met the parents. Not all the time, but many times. **There was one time I grafically showed the parents (mostly mothers) exactly why those standing in front (at least initially) were in front. But, that's another story.

Stretching should take place between barre and center and then as a cool down after class. This should be done as a regular element of class. Just like pliés or tendues. Actually, stretching takes place throughout the barre and center. For instance, every grand battement is a stretch toward a split. These elements can't be seen as separate entities - but as part of a whole.

That's a really good question. Let's walk through this..... It is not recommended that one practice barre or center at home. Ballet is not like other studies where there is "homework." Even the busiest professional dancers take class - only in emergencies or one off situations would they give themselves class. Since the stretching needs to be done after one is warmed up - and you need a ballet warmup to warmup those muscles to be stretched for ballet (it goes hand in hand) one comes to the conclusion that stretching without barre and center is not recommended. Unfortunately, neither ballet class exercises (barre/center) nor stretching for ballet should be done on one's own. Both need to be done under supervision of a teacher. I know that it is tempting - the rationale one normally adheres to is "if you want something work harder." However, when it comes to ballet we must add the caution "it has to be done under supervision." Why? We are simply not capable of seeing how our own body is operating when it comes to producing what is necessary for ballet. We cannot truly "see" our own alignment - we can learn to feel it - but it needs constant supervision from an outside source. The body "lies" and "cheats." It wants to take the easier route. And it will. Thus, the wrong muscles are engaged and learn incorrectly. It takes twice as much work to unlearn the wrong stuff than it takes to learn the right stuff. And what good is it if the split is incorrect? or the hips are not correctly aligned? or the standing hip is not pulled up? or the backbend is done by pushing forward at the hips? or the spine is not correctly connected to the core stomach muscles? or all four quadrants of the abdomenal muscles are not equally engaged? or the shoulders not straight? or the head not correctly aligned with the arm in a backbend? etc. I surely wish it were different. Many times I wanted to stretch at home - stretching for me was vital - except for turnout - I was not a naturally flexible dancer and had to work at it everyday inbetween barre and center and a cooldown stretch after class (being careful to dress warmly on the way home).

To Aileen's questions: Question: FIRSTLY, do how classes? Do they them at home, hire studio and coach, perhaps others, or make arrangements to classes with a friendly ballet company? Answer:They would not do them at home - at least not for more than a day or two. So, the options are to hire a studio and teacher/coach, and/or network with other dancers, or go to another company and ask to take company class. Whether they are charged or not or allowed to depends upon the school/studio. Question: HOW for s and to classes a long does it take dancer lose fitness technique once he stops doing rehearsing regularly? Answer:I can't recall if it was Fonteyn or Nureyev who said this - but the general thought is: skip class one day and you will know it skip class two days and other dancers will know it skip class three days and the whole world will know it. Class is essential in order to rehearse and perform. It sets the dancer up for the rest of the day. Question: SECONDLY, to a it dancer is really possible perform (particularly piece which the has not danced before) high standard without coach? Answer: It is not possible - even for a role which the dancer has danced many, many times. The body "lies." It tells the dancer - even a very experienced professional dancer - that it is doing one thing whilst it is doing quite another. It "cheats." Little descrepanices creep in, minute changes occur which the dancer cannot catch. It takes another "eye" to see what's happening and to rectify it and let the dancer know. I remember reading about Fonteyn having trouble with her fouettés and it wasn't until Nureyev mentioned to her that her shoulder was misaligned that she was able to correct it. As experienced as she was - she needed another "eye." Question:I how they and is know there?s youtube nowadays of course fellow can help but this an adequate substitute? (I?ve also wondered dancers prepare gala pieces where get their costumes from. Answer: Youtube is no substitute for a teacher and/or a coach. Usually the teacher deals with technique and a coach deals with a particular role or dance. The coach helps with interpretation and presentation and is someone (usually) who has either danced that piece many times and/or worked directly with the choreographer. The costumes are designed and made by the Company or someone to whom they contract to make them. The designer designs them, the maker - well, makes them. Both are art forms. Usually, the soloists and corps members share costumes from one production to another. And, usually, the costumes are made to measure for the principals. If a dancer is not a member of the Company but freelance - then costumes would either have to be bought from someone willing to sell or specially made by a costume maker. Costumes are very expensive and take on a life of their own. It is often a tradition for each dancer to sign his/her name on the inside of the costume. Question: Thirdly, how long do you think a top ballet dancer can dance at the same or at a similar level once s/he has left the structure and discipline of a ballet company? Does it make a lot of difference if the dancer moves into more contemporary ballet? Answer: Depends upon how vigorously the dancer is able to replace that structure and discipline with outside resources. Generally speaking, it doesn't work very well much of the time. It means constant moving about to seek employment and accessing and depending upon local resources. Again, generally speaking, contemporary dance is not as structurally demanding and some ballet dancers have successfully moved into contemporary dance to extend their dancing lives - Baryshnikov comes to mind. I'm not saying its easier - but its demands are different - and the choreography can be designed to suit the particular needs of a dancer. It's not like trying to meet the demands of Swan Lake as choreographed by Petipa. Since in contemporary dance there are no strict rules - the dancer has more of an opportunity to make his or her "own." I hope this helps.

.....appreciated and needed.

However it is decided to divide up Doing Dance, including as JulieW suggested above, I'm fine with (uh oh a stray preposition!) I am also more than fine with JulieW as a moderator of any or all Doing Dance. I would be happy to have the "So, You Want to Learn to Dance" articles republished sa JulieW suggested above.. There were actually a couple more that never got submitted/published and could be this time. I have them all on my computer if they cannot be retrieved from the former site. I think it would be interesting, if it is decided to do this, to have them in an interactive thread so that new people can respond rather than the magazine format. What we did before was to have them in an interactive thread and then Bruce put them into the magazine format. As an aside response to JulieW above - I can't understand a ballet school which does not encourage attendance at a live performance. And, if that is simply not possible because of assessibility -- then at least DVD's. I used to do both with my students at least a few times a year and it was very successful.

It is important to stretch when warmed up. Stretching cold is like pulling on a cold rubber band. You will notice that if you do that the rubber band develops tiny tears along the edges. The best is to stretch between barre and center. And, maybe a bit more after class. The problem with doing it after class is that when you stop and go home the muscles are exposed to cold air (outside) and usually sitting as one drives home. One must stretch only when warmed up and then keep moving a bit (like walking) afterwards to slowly cool the body down. Warmed up means working the muscles - that's heat from the inside out. It does not mean taking a warm shower or putting on a topical gel. The muscles must warm from use (like a barre) and then they are ready to efficiently and safely respond to stretching.

I have to disagree. It's not a matter of suffering....it's a matter of damaging that very important tendon to the point where it ends a career. A torn Achilles tendon can happen in a moment.

Flexiblity for most of us is a slow process. It cannot be hurried or injury will occur and then what has been gained will be lost. And, remember, a child's body is changing which slows the process a bit more. Don't give up - but give it time.

Should she further damage her Achilles - this has the potential to be a major (even dance ending) event. She should not go beyond what she has been allowed to do by those professionals advising her. All else has to be put aside until this injury has completely and positively healed. Tendons heal with scar tissue and one event leads to another with cummulative effect. How long this takes is individual - but it takes what it takes. Be sure to check her street shoes, too - and make sure that you get good advice on what is suitable. That tendon has to be rested with no ifs, ands, or buts. Her schedule doesn't matter - what matters is this tendon. It is a vulnerable tendon because it is not only a major one but doesn't have a sheath. There is good reason "Achilles heel" has the connotations that it has! So, as sorry as I am to say this, and as badly as I know she feels about this - there is no rushing the healing process - and no rushing the time needed. Rest - Ice - Elevation. Try to keep it elevated above the level of the heart (difficult, I know) - as much as possible. I wish her well - and a complete recovery. I wish I had better news - I truly do.

When I first came here - about 2002 - the Doing Dance Forum was VERY quiet. There were very few postings on either technique or schools/clothing, etc. But when a question on technique did come in, I tried to answer the question to the best of my ability and others began to chime in and the Forum began to spark a bit more. Then I wrote a series of articles - one a month for a few years - called "So, You Want to Learn How to Dance" (long before any TV show). The premise was to discuss and answer the fears and questions of an adult beginner in ballet class - which also applies to children in many areas. Though written with a light touch (with a smile and a chuckle) in a question/answer (conversational) format it did address serious questions and concerns. Bruce did a beautiful job in putting it into the magazine with each article connected to the previous ones. That series engendered a lot of response and really woke up the Doing Dance Forum. It also caught the attention of the BBC (I think it was channel 4) and I was asked to be on a panel - until they realized I was in San Diego and the time difference made it impossible. But it was gratifying to see the response. As time went on, the Forum became livelier and livelier. Then it slowly began to take shape as it is now with more and more parents networking on schools, auditions, exams, etc. Since I am not part of the local (UK) scene I cannot participate in "which dance store is better" or "when do the auditions take place?" etc. So, my participation has fallen off - though I check in to see if a dance technique question has arisen or other subject to which I can (hopefully) contribute. One of the advantages to not being part of the local scene is that I'm seen, I think, as an impartial voice. I have no stake in a school or particular syllabus. For that reason, I do get a number of PM's and e-mails asking for an opinion or just someone needing reassurance. I am most humbled by that trust and I take it very seriously. And, when appropriate, I do encourage the correspondent to post the question on the board so that others can participate. So -- that's Doing Dance through my perspective. It might be interesting to divide it as Bruce suggested above and see what happens. It might keep the technical stuff from being buried amongst the various school/dance store stuff.

Hope I remember to look tonight - right now its 2:23 in the afternoon......

I sure hope this isn't danced on pointe.....those toe joints are in for a shock. Seriously, weight should be a concern when going on pointe.

I can't imagine buying shoes - any shoes - street as well as dance - online. In a shop I rejected so many pairs before I would find a good pair, I don't see how that could possibly have worked buying them online. I know that many people don't live near a shop - but that still doesn't solve the "buying without trying" problem of online shopping. I guess I feel the same way about leotards, too. But, especially about shoes.

Re PoIunin: I think this is a case of too much, too soon. It works for some but not for others. By the way, it always amazes me when one sees Plisetskaya offstage, with other people - like her husband - how petite she is. She was always so "large" on stage - she filled it so completely, its hard to remember she is really physically petite.

Performances seen & general discussion Ballet / Dance news & information I like it.

It seems ....probably just me....but.....when I come to this board I come directly to the "Forum" page, I don't come to the Ballet.coForum (Home) Page - thus I don't get to see a "help" page. It might be nice to have the list which includes "help" on the "Forum" page. Lots of time I come here by way of an e-mail notification of a thread I am following so there's no reason for me to go to the home page. Well, anway .....some kind of "help" link on the inside pages.....or if its already there - I missed it - (what else is new?)