Progressing without exams

[Footloose48]

Hi my dd is currently doing a couple of grade 4 & intermediate foundation rad classes. She particularly enjoys her intermediate foundation and loved the RBS JA classes which have now come to an end. Unfortunately she’s not so keen on doing the grade exams so we’re thinking of just going intermediate foundation classes perhaps once a week (she is not going down the vocational route). Is it possible to just do intermediate foundation and progress without the exams for example? She particularly loved the JA classes (although online) because she felt challenged but had no exam/grade pressure. Thank you for any thoughts. 

[Pas de Quatre]

Non syllabus classes would be better than Grade classes if she doesn't want to do the Grade exams. However, Vocational exams include pointework and pupils should be doing at least two ballet classes a week or more. One ballet class a week is not enough for pointe.

[Kate_N]

Many other countries don’t use the graded exams syllabus of the RAD. Any progressive structured syllabus is fine, and no-one needs to take ballet exams if they’re studying ballet for the love of it! Could she do the grade classes to build strength and technique? Doing lower level classes together with a level of class which is a challenge, is an excellent way to build technique and ability to do the more advanced work.

 

Also because one class a week isn’t enough for the IF work, nor for pointe work - that is, for pointe work to be done well and safely.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Kate_N

[NeverTooOld]

I've been in classes with students that don't do exams but just learn the syllabus along with everyone else and then just move up to the next grade when the others do their exams. Exams are not essential but working your way up though the syllabus for each grade is really useful in terms of strength and technique. Some people just find exams too stressful so want to focus on only enjoying the dancing which is fine. With RAD, grades 4 and 5 are a bit more modern but then 6 and 7 are very classical and beautiful so really enjoyable to work through. Also there is no character or free movement in the vocational exams so she would be missing out on learning that.

[Blue Box Ballet]

This conversation highlights that so many private/ recreational schools simply ‘teach to the test’ by providing syllabus only based classes. A syllabus in the (current) RAD sense should only be used as tool for assessment, not as a training system. I must caveat that from my brief introductions, the old RAD grades and Cecchetti grades seem to be the exception here as they were/ are not overly choreographed and allow the students to concentrate on getting the basics right.

I would like to believe that most teachers out there would actually break down vocabulary and not simply teach to the set (as current ‘busy’ RAD) syllabus settings. But I have taught so many students over the years who admittedly have all the exam certificates but have little understanding of classical ballet technique away from their set exercises.

 

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I am very much looking forward to hearing more about/ seeing the results of the new RBS Affiliate Training and Assessment Programme. Having attended their amazing Inspire Seminars & Enlighten webinars, I can say that they really are leading the charge to improve and broaden our approach to ballet training here in the UK.
 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Blue Box Ballet

[EverHopeful]

Completely opposite point of view here. I adore syllabus and exam work. I find it gives a sense of purpose, something to work towards and a clear framework for progression. 

I completely agree that if an individual student decides that sitting the exams isn’t for them, then absolutely they can just progress to the next level when they are ready.

But free class alone (with no other supporting syllabus lessons) can only be fun for the purely recreational dancer.

[taxi4ballet]

In order to progress via Inter-foundation and upwards, IF would probably be all right just taken as a once-a-week class, but from Inter upwards, one class a week would be nowhere near enough to build or maintain the physical strength required at that level, especially for pointework. Most students doing the vocational pathway will also take grade classes simply to get enough hours of training a week.

[Kerfuffle]

My daughter took all the RAD exams up to and including intermediate. She’s now doing syllabus free work and it’s so much more interesting for her  as the exercises change with every lesson. Ideally the exercises should be varied until getting near to the exam when they can be taught in a relatively short amount of time - but I guess this is impractical from a teacher’s perspective? My daughter learned g5 in one term and managed to get 90 in an exam so it must be possible! (She was also doing classes in intermediate at the time I think). This was in a group class not one to one. 

[Kerfuffle]

11 hours ago, EverHopeful said:

But free class alone (with no other supporting syllabus lessons) can only be fun for the purely recreational dancer.

I’m sorry I can’t agree with this - my DD and her friends are all advanced dancers doing free work and most are aspiring ballerinas. They learn all the same steps but also have the freedom to learn professional repertoire. 

[Blue Box Ballet]

18 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

My daughter took all the RAD exams up to and including intermediate. She’s now doing syllabus free work and it’s so much more interesting for her  as the exercises change with every lesson. Ideally the exercises should be varied until getting near to the exam when they can be taught in a relatively short amount of time - but I guess this is impractical from a teacher’s perspective? My daughter learned g5 in one term and managed to get 90 in an exam so it must be possible! (She was also doing classes in intermediate at the time I think). This was in a group class not one to one. 

Sounds like you daughter has a great forward thinking teacher! 

This type of planning structure happens in sports. 
Let’s take gymnastics for example, they don’t just run the routines over and over, they work on the fundamentals/ individual elements and only then do they put it all together in the run up to a competition to be ‘assessed’.

 

The same thing happens in vocational dance/ ballet schools. Although they have schemes of work or a system of training, they do not work to pre-prescribed set exercises eg a syllabus. Then in the run up to an assessment they put it all together in a more choreographed form.
 

Surely this is much better for developing the ‘thinking dancer’ able to respond to different approaches and gives the teacher more flexibility to design classes for the students they see in front of them.

It’s also worth noting that the hugely successful Vaganova ‘syllabus’ is more akin to a training system with its clear methodical build of of vocabulary and is not a (choreographed) syllabus in the same way we understand the examination bodies such as the RAD - perhaps a translation anomaly. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Blue Box Ballet

[Kerfuffle]

I absolutely agree with you about training the thinking dancer - it helps musically too because she really has to listen and interpret it as she goes along - it’s less about counts and more about rhythm and feeling the phrases. She is actually taught vaganova so would relate to what you’re saying. Being able to learn quickly is essential as a professional and also helps in auditions. Associate classes vary their exercises each time as well. I don’t think RAD was supposed to be teaching to the test it’s what it has become probably for practical reasons of different students moving into classes all the time.

[Kate_N]

15 hours ago, EverHopeful said:

But free class alone (with no other supporting syllabus lessons) can only be fun for the purely recreational dancer.

 

Er, no, sorry - most pre-professional dancers train in that way, and daily class for professionals is always a "free class." Some teachers might use a repeated set of exercises at the barre, so that pupils can focus on the quality of technique rather than having to cope with unfamiliar choreography, but the use of syllabus in no way guarantees a "better" training (from what I've seen over the years, sometimes quite the reverse). 

[Kerfuffle]

Maybe for much younger children the syllabus is a good idea as long as they don’t get stuck in the same grade for too long. However as @Kate_N writes professional/pre-professional classes are always free work. I think most other nations such as in  USAtrain without set syllabus exams. 

[EverHopeful]

Apologies, I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I was just giving my opinion. I probably didn’t word it in the way I should have. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by EverHopeful

[Pas de Quatre]

Indeed, too much use of syllabus can be detrimental to a young dancer's development. Many syllabii are so rigid, and the teachers that have a particular examining board's certification often have no knowledge of anything outside their own syllabus.

 

With regard to the Vaganova syllabus there are clear expectations of what should be taught at each level. However there is no set work. Each teacher is expected to devise their own classes and route to the required goals. This is why when you read about graduates of the Vaganova Academy in St. Petersburg it always says "class of ...." with the teacher's name listed. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Pas de Quatre
Add last paragraph

[taxi4ballet]

A graded exam syllabus is probably the best thing for recreational dancers, but for vocationally-minded students it is, by its very nature, rather limiting. That's where free work plus workshops and associate programmes all come into play.

 

I once remember talking to the mum of an exceptional young dancer who was already at vocational school. I asked what grade he was doing, and she said, oh no, he doesn't do grades, they just teach him what he needs to know. 

[Footloose48]

Thank you all - what interesting responses! There’s no right or wrong way it seems. But I do feel a bit more confident to now actually say DD will not always do the exams. I feel she really thrives on free work and holds back in her exam classes at the moment. All very interesting! 

[Bex]

I wish there was more free work in DD's ballet classes. The RAD syllabus is used in every lesson. It means she gains muscle memory for certain combinations of steps rather learning a step in isolation that she can use in different contexts. Luckily in her other dance genres there is lots of free work so it is a workout for body and brain and means she is great a picking up and memorising routines quickly. Sadly she is losing her enthusiasm for ballet as the endless repetition is boring. They also tend to keep them put in a grade for ages to guarantee lots of distinctions when they finally do the exam. Very much teaching to the test.

[Kerfuffle]

@BexMy daughter didn’t even know the names of steps until about RAD grade 3 because she didn’t need to! Maybe your DD could find an associate class or join her school’s performance group if there is one? 

[taxi4ballet]

5 hours ago, Bex said:

I wish there was more free work in DD's ballet classes. The RAD syllabus is used in every lesson. It means she gains muscle memory for certain combinations of steps rather learning a step in isolation that she can use in different contexts. Luckily in her other dance genres there is lots of free work so it is a workout for body and brain and means she is great a picking up and memorising routines quickly. Sadly she is losing her enthusiasm for ballet as the endless repetition is boring. They also tend to keep them put in a grade for ages to guarantee lots of distinctions when they finally do the exam. Very much teaching to the test.

They need to do more otherwise they get bored silly and stop trying. My dd's local dance school (one she left at about 13, and largely for this reason) was very much insistent on taking an exam before you could move up to the next one. Due to the RAD changing syllabus, she was in Inter Foundation for nearly three years, and her teacher did say she could join the Intermediate class as well. I asked more than once if she could just move up to Inter, but was met with a flat no, she had to take the IF exam first. Then, some weeks later, they came out of the Inter class and the teacher said to me 'Do you know, it's really funny - she dances far better in intermediate than she does in her inter foundation class'.

Doh.

[Bex]

@KerfuffleShe does an associates class already which has made her up her game dancing alongside other keen and talented young dancers. She would love more performance experiences and I am keeping my eyes peeled to see if EYB come to our area (despite a not great audition experience years ago which I mentioned in another thread!) I've explored her taking extra classes at her regular dance school but it's not come to anything.

@taxi4ballet We go through a similar thing every grade. She likes the challenge of trying to pick things up quickly but sometimes it is broken down and taught so slowly that even new work gets dull. Gar!

[Kerfuffle]

Hi Bex doing associates should help, as well as taking advantage of other performance opportunities. Perhaps this time around she’ll enjoy the EYB experience more. Otherwise you can look out for workshops that pop up sometimes - Eg Nutcracker workshops. Vocational grades can be even slower than the number grades!