Irish Students - Uk ballet experience, tips, recommendations PLEASE :)

[TwoLeftFeet]

Hi all

 

We are an Irish family looking to send our daughter to a UK ballet college or possibly further afield.  We are not from a dance background and our daughter is the only person we personally know doing ballet, so we are totally in the dark about the whole scene!

 

We are looking for tips, recommendations and experiences of families that have done similar.  Its a minefield out there from our perspective and very hard to know where to start.  

 

Our school years are slightly different to UK school years.  Their big exams, the Junior Certificate, are in 3rd year, so my dd would be 15 doing her JC. In alot of secondary schools 4th year here we have whats called Transition Year.  Its like a break from studies before they go into the senior cycle to try other subjects and work experience.  Alot of kids don't choose to do it but our dd would like to take that year but go to a dance college/school instead.  She will be turning 16 in October 2019 doing this route and then will return to school in Sept. 2020 to start her 2 year senior cycle in school.

 

Alternatively, we could send her at 16 to a UK or other college/school to start a 3 year course.  For those that have done this, how have you found the process/system/fees/schools?  Do you regret not completing your Leaving Certificate at 18?  We have so many questions and are very unsure what the right thing to do is so any help, guidance or advice is very much appreciated.

 

Thank you

[Frogsmum]

Hi TwoLeftFeet

 

Welcome to the forum! I know very little about ballet training in Ireland, but have some understanding of the education/Leaving Cert process.

 

It looks like your DD is 14 and in the UK would currently be in Year 9. Year 10 and 11 are the GCSE years, so if you were looking to send her to a UK school, then she would most likely have to start in Sept 2018 (Year 10). There are often a few places available for year 10  - see the thread regarding breaking in to Yr 10/11! Is your DD set on a classical dance, or a broader range?

 

You could consider schools such as Elmhurst, Tring, Hammond and Royal for year 10, which will offer a good education, dance training and there will be accommodation in a residence hall. However the audition process has already begun, and in some cases, applications may already be closed, so you would have to start now. To be honest, it is very difficult to get into a dance school in year 11.

 

Alternatively she could complete her Junior Cert, and you could try for post 16 training in Sept 2020. There will be a lot more choice of schools available and this forum has a huge amount of info on the upper school threads. You don't say where in Ireland you are located or how much training/style your DD is currently doing, but I would try and make sure she has access to the best teachers you can find over the next 2 years - most likely Dublin or Cork in the south (I don't about the north). Could you also consider an associate scheme in the UK, where she may be able to come fly/rail over on a weekend to London, Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester to access more specialised ballet training? Although there are more choices post 16, bear in mind there will be an awful lot more competition for places, so good training now is very important.

 

If she decides to do her Senior Cert as well, then you could look at training post 18 - again a wealth of info on the site about training then.

 

Friends who are going through the education system in Ireland, highly, highly rate it, and as a dance career can be very difficult, I wouldn't underestimate the value of good qualifications.

 

Everyone on the forum is really helpful, so ask away if you have more questions. I hope this helps a little.

[balletbean]

Hi. Welcome. 

The best way to start could be to apply for a Summer School at one of the many available at Vocational Schools across the U.K. for this summer. Might be a tad late for some but worth a go. If not for next summer. 

Ballet West Scotland nr Glasgow.  

Tring (west of London approx) 

Elmhurst Birmingham 

The Hammond Chester

Northern Ballet School Manchester  

 

By attending one of these it is a great experience for your DD and also helps to ascertain the standard that your DD could be up against for a full time place. 

 

Fees for a full time place vary per school as they all offer something slightly different. Makes research sometimes rather challenging verging on frustrating. Demand is high across all vocational schools, for example 800 applicants for just 30 places at the English National Ballet School alone. As you are in Ireland you will either be U.K. or EU resident there is help in the way of a DaDa Award (Dance and Drama Award) for fees or part of, set up by the U.K. Gov. Not allocated per pupil but per school. It’s then up to the school of who they allocate the award to. Places are offered first after audition and then held pending DaDa award allocation. All very stressful. Someone else on the forum may be able to offer the full details of how the awards work in practise, as the only info about the DaDa is what I’ve learnt off this forum. We aren’t eligible due to our geographical location. 

 

Hope this littke extra helped. 

 

Ps. Example of some fees before any Bursary Sponsorship or DaDa.

Normally well buried within the websites. 

Elmhurst £30,000pa incl Full Board

ENBS £17,000pa excl rent & living    expenses

Tring £17,700pa

NBS £13,800pa excl rent & living expenses. 

 

As you you can see. They all vary. 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by balletbean

[Colman]

I'd talk to your ballet teacher to see if they can suggest contacts you can talk to, or maybe someone like the Irish National Youth Ballet or Ballet Ireland might be willing to put you in contact with some of their alumni/staff that have go on to/done training in the UK. 

[Colman]

Further, do make sure she's getting the best training available here. There are a number of youth companies around the country that give both classes and performance opportunities and various workshops and intensives. 

 

Associate programmes in the UK outside of London are much more affordable to get to, as a rule.

 

There is a dance course in Inchichore College in Dublin that a lot of transition year students seem to do - it's not just ballet, but it might be worth considering depending where you're based.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Colman

[TwoLeftFeet]

Thank you all so much for your replies.  There really is such alot of information out there and so much of it is complicated!

 

My dd is doing her Intermediate exam in May and is currently in a youth ballet in Dublin as well as doing her weekly classes.  She is currently doing 10 hours per week.

 

I'm in a complete dilemma then to know whether to send her for full-time training in 2020 when she is 16 going on 17 having done a dance year in lieu of Transition Year or 2022 when she is 18 going on 19 and having done her Leaving Certificate.

 

Have any of you been though this dilemma and if so, what did you decide to do?

[Harwel]

2 hours ago, balletbean said:

 

Ps. Example of some fees before any Bursary Sponsorship or DaDa.

Normally well buried within the websites. 

Elmhurst £30,000pa incl Full Board

ENBS £17,000pa excl rent & living    expenses

Tring £17,700pa

NBS £13,800pa excl rent & living expenses. 

 

Unfortunately, Tring fees including full boarding are closer to £34k.  This can be a bit lower if child decides to live in private rental but still looking at about £26k. 

[Harwel]

6 minutes ago, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you all so much for your replies.  There really is such alot of information out there and so much of it is complicated!

 

My dd is doing her Intermediate exam in May and is currently in a youth ballet in Dublin as well as doing her weekly classes.  She is currently doing 10 hours per week.

 

I'm in a complete dilemma then to know whether to send her for full-time training in 2020 when she is 16 going on 17 having done a dance year in lieu of Transition Year or 2022 when she is 18 going on 19 and having done her Leaving Certificate.

 

Have any of you been though this dilemma and if so, what did you decide to do?

Let her audition at the earliest opportunity so you have an idea of what it’s all about and see how she does. If she gets a place decide then, if she’s not ready to get in then best get full education first.  Don’t forget, education can be done anytime, dancing can not. 

[TwoLeftFeet]

7 minutes ago, Harwel said:

Let her audition at the earliest opportunity so you have an idea of what it’s all about and see how she does. If she gets a place decide then, if she’s not ready to get in then best get full education first.  Don’t forget, education can be done anytime, dancing can not. 

Thank you Harwel for your reply.  Yes, that is what I'm afraid of and as this is our first foray into this world I don't want to make the wrong decision for her.  Your advice is great to let her audition and let that outcome decide.

[Pups_mum]

Another possibility to consider, is that a number of colleges including Urdang, Bird and London Studio Centre run one year foundation courses. They will be more general dance rather than specifically ballet but might be worth looking into as then you would only be committing to one year in the first instance. I'm not sure about minimum ages or anything but just thought I'd suggest it as another avenue to consider. 

[balletbean]

1 hour ago, Harwel said:

Unfortunately, Tring fees including full boarding are closer to £34k.  This can be a bit lower if child decides to live in private rental but still looking at about £26k. 

Thank you. It’s so hard to find the total cost. ENBS quote £11k for cost of living as they are in London. 

[Harwel]

2 minutes ago, balletbean said:

Thank you. It’s so hard to find the total cost. ENBS quote £11k for cost of living as they are in London. 

 

Oh I know, it’s a complete mine field isn’t it!? 

[balletbean]

1 hour ago, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you all so much for your replies.  There really is such alot of information out there and so much of it is complicated!

 

My dd is doing her Intermediate exam in May and is currently in a youth ballet in Dublin as well as doing her weekly classes.  She is currently doing 10 hours per week.

 

I'm in a complete dilemma then to know whether to send her for full-time training in 2020 when she is 16 going on 17 having done a dance year in lieu of Transition Year or 2022 when she is 18 going on 19 and having done her Leaving Certificate.

 

Have any of you been though this dilemma and if so, what did you decide to do?

If your DD is truly focused on classical ballet the intake is immediately after their GCSE’s (16yrs). Other dance schools offering different genres as well as ballet are more flexible for their students age. Many after A levels (18yrs). 

 

It is a minefield but one to definitely to research. Keep an open mind and be prepared to take time to research as many schools as possible and listen to anyone with experience and knowledge. Academic teachers aren’t always the best ones to seek advice as their views whilst sounding supportive tend to be quite negative to those considering pre Professional Dance training/career. 

 

Good luck. 

[balletbean]

2 minutes ago, Harwel said:

 

Oh I know, it’s a complete mine field isn’t it!? 

I call it eye watering. 

 

Its so frustrating thst a University Education is still used as the benchmark for success. 

[Harwel]

6 minutes ago, balletbean said:

I call it eye watering. 

 

Its so frustrating thst a University Education is still used as the benchmark for success. 

 

Yes, success comes in many forms and ultimately, to me, comes down to earning a living in an enjoyable way that gives you joy. I’ve been many things in my life - dancer, accountant, reflexologist but I am happiest right now teaching Pilates.  My clients are shocked when they realise I have a law degree and am a chartered tax accountant - I think some people are happy putting others in a box that they understand.  

[balletbean]

11 minutes ago, Harwel said:

 

Yes, success comes in many forms and ultimately, to me, comes down to earning a living in an enjoyable way that gives you joy. I’ve been many things in my life - dancer, accountant, reflexologist but I am happiest right now teaching Pilates.  My clients are shocked when they realise I have a law degree and am a chartered tax accountant - I think some people are happy putting others in a box that they understand.  

Congratulations on your successes. 

Many also believe that children opt to dance as they have failed in the classroom. Far from it. They tend to be meticulous, dedicated and focused in both the classroom and studio culminating in high achievers throughout their career life. No matter how many paths that may lead. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you all so much for your replies.  There really is such alot of information out there and so much of it is complicated!

 

My dd is doing her Intermediate exam in May and is currently in a youth ballet in Dublin as well as doing her weekly classes.  She is currently doing 10 hours per week.

 

I'm in a complete dilemma then to know whether to send her for full-time training in 2020 when she is 16 going on 17 having done a dance year in lieu of Transition Year or 2022 when she is 18 going on 19 and having done her Leaving Certificate.

 

Have any of you been though this dilemma and if so, what did you decide to do?

Hello 2LF. As I am unfamiliar with the Irish education system, I am not sure about the feasibility of this - but would your dd have an opportunity to go back later in life and do her Leaving Certificate, in the event that she chose to go into full time dance training at 16? My dd's back stop is that we have an excellent local college that offers A levels up to age of 24 years without fees. In the event of something going horribly wrong (she started full time at 16 years) she would have this as a fall back. Also depends on dc attitude to education. Had I forced mine to take A levels I am pretty certain that she would have put in a lacklustre performance since all she wants to do is dance. And getting into a good Uni these days demands a very strong A level performance.

[TwoLeftFeet]

2 minutes ago, mnemo said:

Hello 2LF. As I am unfamiliar with the Irish education system, I am not sure about the feasibility of this - but would your dd have an opportunity to go back later in life and do her Leaving Certificate, in the event that she chose to go into full time dance training at 16? My dd's back stop is that we have an excellent local college that offers A levels up to age of 24 years without fees. In the event of something going horribly wrong (she started full time at 16 years) she would have this as a fall back. Also depends on dc attitude to education. Had I forced mine to take A levels I am pretty certain that she would have put in a lacklustre performance since all she wants to do is dance. And getting into a good Uni these days demands a very strong A level performance.

Thank you for your reply mnemo.  Yes, she could go back and do it if all went horribly wrong.  Just another thought since I don't know the UK system - are 'A' levels needed to get into a classical ballet course?

[balletbean]

2 minutes ago, mnemo said:

Hello 2LF. As I am unfamiliar with the Irish education system, I am not sure about the feasibility of this - but would your dd have an opportunity to go back later in life and do her Leaving Certificate, in the event that she chose to go into full time dance training at 16? My dd's back stop is that we have an excellent local college that offers A levels up to age of 24 years without fees. In the event of something going horribly wrong (she started full time at 16 years) she would have this as a fall back. Also depends on dc attitude to education. Had I forced mine to take A levels I am pretty certain that she would have put in a lacklustre performance since all she wants to do is dance. And getting into a good Uni these days demands a very strong A level performance.

Sounds like an excellent plan. Dancing exams carry UCAS tariff points anyway so they support other exams when applying to a University. A University Education has no age limit. Dance training in many genres however does carry an age limit. None of us (I’m sure) would want our DC to go through life saying “What if mum had let me”. I say “Go for it” otherwise there will always be “what if” lurking in the back of your mind.  It’s a long work life and plenty of time to retrain/diversify later on. 

[TwoLeftFeet]

1 hour ago, Pups_mum said:

Another possibility to consider, is that a number of colleges including Urdang, Bird and London Studio Centre run one year foundation courses. They will be more general dance rather than specifically ballet but might be worth looking into as then you would only be committing to one year in the first instance. I'm not sure about minimum ages or anything but just thought I'd suggest it as another avenue to consider. 

Thank you Pups_mum I didn't know about those.  Another strain of courses to add to my addled brain lol!  I'll check those out now

[balletbean]

15 minutes ago, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you Pups_mum I didn't know about those.  Another strain of courses to add to my addled brain lol!  I'll check those out now

Definitely well worth consideration. The only issue being that there is no funding available for these Foundation courses so you have to cover the entire costs yourself. 😳

[Picturesinthefirelight]

1 hour ago, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you for your reply mnemo.  Yes, she could go back and do it if all went horribly wrong.  Just another thought since I don't know the UK system - are 'A' levels needed to get into a classical ballet course?

 

I'm on my phone so apologies if the quote has gone wrong but no, A levels are not needed to get onto a classical ballet course.   A levels are needed to get into university (or a Level 3 btec which is an alternative more practical based qualification to A levels)

 

The only stipulation in England is that ifva student has not passed GCSE maths & English they have to re-take it. Dance colleges have had to facilitate this in some way. 

 

Some full time schools such as Hammond, Tring & Elmhurst allow the students to take 2/3 A levels alongside the first two years of their training so potentially your Dd could obtain the English/Welsh equivalent of your Leaving Cert. 

 

Many of the dance schools offer a qualification called the Level 6 diploma in Professional dance. If you start at 16 you graduate aged 19 with a qualification equivalent to a degree. It can then be topped up to a full degree by a further year distance learning course at Middlesex University.  

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Picturesinthefirelight

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TwoLeftFeet said:

Thank you for your reply mnemo.  Yes, she could go back and do it if all went horribly wrong.  Just another thought since I don't know the UK system - are 'A' levels needed to get into a classical ballet course?

No. My dd is doing a BA in Classical Ballet and the (academic) entry requirements were 5 GCSEs or equivalent at A* - C.