Harwel

Now in my 50’s having spent my whole lifetime in and around the dance world - mother ballet teacher, me dancer, friends dancers, son at vocational school (other son drama/musical theatre).  I do not have a moments time for any ignorant sole who denegrates the effort, talent, dedication or worthiness of any of the performing arts.

Family, friend or foe will get the full force of my opinion on that before I walk away leaving them to contemplate their utter stupidity. Calling dance a sport tries to engage the ignorant into acceptance but in fact it makes it far less than it is.  I admire sportsmen/women tremendously for all the same reasons I admire dancers but to then add in the added artistic requirements and sensitivities - dancers are rather unique humans. 

Hope this link works - looks fabulous! 

Indeed @Elliethe fees are eye watering - well beyond our reach without an MDS and the training in Europe is fantastic.  My DC auditioned abroad at 15 but was utterly freaked out by the prospect of living in a foreign country - I was quite amazed by his reaction as I trained abroad and thought it was as a huge adventure - he quite clearly did not share my view!! Horses for courses. 

2 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Even though signed up for the 3 year classical course, quite a few do leave after A-levels to do a dance degree elsewhere or an Academic degree.   

Yep, there is a little bit of everything going on.  Some leave to go into academic courses, some go to get further dance training elsewhere,  some get dance jobs after 2 years and some go into dance work after 3 years. Yet others go on to do something else entirely. Certainly not one size fits all. 

Doing 3 A’levels is doable for the very academic and equally gifted dancer - they would have to be incredibly focused and determined.  

Most dancers at Tring do 2 A’levels as it is important to get enough time in the studio.  In the year that have just completed their A’levels there were some fantastic results from the dancers.  I think it is harder for the dancers to get 3 A’levels than the MT or drama students just because the dance timetable is so demanding.  One student has just left the school after A’levels as realised they wanted to follow an academic career, but as they only did 2 A’levels is going to do an intensive year to get the 3rd A’level to get into university. 

I really cant answer the question re boarding/not boarding.  It would all depend on the personalities in the year group as to whether someone felt excluded or not, boarding can be tough and there is a camaraderie in that. In my DC year there is a day pupil and as far as I know mixes well with the boarders.  

As far as extra classes outside of school,  I think this would be madness - weekends perhaps but not during the week.  The timetable is incredibly busy and bodies and brains need some downtime.  Although at Tring there really isn’t much downtime, the first term is probably the easiest but it ramps up pretty quickly with rehearsals, choreo shows, cups, show rehearsals and assessments. 

The school had a glitch in their DaDa funding which effects them for 3 years - this will be the last year of that 3 year cycle (I presume they will reapply this year). In replacement of that they implemented a bursary scheme similar to that which they offer the MT and drama students.  They will and do offer funding help for the students they want, the amounts vary.  There is no upper financial

limit as in the DaDa funding.  

In the present 3rd year upper school only 2 students are left that came from lower school. 

Hope this helps

So sorry to hear about your Dh’s Health troubles @Picturesinthefirelight And @Snowflake.  What a very worrying time for you, hope you get answers soon and both are on the mend very quickly as a result. 

Nothing in life is a failure, it’s just a step on the path of success - your own personal success.  Far too much judgement of others in this world at the moment.  To suggest either failed is ridiculous. Getting into a professional ballet company, let alone 2 of the very best in the world, is only open to about 0.01% of the population (goodness knows really, but it’s incredibly small).

Claudia is her own boss, using her wonderful talent to help others, probably very happy to be back in her own country with family and friends and I’m sure earning more money and working when she wants to, away from the daily bitchiness and competition that is inevitable in a highly competitive ballet company.,  As for Miko, clearly a very clever lady and what an amazing thing to be a doctor! 

4 hours ago, Nicola H said:

Please put your Dunning-Kruger card  down  for a moment,  as all you  are doing is embarassing yourself and  demonstrating  where your  knowledge is  dangerously weak. 
 

What a completely unnecessary comment! 

@ArucariaBallerina - ignore such an unkind and inaccurate comment. I never understand what this persons trying to say half the time anyway - the words yes, the meaning no. 

Heartbreaking - signed and shared.  Looked such a beautiful boy, what a very great loss to you and your family. 

How fantastic!  Many congratulations to her. 

One of my dearest friends has completely flat feet.  She attended Elmhurst, had a very successful dance career, was a ballet girl in Phantom and was in cats to name but 2 of the many things she did.  She has incredibly flexible ankles and got a lovely line on point because of this, she could jump like a fiend - basically, it never held her back.  However, now in her late 40’s she gets lots of pain in her feet and ankles and has special orthotics.  Was this because of dancing? Would she be suffering now anyway? Would her feet and ankles still hurt even if she didn’t have flat feet? Know one knows.  I do know one thing, she would Always have chosen a dance career, NOTHING would have stopped her. 

56 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

Agreed, and it isn't always easy to find out as some schools don't always publicise their grad destinations in full. You're right, Tring does cover a lot of bases, but there are some other schools which might show a different picture. 

It's no good, for instance, if you are classically-minded, to go to a school where the vast majority of former students are now in MT or contemporary, and only the odd one or two are with ballet companies.

Yes it’s a minefield isn’t it?!  I just posted these results as I am aware of them but you won’t find it on any website. So many students start off wanting classical but through training realise it’s not for them or realise they won’t make the level they hoped to and would rather branch into something else - all adds to the difficulties for us parents! 

40 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

When researching schools and courses, it is always worthwhile to look at recent graduate destinations of the students who trained there, and see whether that fits with your chosen career pathway.

This can be useful but the information is often not easy to find and one year can be very different from the next.  So far this year Tring students from the dancers course have recieved offers from the following;

American classical company 

European classical company

Chrysalis

Matthew Bourne

Northern Ballet 

Cruise line 

Musical theatre in Germany

I’m sure there are still lots of things to be finalised and not all offers will be accepted  but it gives a rough idea of the broad range of training at Tring as students are receiving such a varied range of jobs offers. 

I am so,so sad by this dreadful news.  My deepest sympathy to Olivia and their gorgeous daughter. Such a lovely family and so dedicated to helping dancers.  Heartbroken! 

Well there’s a world of difference between LSCD and Central! Wouldn’t put the same dancer to both of those.  Sounds like the advice is general rather than specific to your dd. 

It may be useful to split the schools into categories such as;

Those that take from 16

those that that from 18

those that take from 16-18/19

Then break it down as to what qualifications each provides and therefore funding options and what qualifications needed to attend the course. 

Off the top of my head the following schools breakdown into the following dance styles:

LSCD - contemporary - 18 degree

Laban - contemporary - 18 degree

Rambert - contemporary/classical - 16-19

                  (unlikely to get classical job) degree

RCS - classical/contemporary - 16-19 degree

Central - classical with contemporary - 16-18 degree

Tring - classical and contemporary/jazz -16 but with added bonus of A’levels.  Diploma 

Northern - no knowledge

Hammond - MT degree at 18, but take at 16 and do A’levels (not sure on any difference on the courses other than funding) 

You then have your strict MT colleges 

Laine, urdang, performers, Bird, bodyworks, London Studio centre (they also have classical stream but don’t know if any got classical jobs - degree course from 18).  Think I’m right in saying that all the above MT colleges accept at 16 for diploma and 18 for degree, apart from LSC.

Visit shows, talk to people who have attended (both happily and not happily) go to open days. Work out best fit for your dd.  Listen to advice but don’t listen to prejudice - there will be plenty of the latter. Accept your 14 year old will feel very differently from your 18 year old and things will most likely change along the route. All of us who have children at vocational school will have a story to tell, good and bad. 

The standards your DD is working at are about average for the serious student. 

Good luck in your decisions and happy searching. 

3 hours ago, Anna C said:

University, Silver, to read modern languages.  ☺️ 

 

For medical reasons she can't now train full time, but she's taking her RAD Advanced 2 before Uni and also wanted to complete her time at CBA as she's loved it so much.  

Thats nice to hear Anna. So pleased she’s doing so well. 

32 minutes ago, Bluebird22 said:

Just thought I would share a little Just because you are favoured in one school does not guarantee a job beyond graduation. 

So true, but very hard for our impressionable and perfectionist young adults to see it that way, when in a time of stress and uncertainty. Very well done to your former student for keeping her head. 

19 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

So sorry to hear about these troubles. Speaking as a fairly recently departed - and now somewhat jaded and cynical - parent, I'm sorry to say that this situation is not all that uncommon, and you would find much the same occurring in vocational training everywhere. Some will sail tharough the whole thing and will have nothing but praise for the school, the training and the staff. Others, training there at exactly the same time and in the same class, will tell the opposite story.

 

The favourites (and occasionally also the moneybags overseas ones) get all the attention, all the extra coaching, all the support they could possibly need if they get injured or are suffering emotional difficulties; they are encouraged to enter competitions, they are handed principal roles in school shows, and are given opportunities galore.

 

The middling also-rans are pretty much ignored and are treated as cash cows, and corps fillers for performances. The ones who fall behind (for whatever reason) don't get the extra support and coaching they would benefit from, and really need and deserve. They are metaphorically thrown on the scrap heap and pretty much written off from then on.

 

There seems to be a culture among some staff of... well... not institutionalised bullying as such, but more of an attitude that the professional dance world is brutal, and these students need toughening up if they are going to succeed. It is a case of survival of the fittest, and it is the school's job to weed out the ones who are going to break, either physically or mentally. Some of the students are treated appallingly, yet they are afraid to rock the boat, to complain or make any kind of fuss, in case it jeopardises their position, either to continue training at the school, or that word will get out that they are 'difficult' and they will never get a job. The ballet world is a very small one. Nobody wants to stick their head above the parapet. They have too much to lose. And we are talking about young people under the age of 18 here, who may be living far away from home for the first time, and have no-one to turn to when they need help.

 

As parents we put our trust in these schools to do their best to nurture our young dancers, and we put our faith in the belief that the schools will take care of them and have due regard for their welfare and well-being.

 

I can't tell you how much it hurts to have that trust betrayed, and to have your young dancer's love of dance destroyed, and their aspirations and future career ruined. 

This is so,so true and it breaks my heart! 

Dancewise as in ‘in relation to dance courses’ 😃😃😃

Just ba aware, agents take a HUGE % of the performers income.  20+  % for commercials/TV and 15% ish for theatre work.  Outrageous really, as if the pay isn’t low enough as it is! 

The very best of luck to your dd.  A very sensible decision and her love of dance is still in tact. 

6 hours ago, Kat09 said:

Thanks Harwel - high alert is a horrible place to be especially over an extended timeframe - I hope that all settles quickly for your lovely son xx

Thank you! X

Thank you @Kat09 for sharing such a personal experience.  The dance world is tough and cruel and I am so sorry your dd had to experience it at its worst.  She is certainly not alone and with the support of a loving family she will again find her passion and regain her self esteem.  

I picked up a very distraught boy from school last week - heart breaking - I was all prepared to cut ties with dance on the spot but today he is back at school as he insisted.  I am on very high alert!! 

So lovely to hear your dd’s news @Jazzpaws.  What a great decision for her and great that she is so enthusiastic about her new path. 

My brother in law was a student at Purcell school and had to repeat a year.  He thrived and is a professional musician performing all over the world.  He says it was the best move he made.  Everyone different, not everyone’s personality type would take it as a positive move.  It depends WHY the person is being asked to repeat and as said above what are the alternatives?  Clearly they still think she has potential as she’s not being asked to leave.  I think in this country we are too hung up on doing things at a certain age or in a certain time frame - not all development follows the same path.  It sounds like the school want to assist your dd improve and get to the correct standard  so she can progress in her future aspirations. 

The bullying is another matter entirely and needs to be addressed without delay.