Child Benefit and DaDA

[CouldDoBetter]

My DD has received the offer of a DaDA for a Diploma in Professional Musical Theatre.

 

Apparently you cannot claim child benefit if your child is over 16 are in "advanced" further education but neither I, the college nor the HM Revenue and Customs knew if this course counted as "advanced".

 

Does anyone else on the forum know?

[KathyG]

My DS is doing a national diploma in professional dance and it is classed as further education and we are still getting child benefit I was told earlier this week that you could still get child benefit until the end of the course but haven't investigated further yet. He will be 19 in October so hope it will continue for a few more months.

[FelixGirl]

That's really interesting KathyG, I had the same question CoulddoBetter, and was inclined to think that we wouldn't get payments after September because apparently a National Diploma in either Professional Dance or Musical Theatre is ranked as an NQF level 6 qualification (equivalent level H - BA honours degree). Very good news if we will still get benefit!!

[KathyG]

We can't get student loans to help so we get child benefit!

[JulieW]

I think it comes under a rule about getting it while they're under 18 but still in full-time education

[2dancersmum]

I was under the impression that the diplomas and their study count as 'further education', hence the reason student loans are not available because student loans are only applicable to higher education. Further education means that you can still get child benefit (unless you fall foul of the new government assessments for it).

[Living the Dream]

I called HMRC last week to find out if the Diploma in Professional Dance still qualified my DD to receiving Child Benefit and they hadn't got a clue, so after reading their leaflet it said that will still pay Child Benefit for a young person aged 16, 17, 18 or 19 who is in full-time non advanced education at a school or college studying a National Diploma and that is what this qualification is. Fingers crossed they still pay this to my DD.

[KathyG]

I just looked on HMRC website Hurrah payments won't stop in October.

 

You can carry on getting Child Benefit for your child up until their 20th birthday, if they're in education or training that counts for Child Benefit. Education or training counts for Child Benefit as long as it's either of the following:

• full-time, 'non-advanced' education (for example 'A' levels)
  
• 'approved' training
  

Your child needs to have started, enrolled or been accepted for one of these types of courses before the age of 19.

 

On the courses listed it doesn't mention the course we're studying but we are doing A levels

[Mumofballetmaddaughter]

When my daughter was working towards a diploma (2006 -2009) it was a further education qualification and was classed as non-advanced as opposed to degree level which was advanced. I think from memory, child benefit was able to be claimed up until the 20th birthday if in non advanced education but you did have to reapply each year from 18. Not sure if the rules are still the same 3 years on though. Housing benefit was also able to be claimed if the student was aged 16 - 19 in full time non advanced education, living in rented accommodation for the purposes of the course and in receipt of child benefit. The benefit was based on the young person's income and NOT that of their parents/guardians. Again I'm not sure if this is still the case with all the changes but it is worth investigating.

[glowlight]

Like Mumofballetmaddaughter, my experience is a few years ago, but when I phoned child benefit and told them dd was doing a National Diploma in Professional Dance they looked at their list and said - 'National Diploma - yes thats eligible'.

 

I was never confident that they were correct, as I believe that National Diploma in Professional Dance is a higher level qualification than the National Diplomas other subjects - but who was I to argue?

[2dancersmum]

Just an update on this topic as we have been looking at claiming housing benefit whilst DD is in rented accommodation doing A levels and the diploma (on the basis that under 25s in further education are eligible). We have been told that DD is not entitled to housing benefit because the diploma is counted as 'advanced or higher education.' When we queried this we were sent a copy of a report from a tribunal (2010) from somebody at Bird College doing the Diploma in Musical Theatre, where housing benefit was refused as they ruled that it was indeed 'higher education' because it was higher than A levels and a 3 year course (like degrees not A levels). The ruling also declared that legally they believed that child benefit would not be allowed either. It did state that HMRC was a separate department and would make their own decisions but that legally students in further education were entitled to child benefit and not those in higher or advanced. So for child benefit we just have to wait and see but unless you are lucky and have a council that chooses to pay housing benefit regardless, it would appear that housing benefit to help offset accommodation costs is no longer an option.

[glowlight]

What a great shame. I always felt it was a grey area, but it is a shame it has been formalised by a legal ruling.

[spooky]

This seems like a lose-lose situation for those studying for diplomas then. I always thought that dada-funded diplomas were classed as further education and therefore child benefit was still paid whereas those studing foundation degree courses were higher education and while no loger able to get child benefit were eligible for student loans/grants. If diplomas really are higher eduation then they should be able to access the student loan system. It looks like the classification of diplomas changes to suit the situation but not to the student's advantage!

[glowlight]

On the plus side - if you haven't had a student loan to fund your dance training, it leaves you with the option to do a degree funded by the student loan scheme if you decide to return to education in the future.

[taxi4ballet]

This is a catch 22 situation isn't it?

 

If you don't get a DaDa, you don't qualify for a student loan, you can't get housing benefit, your folks lose child benefit, you can't live at home because you can't afford the travelling, you can't afford to live near the college...

 

It's the families with the least money who come off worst yet again.

[glowlight]

Actually its often those with a moderate income who come out worst. Those on really low incomes are eligible for help with living expenses if they get a DADA.

[taxi4ballet]

Actually its often those with a moderate income who come out worst. Those on really low incomes are eligible for help with living expenses if they get a DADA.

 

Sorry, I meant that there isn't much hope for the ones - like somebody at dd's dance school at the moment - who are offered several places but no DADA at all.

[glowlight]

Sorry Taxi, I see now what you meant! I agree that is so tough....so near yet so far.

 

For people in that situation I would definitely recommend trying again next year. I know of a few people who have been in that position but got a DADA when they auditioned the following year.

[JulieW]

But I wonder what's going to happen with DaDAs next year - isn't it all changing?

[FelixGirl]

Just an update.......I rang HMRC last week about Child Benefit for my DD (having received a letter from them asking for information about what she would be doing from September) and they told me that the National Diploma does qualify, so our payments will not stop for the time being - like you, Glowlight, I'm not going to argue!!

[JulieW]

They don't seem to get the difference between a National Diploma which is a level 3 qualification (same level as A levels) and a "diploma" which can be at any level, but in the context of some of the dance schools is usually a level 6 diploma. But, as you've said, I wouldn't argue with them if they want to keep paying.

 

We won't getting any child benefit after January next year, so I've given up thinking about it! At least I managed to almost get all three through full-time education (I'll have 2 in different years of sixth form)