Flexibility required for Y7 entry to vocational school

[AllAboutTheJourney]

Without getting into specific schools (as I am very conscious of the rules in terms of talking about certain topics on this forum), can anyone give me an indication of the level of flexibility that may be required for a boy trying to get a place at vocational school for y7 entry? 

 

I am a little concerned that this might hold my DS back (although he is working hard to try and improve what he can) and I would like to be able to manage expectations if he simply isn't anywhere near where he would need to be at this point in time. 

 

Happy for people to DM if easier - I fully understand (and agree with) the restrictions on discussing certain vocational schools publicly on the forum but the inevitable side-effect of that is that it is harder for those going to finals etc to share experiences/the waiting game as there has been in previous years. So do feel free to DM if you're in that position!

[Beezie]

I’d be quite keen to hear this answer too, but for girls.

 

My hunch is that it’s a sliding scale based on the other assets a dancer has.  
 

However, with dance going more towards the extremes of movement, I get the impression that it is a more heavily weighted asset than it was 20 years ago.  And since people with hyperextended knees are also usually naturally flexible (or appear more flexible due to leg shape), they probably tick two ‘asset’ boxes rather easily.

 

On the converse side, I keep in the back of my mind that less flexibility tends to pair with more strength.  It may not be appreciated in auditions at Y7, but ballet is also a bit of a long game. And strength will let a dancer perform longer into a career without injury.  I would also say that some level of flexibility can be ‘dialed up’ at any age.  I don’t know about yours, but my child hates flexibility exercises.  I know she is not at her full potential right now, but she could be better if she ever had the mind to be.  (I don’t really believe that you lose flexibility as you age.  I got to splits in my 40s just for fun, after never being able to get them as a kid.)

 

I also like to tell myself that maybe the pendulum swings the other way, with artistry and fast movement gaining popularity….but I don’t think that will play out in my child’s timeline.  I do feel like some of these Instagram Extreme Flexibility ooogles have reached peak, and some people are starting to think it is overdone.  Ditto for extreme hyper-extension.  There is a point where you start getting an anxious feeling worrying about the dancers leg as opposed to admiring a beautiful line.

[MissEmily]

So long as your child makes it through the first round, they will be examined by a physiotherapist and one of the things they’re looking for is the POTENTIAL for flexibility rather than their current range necessarily. 

[AllAboutTheJourney]

Thanks both. I agree with you @Beezie in terms of thinking that the overdone insta flexibility posts have had their day - hopefully!

 

My previous experience of this whole process was with a DD who is naturally very flexible and it wasn’t even something that crossed my mind going into finals tbh - I was more concerned about other things. 
 
But yes, he is through to finals and it’s a good point that they are measuring for potential flexibility @MissEmily - I guess I just have no idea if he has that good potential or not, I’m just looking at where he is now (which compared to the girls he dances with is really not on a par and we don’t know that many boys around the same level/age).
 

I suppose, though, that that means it’s out of my hands in a way, so no point overthinking it! 

[Doing Dance 1]

This paper from 2011 springs to mind.

https://www.academia.edu/4464722/Hypermobility_and_dance_a_review

 

‘Epidemiological studies of hypermobile dancers indicate that although students are selected for hypermobility when auditioning for vocational schools, they are not represented in the higher ranks of professional companies.’

 

 

RBS/ RB tested in 2004 with hyper mobility: students 97% - principals 0%.

 

Of course this would be interesting to see more recent figures but certainly food for thought.

 

 

Edited January 28 by Doing Dance 1

[Kerfuffle]

I think it’s very unlikely that those statistics from 2004 reflect the proportions of hyper mobility in dancers today. The lines that hyper mobility give go a dancer are visually  the most desirable in ballet. It would be the same as saying that there are no dancers with banana feet. These kind of physiques do need more attention in terms of developing strength but it’s possible to be a principal with them, even in RB. Yasmin Naghdi has sway back legs and Melissa Hamilton has high arches and hyper mobile knees just to mention a couple of senior dancers in the Royal Ballet. Pirouettes and jumps can be easier with flatter feet and straight knees but there is more to ballet than that. Flexibility can be worked on but hyper mobility and turn out are pretty much what you’re born with.

If that research is based on a much more serious end of hyper mobility (Ehlers Danlos syndrome) that is a medical issue. If it’s based on Beigton score that is different - it’s possible to score 7-9 and still only be marginally affected. My DD is a 7/9 but has a strong physique. I don’t think she’s unusual at her upper school stage of training, it just needs adequate care to build the support around the joints. 

[coniger]

On 24/01/2024 at 13:12, AllAboutTheJourney said:

Without getting into specific schools (as I am very conscious of the rules in terms of talking about certain topics on this forum), can anyone give me an indication of the level of flexibility that may be required for a boy trying to get a place at vocational school for y7 entry? 

 

I am a little concerned that this might hold my DS back (although he is working hard to try and improve what he can) and I would like to be able to manage expectations if he simply isn't anywhere near where he would need to be at this point in time. 

 

Happy for people to DM if easier - I fully understand (and agree with) the restrictions on discussing certain vocational schools publicly on the forum but the inevitable side-effect of that is that it is harder for those going to finals etc to share experiences/the waiting game as there has been in previous years. So do feel free to DM if you're in that position!

Hi AllAbout The Journey -

 

My DS got Into year 7 Elmhurst only able to do splits (for a second on one side only) and no box splits in 2018. That year he also made WL finals.

(he was only at Elmhurst for a year)

 

In 2021 he was offered a Year 10 place at WL - he couldn't do box splits but could do splits both sides but still not for long and he would get out of the position very quickly!

 

So that is our experience - he was never particularly flexible!

 

 

 

[AllAboutTheJourney]

Thanks @coniger, that's really helpful. My DS sounds similar although he is better at box splits than side splits for some reason - he isn't flat yet in either left or right side splits. 

Edited January 29 by AllAboutTheJourney
Posted too quickly

[Raquelle]

My dd really worked at her flexibility. When she applied to JAs year 5 she only had her right splits. By the time we got to the school auditions a year later, she managed to get all her splits...she worked really hard on her flexibility, stretching most days. So even if splits aren't there yet, i wouldn't worry too much. We find that flexibility reduces when she has growth spurts too so it's always a work in progress! 

[drdance]

On 25/01/2024 at 07:16, Beezie said:

 

On the converse side, I keep in the back of my mind that less flexibility tends to pair with more strength.  It may not be appreciated in auditions at Y7, but ballet is also a bit of a long game. And strength will let a dancer perform longer into a career without injury.  I would also say that some level of flexibility can be ‘dialed up’ at any age.  I

Just a note to say that flexibility and strength are not necessarily related in this way. Don't be confused with joint mobility versus muscular flexibility and muscular strength.  Dancers with high natural levels of joint mobility may find it harder to control - so appear less strong, but often, individual muscles or muscle groups are strong. Conversely, weak muscles can feel tight too, so strengthening muscles often causes them to feel more flexible.