Training for a short period in USA

[Kerfuffle]

Hi everyone. There is a remote chance that we might have to spend a couple of years in USA. My daughter will have just done her GCSEs by then, so facing upper school training. She is learning Russian style ballet at the moment as well as being a RBS SA. If we went we would probably be Southern California. I wouldn’t want to leave her in the U.K.  unless she was somewhere really secure (boarding of some sort) so I was wondering if  it would be sensible (and affordable)   for her to train out there while either living with us or not too far away? 

[Pas de Quatre]

This sounds a good option. A lot of training in USA is Vaganova based. There is a board similar to this, Ballet talk for dancers - members may be able to help you.

[Kerfuffle]

Thanks for your reply. I wonder if Balanchine style would be hard to pick up otherwise? 

[Kate_N]

As the teachers on Ballet Talk for Dancers say, ballet is ballet is ballet.  “Balanchine” is not a technique - it’s simply a style which tends to be connected with American ballet, but not always. When I’ve done class in the USA I’m always recognised as 

“English “ in style, but if your daughter were to train intensively in the States, she’d soon pick up the nuances of the style.

[Kerfuffle]

That’s true Kate N, although I think that she’d be facing stiff competition that might be tricky to keep up with  if she’s used to a slower style - American ballet is very fast. I guess the question is, would she be at a disadvantage? There are certain aspects of technique which are pretty different such as not putting the heels down in Balanchine in petit allegro. 

[Birdy]

I’m not sure where in Southern California you would be located. There are a couple of good Vaganova style studios in Orange County, and one that I know of in Los Angeles. There aren’t any Balanchine specific schools in Orange County, but there is a really good one in Los Angeles. If you are considering having her train in the US, I agree that the Ballet Talk for Dancers site is a great resource. You can search for Pre-Professional schools by location. 

[Kate_N]

9 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

certain aspects of technique which are pretty different such as not putting the heels down in Balanchine in petit allegro. 

That is not good ballet technique. It’s a modification made sometimes to accommodate very very fast petit allegro. But treat with caution any studio that teaches that as the way to do petit allegro.

 

Balanchine was a choreographer from the Russian tradition - he worked in a specific way, but it’s  a style, not a technique, in the same way that we note differences in style between Cechetti and RAD syllabi. But they are minor, and well-trained dancers should aim to be flexible in doing a combination or a choreography the way the teacher/choreographer asks.
 

It’s all ballet. 
 

[Kerfuffle]

Hi Kate yes I think it is a strange modification and definitely not taught here. My daughter is pretty adaptable, she trains in Russian and also English (RBS associates). 
 

Thank you Birdy that is useful to know. Do you have any experience of Californian schools?

[Beezie]

We moved in the opposite direction (US to Europe) but with a younger-aged dancer.

 

You have to be a little more careful finding a good school in the US.  All the schools tend to ‘glitz’ up their marketing, and it can be quite deceiving.  I recommend looking for a school that can show you a curriculum and clearly articulate the schedule per level.  Schools with an ‘a la carte’ program and ‘do as much as you can’ mentality tend to reward the kids who put in more hours.  This doesn’t always correlate with a feeling of fairness or achievement.

 

Also, be prepared to pay more money.  If I compare my daughter’s ballet in US vs Europe, I was paying $40/hr in US vs $11/hr in Europe.  This was before all the hidden fees.  US has fees for everything…registration, performances, tryouts, costumes, intensives, etc.  And quite a few dance schools have their own team or company….which also comes with more fees.  In EU, we only have one fairly modest show fee…at least for now.

 

If you are in an area with a professional ballet that has an affiliated school, I would definitely look into it.  You will probably find it has the best quality training for moderate cost….and is most consistent with what you find in UK.

 

As for style: Lots of beautiful ballet on both sides of the ocean.  The styles of ballet training aren’t that different.  I hear a number of schools say they teach a Russian style, but that is rarely the case in the US….or very loosely based.  Contemporary, Modern and Jazz in the US are quite different, but the skills translate quite effectively I think.  You might just warn your daughter that the popular moves and patterns will look different.

 

Lots of courage to you, and PM me if you have other questions.  Honestly, moving overseas with a child in dance made me quite nervous (and still does), as it is an activity where the training is somewhat specific to the culture of the country.  But at the same time, dancers benefit from being versatile….and what better way to be versatile than to train in another country?  I have to think there are cons, but there have to be pros too.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Beezie

[Beezie]

Oh, and dance Teams!  That is a whole separate discussion, and has become quite popular in the US.  Unless that is something you are specifically interested in exploring, you may want to look for schools that don’t over-emphasize their Teams.  (Team genre is rarely ballet.)  

[Kerfuffle]

Hi Beezie! We have watched Dance Moms with fascination but I think we’d give that a wide berth! 
 

Interesting to hear your experience coming from the opposite direction. The training does sound much more expensive than here. I think it would have to be a serious pre pro school to be worth it. I guess all sorts of schools might claim to be Vaganova but you really need someone who has trained there themselves for it to be genuine. Balanchine looks amazing and a lot of fun! Did your DD do this? 
 

 

[Beezie]

Agree with the comments above.  Balanchine isn’t really a teaching method.  As such, you really shouldn’t see a school claiming to teach Balanchine.  But Americans love the fairytale-esque ballets Balanchine made popular, so you will see a lot of those.  And a lot of Nutcracker.  (We are Nutcracker nuts, and many schools do a full length Nutcracker every year.)   And haha, now that I have been taught to spot the claw hands, I see those from time to time in some schools styles.

 

Some posters have mentioned American ballet being faster.  I don’t know about that.  I’ll probably insult someone by saying this but….  I think many US schools (even good ones) let their kids be a little sloppy on technique in favor of trying more fun moves like leaps and turns at a younger age.  And let me explain…. The US seems to start basic technique, leaps, turns and everything else very young and then develop and refine as the students get older.  Here in Europe, basic technique needs to be near perfect before the school even thinks about starting single pirouettes.  
 

So if I extrapolate that:  I suspect your daughter will really impress US teachers with fabulous technique….but may find herself dancing with girls who can whip out some pretty crazy turns.  But I also think any school would be quite interested in incorporating a student who learned in the UK.  I suspect there will be some natural curiosity, which should work in your daughter’s favor.  Americans tend to hold European ballet training in high regard.

[Kerfuffle]

I think there are some advantages to the American approach - that way the kids become confident and aren’t scared to try difficult moves. Turning can be scary if you’ve had to perfect everything just to be allowed to have a go. Also on the dance shows the younger children have very good flexibility which is like gymnastic training. I think Russian children often start with gym too. My opinion probably only though ! 
 

I get the impression that Americans love the Royal Ballet so perhaps they see it as very British to have a reserved polite style, it’s all part of our image as a nation. My DD had a couple of classes with Kathryn Morgan, she loved the British technique even though it is rather toned down. 
 

The claw hands are interesting - where did that come from? Balanchine did choreography for Broadway and Hollywood, I guess that explains the energy of his ballet - combined with the Russian expressiveness. My DD and I still love the NYC version of Nutcracker the best. I saw it when I was eight and it‘s by far the most visually appealing version - the sets and costumes are stunning. I also absolutely love the choreography - particularly Waltz of the flowers and Dew Drop, so musical! 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

‘On pointe’ may still be available on Disney and shows the training at the School of American ballet who follow the Balanchine style. They show how people trained elsewhere needed to adapt. SAB and NYCB are particular on this. NYCB rarely take dancers not trained through SAB.

Similarly, ‘strictly ballet’ (on YouTube) season 2 is based at Miami City ballet and one of the dancers they follow originally trained at the Vaganova and she discusses the differences between Balanchine and the Vaganova system. She initially found it strange and fast.

There are of course lots of others that do not follow Balanchine. You could check out YAGP California for good ballet schools.

 

 

 

[Birdy]

The way I’ve always heard it told is that more classically trained dancers have an easier time transitioning to Balanchine than Balanchine trained dancers do transitioning to more classical styles. The head of the Colburn School in Los Angeles was a dancer at NYCB and the kids learn a lot of Balanchine repertoire. For Vaganova, Marat Daukayev in Los Angeles is very well regarded. Maria Kochetkova trains with him when she’s in Los Angeles. In Orange County, Southland Ballet is super tied in with YAGP, but we know a lot of students who have left because the parent environment isn’t the best. Dmitri Kulev has produced a fair amount of successful dancers. ABT also has an affiliate school in Orange County. These are all schools with quality training and none of the crazy Dance Moms competition stuff going on.

[Ballet2101]

Just a comment, we have had kids from our Vaganova program who attend Balanchine based SI's over the summer and it takes months to revert back to their previous style.  The teachers absolutely hate when kids go Balanchine...even temporarily, unless they intend to dance at a Balanchine based company in the future 

[Kate_N]

I’d really recommend taking some time (a lot of time😁 ) to read Ballet Talk for Dancers. The pre-pro schools are arranged alphabetically, but the search function is pretty good. So you could search for the city/area you’re moving to.
 

one of the Moderators , VRS, is fully Vaganova teacher-trained at the Institute in St Petersburg, who teaches at a very selective vocational school. She is extremely knowledgeable. And there is quite a lot of discussion about Balanchine style on the board. It’s from VRS I got the phrase, Good ballet is good ballet.

[Kerfuffle]

So interesting to hear the observations you have come across about  the differences between Balanchine and Vaganova, Ballet 2101 and Mummy Twinkle Toes, I guess it depends on the age of the dancer training how easily they go from one style to the other too. 

 

Birdy those names are very useful thank you and also the info you provided Kate_N about Ballet Talk forum.

[Ballet2101]

If you plan to check out YAGP results as a measure of good schools as Mummy Twinle Toes has recommended, take the Outstanding Schools award with a grain of salt.  They tend to award that to schools with the largest presence or other factor.  Pay attention to the outstanding teachers and the top 12 in your DD's category.  If you look back you will see trends of certain schools showing consistently.  While I know that many belive that this is because the schools are focused on competition, it does give you a quick insight into the quality of training.

[Birdy]

And many good schools don’t participate in YAGP at all. 

[Kerfuffle]

Is there any real point in doing YAGP? Is it mostly for scholarships, getting seen or performance opportunities? Sounds like you get plenty of shows to pet gong in USA. I’m not sure I like the idea of ballet as a competitive sport!